Buddy Read - Eight Perfect Murders and the Eight Books Within

[Lisa, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "I know we are only four books in but how about reasons why the “perfect” murders did not work

1. Smart detective [spoilers removed]

2. Make sure your patsy has no alibi[spoilers removed]

3:. Kno..."

Nancy, great observations, I love it!

[Lisa, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "While a perfect murder could be any a person gets away with, the first four books make them look like something else...
[spoilers removed]

I wonder if the “accidental” trend will continue"
Me too. It's certainly a great cover for murder to (view spoiler)[ not look like a murder at all. I love the ABC Murders' plot. It's really genius - such a calculating killer. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Half way through Malice Aforethought and I don’t think Madeline is a rich as everyone thinks

[Lisa, Moderator]

Finally starting Malice...

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

I just finished The Drowner. Loved it!! (view spoiler)[if her sister had not intervened it would have been the perfect murder because there was no bruising or broken bones (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri wrote: "I just finished The Drowner. Loved it!! [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Yes! And I love the no footprints element... (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Sheri wrote: "I just finished The Drowner. Loved it!! [spoilers removed]"

I quite agree with your spoiler

[[deleted user]]

Nancy wrote: "Half way through Malice Aforethought and I don’t think Madeline is a rich as everyone thinks"

Alas, I was mistaken.

[[deleted user]]

I did not realize that Malice Aforethought was loosely based on Herbert Armstrong (1920) with some elements of Dr Crippen (1910)

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "I did not realize that Malice Aforethought was loosely based on Herbert Armstrong (1920) with some elements of Dr Crippen (1910)"

I was going to post this exact thing. :) I didn't know this until recently either.

Sometime we're our own worst enemy.

[[deleted user]]

I believe we are supposed to sympathize with Edmund and dislike his wife, but I couldn’t wait for Edmund to be caught. Their marriage was a marriage of convenience.. his reason was to enter “society” and hers to leave her parent’s home. His wife was willing to divorce under certain conditions.

[Rosina]

This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?

[[deleted user]]

Rosina wrote: "This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?"

Not at all.

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "I believe we are supposed to sympathize with Edmund and dislike his wife, but I couldn’t wait for Edmund to be caught. Their marriage was a marriage of convenience.. his reason was to enter “societ..."

I didn't like Edmund either.

[[deleted user]]

Sheri wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I believe we are supposed to sympathize with Edmund and dislike his wife, but I couldn’t wait for Edmund to be caught. Their marriage was a marriage of convenience.. his reason was to..."

How heartless for a husband (as well as a doctor) to (view spoiler)[ to give your wife morphine in increasing doses and then “show” her how to administer It and where it’s kept...then after her death to say she was not a bad wife, Really? (hide spoiler)].

[[deleted user]]

Since the narrator was Edmund, I doubt we readers got an accurate picture of the wife and villagers. I believe Edmund was only nice enough to keep his practice running. A question, do you think the villagers really liked Edmund or that Edmund being so well liked was only in his mind?

[Rosina]

Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?"

Not at all."

Great...will start The Red House....

[[deleted user]]

Rosina wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?"

Not at all."

Great...will start The Red House...."

You can get it on Hoopla

[Rosina]

Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?"

Not at all."

Great...will start The Red House...."

You ca..."

Thanks so far the only one I cant find is Deathtrap...

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Not a big fan of The Red House Mystery. I like the title but (view spoiler)[I think part of my non like is because of the weird relationship between his self-styled Holmes and Watson. It's like there was no intellectual depth to their thinking. At first I thought it was fun but it rapidly lost its charm and took away from the story for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

Rosina wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Rosina wrote: "This is so neat wish I had found it earlier....is it too late to join in for the next book?"

Not at all."

Great...will start The Red Hous..."

Welcome, Rosina! I was able to find Deathtrap at my library, but, it's in short supply. I think it's available on Amazon, too, if you are interested in actually purchasing it.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I believe we are supposed to sympathize with Edmund and dislike his wife, but I couldn’t wait for Edmund to be caught. Their marriage was a marriage of convenience.. his reason was to..."

Yes, he was just dreadful. It was uncomfortable to be in his head. And with none of the fun or feeling of rooting for him as I felt with anti-heroes such as Tom Ripley.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "Since the narrator was Edmund, I doubt we readers got an accurate picture of the wife and villagers. I believe Edmund was only nice enough to keep his practice running. A question, do you think the..."

That is a great question. He was such an unreliable narrator, and completely delusional.

[Lisa, Moderator]

After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bogged down with reiteration...but they didn't exactly drag. Some thoughts: (view spoiler)[

Dr. Bickleigh - what a completely horrible person. At first I imagined he would flesh out as a sympathetic character, and I was surprised when his abused husband persona was belied by his assault of Gwynyfryd. The way he changed his opinions and assessments of, and attitudes toward, all others depending on his needs and circumstances really underscored what a psycho he was. Also interesting that he repeatedly characterized Madeleine as sexless and above the baseness of physical involvement, even at the heart of his infatuation with her. Madonna/whore complex for ol' Edmund?

Julia - what was in this relationship for her? Sounds like it was never even consummated, and also, Edmund was below her station. Was it just the desire to avoid being a "spinster"? Was she really a bad person, or was her character distorted for the reader by Edmund's self-serving perceptions?

The townspeople - all pretty horrible too. The way they talked out of both sides of their mouths, and dragged each other through the mud while prefacing each awful statement with disclaimers that are meant to attest to their wonderful manners and proper natures is awful and quite funny.

The crimes - I had a bit of trouble following towards the end. During the interviews and trial, I thought the text became a bit dense and clinical. I took away that Madeleine and Mr. Chatford, having been warned by the police, never ate the sandwiches and were never indeed sick. I noticed the mention of typhoid in Dr. Bickleigh's lab, but I didn't think that he actually poisoned Madeleine's husband Denny; rather that Denny became ill as a result of the frequently mentioned sanitary issues at their house. Meaning that Edmund swung for the one crime that he didn't actually commit. Is this what others took away? Or am I interpreting incorrectly?

A clever and fun read. I just couldn't wait for Edmund to get his comeuppance. (hide spoiler)]

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "Since the narrator was Edmund, I doubt we readers got an accurate picture of the wife and villagers. I believe Edmund was only nice enough to keep his practice running. A question, do you think the..."

My thought is that people felt sorry for him and he mistook it for more. What I can't figure out is how he got all the women to like him.

[[deleted user]]

Lisa wrote: "After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bogged down wit..."
hope you had a wonderful family vacation.

(view spoiler)[Julia was 35 and her choice was to be married or keep house with her sister and drunk father. I think she was distorted by Edmund’s perception..look how quickly his opinion of his mistresses changed.

I don’t know how Edmund could be convicted of killing Denny by poisoning since Denny did not eat either sandwich. They could have convicted him on attempted murder due to what occurred in Denny’s bedroom. Edmund was doing to experiments in one Petri dish so maybe that had something to do with the verdict or maybe the writer left something out of the story. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Sheri wrote: "Not a big fan of The Red House Mystery. I like the title but [spoilers removed]"

I liked the mystery part (view spoiler)[ mistaken identity (hide spoiler)] but I did not particularly care for the two “detectives”. Author trying to hard to make them clever and witty.

[Rosina]

Lisa wrote: "After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bogged down wit..."

Welcome home...home you had good weather and a fun time...its so hard at times to read on family vacation...

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Since the narrator was Edmund, I doubt we readers got an accurate picture of the wife and villagers. I believe Edmund was only nice enough to keep his practice running. A question, do..."

I know! It rather shocked me to see him having any success in his philandering.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "Lisa wrote: "After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bo..."

(view spoiler)[I think it has to do with the sanitation issues at The Hall. It was mentioned repeatedly, and typhoid fever spreads through contaminated water or food. And it would be poetic justice, since he actually committed no crime in that direction. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

Rosina wrote: "Lisa wrote: "After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bo..."

Thank you! It was a really good time - visited the Northwoods of Wisconsin, and we had perfect weather!

[[deleted user]]

A few chapters into “The Secret History”. I understand bold typing proper names and some of the Greek words but what I don’t get is bolding random words throughout the narrative or two letters in a word. This is not the first book I read that did this.

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "Sheri wrote: "Not a big fan of The Red House Mystery. I like the title but [spoilers removed]"

I liked the mystery part [spoilers removed] but I did not particularly care for the two “detectives”...."

That's it exactly. I couldn't think of what I wanted to say in my original spoiler post about it but "too clever" sums it up.


Nancy wrote: "Lisa wrote: "After falling woefully behind last week because of a family vacation, I finally finished Malice Aforethought. I found it intelligent and creative, with a few spots that seemed a bit bo..."

agree about Denny.

[Lisa, Moderator]

I'm finally starting The Red House Mystery. After some bewilderment at all of the characters being introduced, I made myself a list and I'm doing much better now ... LOL

[Rosina]

Lisa wrote: "I'm finally starting The Red House Mystery. After some bewilderment at all of the characters being introduced, I made myself a list and I'm doing much better now ... LOL"

I have been reading it at night and find I am getting confused....might have to start a list as well

[Lisa, Moderator]

Just finished Red House. It was a fun mystery, and I liked the partnership between Bill and Antony. (view spoiler)[ I was thinking from the beginning that the dead man was actually Mark and there was no Robert, after a few mentions were made about their resemblance. But I sort of cast that away, figuring that the body would have to be properly identified, and that such a switch wouldn’t work. I struggled with some of the intricacies of the attempted deductions the pair was making, and got a bit confused several times. I would also like to know what Cayley’s fate was, at the end. Did he kill himself? Or did he run? (hide spoiler)]

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Lisa, (view spoiler)[ I think he ran. I can't imagine he'd have the where with all to do himself in.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

I like book discussions because we all don't enjoy the same thing. Makes reading and discussing more fun than reading without discussing.

I love Winnie the Pooh because the writing is so witty but for me that wittiness (is that a word) was too much in this book. If it had been longer than 200 pages I'm not sure I could have finished it. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri wrote: "Lisa, [spoilers removed]

I like book discussions because we all don't enjoy the same thing. Makes reading and discussing more fun than reading without discussing.

I love Winnie the Pooh because ..."

Sheri, I agree - I really enjoy these discussions too. Although I enjoyed them, I can definitely see your point on the dense banter. And I’m in the same court with Cayley, too.

[[deleted user]]

I just finished watching Joan Hickson playing Miss Marple in Sleeping Murder. Miss Marple mentioned Dr. Crispen.

[Lisa, Moderator]

About 50 pages in to The Secret History. I like it so far. I'd better get cracking - gotta polish off this and Strangers by the 31st!

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Lisa wrote: "About 50 pages in to The Secret History. I like it so far. I'd better get cracking - gotta polish off this and Strangers by the 31st!"

Hope you don't have to rush through Strangers on a Train. It's the best one! :)

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri wrote: "Lisa wrote: "About 50 pages in to The Secret History. I like it so far. I'd better get cracking - gotta polish off this and Strangers by the 31st!"

Hope you don't have to rush through Strangers on..."

I’m so excited for that one. Luckily, I’m a fast reader. I try to never rush through a book, I’m sure I’d miss something :)

[Lisa, Moderator]

Has anyone read Tana French’s The Likeness? I think it may have borrowed heavily from The Secret History.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Anyone have thoughts on The Secret History? It’s very long, but it’s really good. I am glad I’m reading on my library app, as I have to look up words here and there, and seek occasional translation. I keep picturing Phillip Seymour Hoffmann as Bunny, and wishing he would still be with us for a movie version of this. (view spoiler)[ I’m also wondering how anyone liked Bunny, ever. And I’m understanding more than one motive for his murder, but wondering what is all going to take place before it occurs, because I’m not even halfway through, and it already feels imminent. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Lisa wrote: "Anyone have thoughts on The Secret History? It’s very long, but it’s really good. I am glad I’m reading on my library app, as I have to look up words here and there, and seek occasional translation..."

Henry and Bunny went to the same prep school and I believe their parents used to know each other. I think the group kept Bunny around because the Julian’s class was so small and he made them feel smarter/superior. There was more than one motive, Henry had two (view spoiler)[ the farmer’s death and Bunny’s blackmailing (hide spoiler)].

Richard relayed a statement Camilla made about Bunny...Bunny did not suffer from a schizophrenic break or a total change of personality but that various unpleasant elements of his personality which the group had only a glimpsed had orchestrated and magnified to a starling level of potency.

[[deleted user]]

Lisa wrote: "Has anyone read Tana French’s The Likeness? I think it may have borrowed heavily from The Secret History."

No not yet just Into The Woods. I may have to check it out

[[deleted user]]

Some points regarding Richard

*His need to be liked by people got him in more trouble than anything else
*His awareness that he is becoming the character he is playing
* Going from being happy about being friends til death us do part to being sick that there was no way out.. stuck with them for good
(Kind of be careful of what you wish for)
*His realization that (view spoiler)[ Henry had used him from the beginning so that Henry would know when Bunny would betray the group (hide spoiler)]

What about Richard’s statement “Any action, in the fullness of time, sinks to nothingness”. While that may pertain to some actions not all. For Richard believing that pertains to murder is scary.

[[deleted user]]

As disturbing as Henry could be it was nothing compared to Julian. It certainly took Henry and Richard a long time to realize it was not the kind fatherly type..”an ambiguous, moral neutral person whose beguiling trappings a being watchful, capricious and heartless”

Julian seemed to know and delight in what his class was doing—the Greek rituals but got angry when Henry started to plead with him. Julian did not seem to mind that people were murdered.

[[deleted user]]

Do you think (view spoiler)[ Henry killed himself to protect the group or because Julian left? (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

Nancy wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Has anyone read Tana French’s The Likeness? I think it may have borrowed heavily from The Secret History."

No not yet just Into The Woods. I may have to check it out"

I read that one too, and I absolutely loved it for 3/4 of it, and then thought it sort of fell apart.