Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

This topic is about
Antigravity Propulsion
UFOs / ETs / AREA 51 / ROSWELL
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Who or what are aliens? Are ETs real, fictional, interdimensional beings, paranormal apparitions, AI robots, or "all of the above"??


I think some skeletons of people six to seven feet tall may have been found. Those would seem like giants before the 20th century. Anything bigger is most likely an exaggeration.
I leave open the possibility that I could be wrong. There are still a lot of mounds that haven't been excavated. It's possible that there are giant skeletons to be found.
For some other information that is speculative but more scientifically grounded, I recommend some of these articles from Frontiers of Anthropology: http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blog...


My own theory is that these pre Adamic races gave us forbidden knowledge (forbidden because we were not evolved enough to put it to good use, but rather used the knowledge to perpetuate war and bloodshed).
They themselves were coming to an end, and knew that the earth in the future was the realm of those born of it, i.e. of mud (Adam). As the individual human existence was brief, savage and primitive at that time, those pre adamic races refused to reincarnate into such forms. Instead, when they died, they remained on the bardo (spirit world).
If you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead the bardo body has many attributes such as shape shifting etc. However the Book of the Dead states that it is important to resist the temptations of remaining on the bardo, as it will stifle the journey of the soul. But rebirth involves a forgetting of all that came before, and the choosing of a new vessel, either animal or human. I think many of those pre adamic races chose to remain on the bardo/spirit world.
There is a oft repeated 'fairy tale' about a repeated question given to humans by various fairies, concerning when and if they will be 'forgiven' and about judgement day. The answer is when a single drop of red blood flows through their veins. In other words, not until they re enter samsara, or reincarnate. According to Buddhism, enlightenment is not reached through the deva (god) or demigod realms, nor any other but human.
I think that some of these pre Adamic races, remaining on the bardo, are messing with us. This follows Vallée's lines of reasoning.

My own theory is that these pre Adamic races gave us forbidden knowledge (forbidden because we were not ev..."
Interesting post! Tell me more about Valle and his beliefs? I recall some old lecture online but I've never read any of his books. Do you know a lot about him and how he came to his conclusions?
Just curious here...
Thanks,
Irene
Happy New Year to everyone! :-)


I believe in private (according to the book I just read: Round Trip To Hell In A Flying Saucer: UFO Parasites : Alien Soul Suckers - Invaders From Demonic Realms--great title heh? :D) he is of the opinion that these extra dimensional beings are not necessarily benevolent.
I've been looking into this over the last few years since a friend channelled an 'angel' who invited me along on a Rapture event, prophesied stuff for me and said that my 'angel' was waiting for me to contact him too. When I declined things got ugly. Scared the crap out of me. Since then I've been searching for who or what that entity was. Have found many answers. Vallee is a favourite but I also looked into Keel's work, among others. My own thought is that some are benevolent, some malevolent and some couldn't give a toss about us at all. I also think they are among our gods, and demigods and in the spirit world too. Some call them djinn, among other names. I'm a bit partial to them--from a distance.

The more research I do, the more these entities seem to have a terrestrial connection than an alien one. I agree with some of the above-comments about them existing in the spirit realms. Countless experiences involve altered states of consciousness that have been repeated and controlled through observed experiments with psychedelic substances, remote viewing sessions, and out of body experiences.
In my current project, I'm exploring evidence that suggests some of these beings are parasites, manipulating humanity and feeding off of the energy produced by our suffering.
Little, I am going to look for "Round Trip to Hell..." It sounds very similar to the book I am working on, "Food for the Archons." Through my own personal experiences, I concluded that they were trying to absorb my energy through fear. Since then, I've come across a large number of sources that present evidence of it. Thanks for the reference and for sharing your thoughts!
If anyone is interested in reading my first book in the "I Am Human" series, it's free online at www.ServiceOfChange.com/IAmHuman


Also Dark Intrusions: An Investigation into the Paranormal Nature of Sleep Paralysis Experiences by Louis Proud (I have sleep paralysis and have had it since a young child, and yes there is a link between the phenomena and this condition.)
In the case of some of those remaining in the spirit world, as lower astral entities, yes I think they feed on fear and anger generated by those of us in the physical realm, and as lower astral entities there is and always has been, a blood connection too.

I've dealt with sleep paralysis off and on since I was a kid as well - which has obviously inspired my research. But it doesn't seem to affect me so much now, and I think some if that is attributed to meditation. I recently had an encounter and once I sensed it, I wasn't afraid. I knew what was going on and the experience ended. I really think we can find a way to overcome these encounters and hopefully starve them.
Thanks again for the book suggestions!

Re the feeding of fear, I like the Buddhist idea that if plagued by a lower astral entity you give it a humorous nickname, then laugh it away. Same applies with hauntings, you laugh in all the corners of the house. Therefore starving it of fear or anger, or any of the lower vibration energies.

Meaning, sometimes they are figments of clinically insane people's imaginations (i.e. not real, just imagined).
Sometimes aliens are are more like psychic phenomena (interdimensional beings that are not physical like us).
Sometimes they may be ancient beings who have remained on Earth in isolated regions or underground ala Bigfoot or other semi-human beings.
And sometimes they really are visitors and actual physical beings from planets AND timelines a long way from ours.
I believe the ultimate truth of the Universe, or rather the Omniverse/Multiverse or UniverseS, is one of infinite scenarios and that all realities exist...And I think this is what Stanley Kubrick may have been alluding to in the unfathomable final sequence of 2001: A Space Odyssey...
At least this is my thinking at this point in time.


I am not familiar with that aspect of Buddhism, but it makes so much sense! I love it. I think it gives more credibility to the existence of these beings and encounters, along with their intent to scare us and feed off of it. It also gives more hope in this struggle to rid ourselves of them.
James - couldn't agree more. Most likely we are dealing with more than one phenomenon here. (There are so many days where I am convinced it's all my imagination!)
Now I'm going to have to re-watch A Space Odyssey.
Thanks for the thoughts!

..."
Yeah, I feel very sure we are dealing with more than one phenomenon here, mate.
I understand many people want to reduce the ET debate to just one phenomenon (e.g. "they are just imaginary" or "they're all real physical beings" or "it's just paranormal apparitions") and that would certainly be easier for us as our minds hate the confusion and just want a simple single answer...
Interrelated to what are aliens is also what are UFO crafts.
In my opinion UFO's are also probably a multi-tiered phenomenon and is a case of ALL or MOST of the below in Brad Steiger's list.
However, I just hope it's not number 16 and humans are merely "property" of the ETs!!!!!!
Brad Steiger's 17 Theories Of The UFO Enigma -- http://www.rense.com/general67/ENIG.HTM
Sometime in the late 1960s or early '70s, Tim Beckley asked me to present my favorite theory of UFOs for one of his publications. I told my friend Tim that it was impossible for me to select one above many others, so I submitted 17 possible solutions to the UFO enigma:
1. They come from an extraterrestrial civilization: While it seems likely that the visitors have had Earth under surveillance for centuries, they most often choose to conduct their activities in secret, perhaps even misleading humankind and deliberately misleading us for some undetermined reason, such as one of the following:
* They are a benign species that follow a policy of noninterference in our planet's evolutionary development.
* They are largely indifferent to us as a species and dispassionately observe and study our planet's evolutionary struggles.
* They are in the final stages of conducting important tests that will determine whether they will destroy us, exploit us ruthlessly, or totally enslave us. It is this category of visitors who conduct human abductions and who have made secret deals with certain levels of Earth's governments - agreements that they may break with extreme prejudice.
2. Military Secret Hypothesis: The entire concept of alien spaceships, "invaders from Outer Space," was created by military intelligence to mask highly classified research being conducted at such bases as Area 51.
* Or -- The "aliens" are actually our own military scientists conducting secret maneuvers with highly classified aerial vehicles based on captured Nazi technology brought to the United States immediately after World War II in Project Paperclip.
* Or -- The crews of UFOs are terrestrial astronauts conducting secret military maneuvers with classified aerial vehicles based on alien technology reversed engineered from alien technology recovered in extraterrestrial vehicle crash sites, such as that near Roswell, NM in 1947.
3. The UFOs are products of a terrestrial secret society: Centuries ago, a secret society of alchemists developed an advanced technology, which they kept hidden in underground or undersea cities. This ancient society has been subtly guiding Earth's "elite" throughout history, and when it deemed the proper times, it provided certain "outsiders" with scientific breakthroughs. This mighty secret society only awaits the appropriate moment to conquer the outside world and enslave it.
4. They come from the Hollow Earth: Ancient secret societies, traditions, and folklore speak of an underground empire inside our planet. This underground world is the home of the Master Race, both feared and sought after by occult societies throughout world history. This shadow race has been responsible for the appearance of mysterious aerial vehicles and many of miseries that have plagued humankind.
5. A program of deceit and lies: A secret agency within the established government, allied with its counterparts in foreign nations, has created the UFO myth for its own nefarious purpose in bringing about a New World Order. Abductions, impregnations, and mysterious disappearances are all the sinister handiwork of those working for a One World Government - a goal which may have been assisted since ancient times by extraterrestrial intelligence.
6. Unknown terrestrial life-forms: Great numbers of UFO sightings may be explained by the existence of previously unknown, unidentified life-forms largely indigenous to the higher reaches of Earth,s atmosphere. The "sky-critters," the "sky fish," may be plasmic, electrical, nearly pure energy forms that have the ability to assume a variety of forms.
7. Astronauts from Atlantis: The UFOnauts are the descendents of an ancient civilization on Earth that developed space travel and set about colonizing other worlds at the time when their own terrestrial empire was being destroyed by cataclysmic forces wrought by their own superscience. From time to time, the contemporary Atlanteans return to visit their home planet.
8. Time Travelers from the Future: Our descendents from the future return to study the true destiny of humankind by using the past - our present - as a kind of living museum. They cannot openly declare themselves for fear of up-setting the linear flow of history and thus altering the future - their present.
9. Other Dimensional Visitors: The Visitors come not from a faraway world in our solar system or any other, but from an adjacent space-time continuum, co-existing here on Earth, but on another vibrational/dimensional frequency or level.
10. Psychic Phenomena: The UFO phenomenon is the result of some as yet unknown physical energy that can be activated by the psyche, the unconscious level of the human mind. This physical law or energy would not itself be intelligent, but it would be able to absorb, reflect, or imitate human intelligence.
11. Projections of human beliefs: The UFO enigma is a phenomenon of the collective human psyche that charges to reflect the prevailing belief structures of the time. The UFO constitutes a paraphysical phenomenon that is related both to the psychological state of the observer and the zeitgeist which enmeshes the observer.
12. Psychic need: Certain of humankind's basic psychic needs tap into psychokinetic and other paranormal energies and create images of wee people, holy figures, and other worldly beings. The familiar forms that these manifestations assume have been intrinsic elements in the human psyche since very ancient times, but they appear modern in that human experiences perceive them in the context of ideas that the conscious mind has acquired through acculturation.
13. Archetypes: UFOs and their occupants are quasi-real images created by the human collective unconscious. Jungian archetypes surface as the result of thought-field energies that are accessible to humans through dreams, meditations, and other states of altered consciousness. These archetypes may, in certain instances, be directed by highly evolved entities who seek to influence and guide human affairs.
14. The Magic Theater: Such paranormal machinations that we associate with UFO phenomena are the result of the "magical" manipulations of time and space that are performed by the entities we have dubbed "elves, fairies, devas," and so forth. These entities are paraphysical beings that have coexisted with us as a companion species and appear to participate somehow with us in an evolutionary design.
15. The Supernatural: The UFO intelligences are the same entities who are described in the scriptures of so many world religions as angels - both the messengers of God and the fallen armies of Lucifer. The entire UFO mystery may be the continuation of the struggle between the two warring factions of angels for the souls of humankind.
16. We are property: The UFO intelligences maintain an interest in our planet because they are literally the lords of the Earth, the creators of the human species.
17. The Reality Game: The UFO intelligences are playing a teaching game with humankind in which our concept of reality is being gradually changed. In the teasing fashion of a Zen riddle or a Sufi joke, we are being provoked and guided into a higher consciousness.


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Unfortunately, I often tend to lean toward number 16 as being a strong possibility. It's a big part of my focus for my current project. When I first started looking into this, I felt defeated and pretty helpless. But, fortunately, I don't think its as bad as it may seem at first. In short, there is hope!

If Number 16 is valid, David, then I say we use your country's vast military and blow these little ET suckers from here to kingdom come!!
Unless, of course, the US is in bed with the ETs in a secret deal, in which case humanity will have to rely on China's military when the Independence Day-scenario occurs :)

If I were to go by the various threads in this group, all of the 17 would be valid theories.
But the most logical to me would be 1 and 5.
one thing my simple mind has often wondered about is how are they breathing when in different atmospheres? do they not have lungs or other organs? how are their bodies so adaptable to our environment? in order for them to sustain life, what is their composition mainly? silicon?

If I were to go by the various threads in this group, all of the 17 would be valid theories.
But the most logical to me would be 1 and 5...."
I agree Lisa, but only with #5.



At a national gathering of astronomers on Wednesday, a Harvard University scientist pinpointed where interstellar civilizations could be thriving in the Milky Way.
Rosanne DiStefano of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics told a meeting of the American Astronomical Society that "a globular cluster might be the first place in which intelligent life is identified in our galaxy."
The clusters—dense bunches of solar systems—would afford the best opportunity for life to evolve and establish relations with nearby planets.
It comes a half-century after the kick-off of American academics' official Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI), and months after NASA's head of science told a congressional hearing that humanity was "on the cusp" of learning if alien intelligence exists.

I read the rest of the article, and part of it was this:
"By the nature of their formation, the clusters are old, about 10 billion years old, more than twice the age of Earth's sun. Bright, hot stars die young, and dim warm ones live long. A heavy concentration of low-burning stars could create a warm cosmic ambience nicely suited to liquid H2O.
The clusters' old age also would afford more time for the evolution of advanced organisms.
1. So, let's pretend...assume that there are advanced alien life forms in the multiverse...
2. The first life form on earth, as far as I understand, were microbes.
questions:
1. Is it possible that aliens planted microbes on our planet for evolutionary purpose? ...whether it was to grow humans or to experiment with the microbes.
2. Is it then also possible that these advanced aliens are also product of the same origin?
3. If this is the case, then there truly is no beginning...is that favorable to the timeless notion in quantum theory?
4. Does this explain who we are today? ...meaning, are we merely product of evolutionary microbes or do we have a spiritual part that is its own entity?
5. If that's the case, then did the aliens who "planted" the microbes do it in order to transform into a new life form and experience life on earth?
I could go on and on...There was a time where I'd consider these questions bizarre and ridiculous, but this group has helped me realize that bizarre questions can sometimes be closest to the truth ;)


I'll check it out, thanks!

As conspiracy theory "lore" goes, Hollywood is controlled by the elite/ruling class. If that is true, and these people are trying to keep us in ignorance, then why are these movies planting the seed in our minds that what we have been told might not be true?
1. Are we being misdirected - told to look at one exciting concept while hiding another?
2. Are we simply being lied to?
3. Or do they really want to gradually get people accustomed to this concept?
Of course, it could simply just be a movie about a popular fictional topic as well - but what fun would that be???

Reading books and articles online is great, but you can find sound arguments for pretty much any theory or debunking...so at the end of the day, when I've exhausted my ability to find valid material, I'm often left just as confused about the truth as when I started.


Agreed, those two guys are great examples of balanced investigators. I like how they both say that they "just do not know for sure" about virtually anything and they also play the Devil's Advocate against themselves at times. It's a more honest approach and makes them infinitely more credible as it reflects what true journalism should be.

Lisa - it is so tough trying to weed through everything. You're right - there are excellent arguments for all sides of an issue and that can be overwhelming. In the end, my own experience comes into play, along with my intuition. If it resonates, and there is corroborating testimony from first-hand accounts that mirrors my own experiences, then I am more inclined to subscribe to it.


Aliens are not ET beings but rather human beings who originate from Earth. We are the ancestors of aliens and they are transhumans or post-humans from the future who have time travelled back into their past (to our present) to alter their past as something went wrong in their evolution...



You're right.
Oh no...I made a fatal mistake...Men In Black are a comin' for me!
So now I can answer your question...
If your present was apocalyptic and your species were dying and running out of time to survive and with no hope whatsoever, you'd risk altering your past via time travel (even if it risks extinguishing your existence).


So that would also tie in with the school of though that says flying saucers are all man-made at the likes of Area 51.
However, as I mentioned in my book Antigravity Propulsion, even if these craft and beings inside them are all man-made, it still doesn't discount they are ET-inspired as the craft could have been reverse engineered...

I'm currently reading Graham Hancock's "Magicians of the Gods." (Excellent so far) - but he has always advocated that there was an advanced society here on Earth 12,000+ years ago that was wiped out by a celestial impact about 12,800 years ago. Our earliest history coming out of Mesopotamia is actually the re-emergence of the past civilization.
In "Magicians," Graham is starting to make connections to Atlantis, which was supposed to be incredibly advanced. Michael Tsarion claims that Atlantis was founded by ETs. Others claim that the survivors of Atlantis are responsible for re-introducing culture & technology to civilization, and have had a hand in our evolution all along. I did 2 podcasts on these topics over the past few months:
http://www.serviceofchange.com/are-we...
http://www.serviceofchange.com/proof-...
With that said, I often wonder if they are not aliens but an Earth-based species that has become highly evolved. The Greys very well could be AI drones. I often wonder if the book "The Time Machine"The Time Machine is an accurate representation of our current existence. The surface race had to escape cataclysm so they hid underground and evolved into 2 classes: The elites and the drones. The Elites evolved psychic control over the drones and manipulated the dreams of the remaining humans on the surface. At feeding time, the drones would go to the surface and abduct some of the population to bring to the underworld... Definitely has some correlating points!

Hey Dennis - you may wanna check out the following thread on our reality possibly being a computer simulation:
Could the matrix be real? https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...?
Books mentioned in this topic
They Are Already Here: UFO Culture and Why We See Saucers (other topics)Return to Magonia: Investigating UFOs in History (other topics)
Beyond UFOs: The Science of Consciousness & Contact with Non Human Intelligence (other topics)
Ancient Aliens: The Official Companion Book (other topics)
The Real Cowboys & Aliens: UFO Encounters of the Old West (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Nick Redfern (other topics)Steven Spielberg (other topics)
Grant Cameron (other topics)
Mark O'Connell (other topics)
J. Allen Hynek (other topics)
More...
What's the story behind these supposed giant skeletons, Janith?