Hotel Irrealismo discussion
Books Discussed
>
Life a User's Manual
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
ich lebe im wald
(new)
Jul 12, 2020 01:12AM
Probably my favourite director too. David Lynch pretty much got me into film.
reply
|
flag
Paul wrote: "Are they in alphabetical order?"Nope. They seem random, but they seem to have the kind of random-ness that the Knight's Move has, so it makes me wonder. I think one could search for each story (in Kindle) and if found, mark the chapter next to it. Since I have OCD, if I can't find an answer, I suspect I'll do that someday. :-)
Thomas wrote: "Is what in alphabetical order Paul?"I think he is referring to my post before which is asking about "Chapter 51, Valene (Servants' Quarters, 9) there are references to stories in a list of 179."
In my copy of the book that story list is headed "Alphabetical Checklist of Some of the Stories Narrated in this Manual". They are in alphabetical order as far as I can see.
Paul wrote: "In my copy of the book that story list is headed "Alphabetical Checklist of Some of the Stories Narrated in this Manual". They are in alphabetical order as far as I can see."That's the index or appendices. I am talking about Chapter 51: Valene (Servant's Quarters, 9). It's a list of 179 stories, some mentioned prior, some that will be in the following chapters.
Klowey wrote: "is there a meaning behind the order in which these 179 stories are "listed"?"
I've always just found it to be a handy reminder, but that's an interesting question, Klowey. And one to which I don't know the answer. Knowing Perec, there's bound to be some method behind it but it's probably undetectable to the human eye.
The list is split by the wheel device after sixty then 120 items. If the division were to be precise, there would be 180 items, but there are only 179. This echoes the missing chapter/move of the knight's tour (99 rather than 100). The final item is especially poignant and its position in the list no accident. "Lonely Valène putting every bit of the block onto his canvas". I can't help but think Valène is a cypher for Perec's feelings about his life and enterprise.
Interestingly, item 179 is one of those occasions where Bellos has made a subtle change to the text. "Le vieux peintre faisant tenir toute la maison dans sa toile" runs the original, the literal translation of which is "The old painter holding the entire house within his canvas". There's no mention of "lonely"...
I've always just found it to be a handy reminder, but that's an interesting question, Klowey. And one to which I don't know the answer. Knowing Perec, there's bound to be some method behind it but it's probably undetectable to the human eye.
The list is split by the wheel device after sixty then 120 items. If the division were to be precise, there would be 180 items, but there are only 179. This echoes the missing chapter/move of the knight's tour (99 rather than 100). The final item is especially poignant and its position in the list no accident. "Lonely Valène putting every bit of the block onto his canvas". I can't help but think Valène is a cypher for Perec's feelings about his life and enterprise.
Interestingly, item 179 is one of those occasions where Bellos has made a subtle change to the text. "Le vieux peintre faisant tenir toute la maison dans sa toile" runs the original, the literal translation of which is "The old painter holding the entire house within his canvas". There's no mention of "lonely"...
Perec clearly intended this chapter to stand out since it's the only one to be styled "The Fifty-First Chapter" rather than "Chapter Fifty-One". I'm sure Bellos talks about the significance of this at some point but I can't find the reference.
Sorry, Klowey - in trying to delete material irrelevant to the thread, I managed to delete your comment but I've saved a version of it by clicking back through pages then copying and pasting!
Klowey wrote: ‘I noticed the wheel too.
Since you mention translation, let me ask another question I've been wondering about. There is a lot of "passive voice" that could be stated more directly. I'll give two examples:
"points to a circular pond on which three toy boats sail"
could have been said:
"points to a circular pond with three toy sailing boats"
OR
"A broken pane has been replaced by a page of Detective on which can be read"
could have been said:
"A broken pane has been replaced by a page of Detective that reads"
Is the tendency toward passive voice Perec's, i.e. in the original French?’.
I've just found the reference to the "compendium" in the 51st chapter in Bellos. There are apparently "lines each of sixty characters and spaces" and "also, an acrostic, spelling out, from right to left the word âme" which is French for "soul". Bellos used "ego" as a substitute (the same number of letters). If you look at the text, "E" travels in the first sixty items, then "G" in the second sixty. "O" doesn't quite reach the end as item 180 is missing and becomes the second character of "lonely. Mind-boggling indeed! This would impose severe constraints on the translator in terms of voice and word choice.
Klowey wrote: ‘I noticed the wheel too.
Since you mention translation, let me ask another question I've been wondering about. There is a lot of "passive voice" that could be stated more directly. I'll give two examples:
"points to a circular pond on which three toy boats sail"
could have been said:
"points to a circular pond with three toy sailing boats"
OR
"A broken pane has been replaced by a page of Detective on which can be read"
could have been said:
"A broken pane has been replaced by a page of Detective that reads"
Is the tendency toward passive voice Perec's, i.e. in the original French?’.
I've just found the reference to the "compendium" in the 51st chapter in Bellos. There are apparently "lines each of sixty characters and spaces" and "also, an acrostic, spelling out, from right to left the word âme" which is French for "soul". Bellos used "ego" as a substitute (the same number of letters). If you look at the text, "E" travels in the first sixty items, then "G" in the second sixty. "O" doesn't quite reach the end as item 180 is missing and becomes the second character of "lonely. Mind-boggling indeed! This would impose severe constraints on the translator in terms of voice and word choice.
Well, we're not on the same page on this one...
I know that Steve and finished long ago while others are still reading. Do those still reading have any thoughts or comments they wish to discuss? Paul D. also read Bellos's brilliant biography of Perec. Did it bring up anything in connection with LAUM that you wanted to comment on, Paul?
I know that Steve and finished long ago while others are still reading. Do those still reading have any thoughts or comments they wish to discuss? Paul D. also read Bellos's brilliant biography of Perec. Did it bring up anything in connection with LAUM that you wanted to comment on, Paul?
The biography has quite a lot about the strategies that Bellos used in LAUM, well worth reading if you want that extra insight, but not essential to the enjoyment of the book itself
Yes, it gives some fascinating insights into the construction of the text. It all depends how deeply one wishes to go into things. As you say, Paul, it works perfectly well without knowing them. For those who dabble in writing of a Hotel Irrealismo-type nature themselves, it's an education.
:O Just finished LAUM. Wow. I feel turned inside out - and sort of speechless.
Let me read through all your comments tomorrow and process my thoughts.
Oh yes and, five stars all the way.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, Klowey. That's exactly how I felt, the first time I read it! I'm looking forward to your observations.
Paul wrote: "I'm glad you enjoyed it, Klowey. That's exactly how I felt, the first time I read it! I'm looking forward to your observations."Looking forward to it. Need to let you all know that my partner and I are still sick with COVID. We have that long-haul one, so never know from day to day what we will be able to do. Sigh. Thank god for books. They let you read them whenever you want. :-)


