Reading the Detectives discussion
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The Black Tower
Archive: PD James Challenge
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May 2020 - The Black Tower by P.D. James - SPOILER Thread
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I can say firsthand, I have not been treated with humanity by the cops even when I told them I was disabled.
I do call them on occasion, because realistically, if I have a problem, I can get in more trouble and get arrested myself (I have before), if I deal with it on my own. Right now I’m under threat of getting attacked by one of my neighbors, and the cops can’t or won’t do anything, because the technical details are that he said to his wife in an argument, “I’m gonna f*** him up,” which I heard and he saw me and KNEW I heard, rather than him coming at me, or holding a weapon, or saying it to me personally.
I haven’t seen them or heard them since Saturday. I called the police that morning when they were having a loud argument which woke me up. The reason he wants to attack me is because I’ve been reporting the noise from their apartment to the landlords, which I actually did rather than calling the cops. Like I said, grey areas. Problem neighbors, but since I don’t live in a mansion, there’s little the can or will do.
Another Dalgleish mystery that I thoroughly enjoyed with regard to all the pieces of the puzzle coming together, coupled with James’ ability to convey a sense of place - particularly if that place is bleak and coastal!There’s often a bleak religious perspective to James’ writing that resonates with the locations. In turn this is reflected in Dalgleish’s coldly fastidious nature. This nature involved a religious upbringing, the faith side of which his fastidious intellect has rejected, while retaining a sensitivity to others feelings, and a related set of values. All this no doubt reflects James’ own views, which chimed with the times in which she lived.
Generally James tells us rather than shows us that Dalgleish is a poet. In as much as we learn about his nature I assume that there would be a reflective and sensitive quality to his poems ... to the ‘Invisible Scars’ from life that we bury in our psyche.
That's an interesting point about Dalgleish as poet, Nick. I'm someone who's struggled to see him writing poetry, especially for public consumption. I wonder to what extent he'd write something that was self-revelatory given his almost pathological sense of privacy? In the world of the books, he's constantly coming into contact with strangers who are familiar with his writing, something I'd have thought he'd hate.
RC - Writers inevitably reveal something of themselves, including P. D. James, and those writing posts about her books! I agree that Dalgleish values his privacy and so, for the reasons you say, it seems surprising that he publishes his poems. Of course, as the linguist Widdowson wrote, “It is the nature of poetry to be ambiguous”. Perhaps Dalgleish would feel safely private as a result. But, I think it is also true to say that poetry uses words to express what lies beyond, and deeper than words and so, like music, can be even more revealing of our inner nature.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I wonder to what extent he'd write something that was self-revelatory given his almost pathological sense of privacy? "There is an interesting reference to his poetry in the next installment, Death of an Expert Witness. It shows how he appears cold, removed, analytical in his approach to solving a crime, but that his feelings run deep - even about the crime he is working to solve.
Looking forward to that next instalment, Elizabeth...
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Judy wrote: "I remember there was a short poem by him in one of the earlier books (the second one?)"Ha, I must have missed that! Interesting that Elizabeth notes we'll hear more about his poetry in the next book.
I was assuming that James was a) a bit in love with Dalgleish so was giving him attributes she admires - a bit like Dorothy L. Sayers with Wimsey. And b) using the poetry to round out his personality and give him 'hidden depths'.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Interesting that Elizabeth notes we'll hear more about his poetry in the next book."I don't want my comment above to be an exaggeration. It is just one line regarding his having published poetry, but I found it insightful.
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Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I don't want my comment above to be an exaggeration. It is just one line regarding his having published poetry, but I found it insightful."Just got to that bit, Elizabeth: it *is* interesting in terms of James' intention for the character but I still find it unconvincing a) that his police colleagues read his poetry (hardly anyone reads poetry) and b) that he should write so obviously and revealingly about a recent case and his emotional response to it.
RC - I agree with both:a) Sadly true.
b) My experience of modern poetry is that it typically involves a synthesis of multiple sources of experiences, impressions, inventions, concepts etc. hopefully making a coherent whole. That is quite apart from it being impossible to imagine Dalgleish wanting to reveal his feelings in such a way, or show such insensitivity to those connected with the case.
I've just finished this, I'm running a bit behind with this series as I'm struggling with James at times. The books seem very slow to me, and once we knew who the murderer was and why, I didn't really need another lengthy 'Dalgliesh in jeopardy' section.I liked the twist of using the pilgrimage for criminal purposes, as I was thinking on the lines of the inheritances and the solicitor chap. I found I muddled some characters in this - Ursula/Grace and Maggie/Millicent/Dot - I got them straight in the end, but for ages they didn't seem to have enough to distinguish them.
Not my favourite, I'm going to read on though.
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I think I forgot to mention earlier that I have visited Lourdes, while inter-railing as a student many years ago, and found it a very strange place - I remember walking round the small town for a "stations of the Cross" service.
Reading the series a bit out of order, I am just getting to this one now. I probably would have felt that it was long if I had read these in order, but after suffering through 700 page paperweights, this practically felt breezy! James is certainly thorough in her depth of characterization, but often times it feels like its more about showing off her literary skill than actually adding anything to the story. I end up not remembering half of the characters (or their names) or why they are there in the first place.The final chapter was just ridiculous, and felt very incongruous with the rest of the book. I don't know why she feels the need to always have these hugely climatic showdowns with the killer. Perhaps she was envisioning TV adaptations, which often add this element to make it more entertaining? But of course real police work is largely much more mundane.
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An awful lot of authors seem to do this - there are several writers where, as soon as their hero/heroine goes along to meet someone near the end, you just know that this will turn out to be the killer and they will find themselves in deadly danger!
Judy wrote: "Tara wrote: "The final chapter was just ridiculous, and felt very incongruous with the rest of the book. I don't know why she feels the need to always have these hugely climatic showdowns with the ..."Definitely more of a thriller trope than what you would think of as a typical murder mystery. I think she has at least 3 books I can think of where there is a hostage situation. Not likely!
Reading the Detectives
Books mentioned in this topic
Death of an Expert Witness (other topics)An Unsuitable Job for a Woman (other topics)
The Black Tower (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Curtis Evans (other topics)Curtis Evans (other topics)
The problem is, cops aren’t “bleeding hearts” enough in real life, except where CERTAIN segments of the population are concerned (I’m on disability and am lower income, so I fall into one of the sections they’re not as “bleeding heart” about), so while I agree with Roman Clodia, that I’d like to see more compassion, I’d rather see it in real life first before it’s celebrated in literature/film/tv/etc, like in Patterson’s books, or every cop show on US television. British ones tend to be a bit deeper and even if the cops are more knight-like on British tv, the other characters are at least given humanity.