Week 1 Chpts 1 & 2

[Bob]

Chapter 1
Bainton says the intelligentsia did not revolt against the church since they were of the same mind. Politics were emancipated from faith. The papacy was secularized. Does any of this resonate with the current climate of the American church?

The church taught that you should not wait until the deathbed to please for grace but to lay hold of all the church has. What does the church offer today to prepare one for the end? Are these Biblical or not?

Bainton points out that Luther's beliefs were common for his day. So was his reason for entering the monastery, to save his soul. Knowing what we do know about Luther is it fitting that until he was fully entrenched in the religious system was he able to lead a revolt.

Chapter 2
Luther comes across as one who, once he is committed to something it is 100% full steam ahead. We see that in his progress in the monastery and he comment that if anyone could work hard enough to be saved it was him. He even states his fellow monks would confirm this.

In describing the detail that went into the mass, and Luther's reverence (fear) is there anything we can learn from this attitude. Are there things we have become too casual about in the practice of our spiritual disciplines?

Is Luther right when he seems to say who am I that I should be able to talk to the Holy God. Is terror of the holy appropriate?

What are your thoughts about the visit to Rome and its riches? A talking cross. The bodies of Peter and Paul divided up to spread grace.

[Amanda]

Ok, finished chapter 1.

I think the church always has and always will struggle with secularization. It's so easy to give in to the pressure of the culture and let religion be something we only do at church, not to mention the number of unconverted who attend church and call themselves Christians because of how they were raised.

It hit me while reading that the American church doesn't seem to talk very much about the reality of death. It occurred to me sometime last week that, perhaps, a lot of the fear of COVID-19 comes from people, both in and out of the church, who have never faced their own mortality before. It's easy to read "for it is appointed for men to die and then face judgment" and never really let it sink in that death is an reality that we'll all eventually have to face. Learning how to die well seems like a really good thing, even if we learn it decades before we need it, but Americans are so disconnected from death that (at least in my experience) the church doesn't talk about it. I know this is a downer paragraph, but there you go.

[Bob]

Very true. Probably a lot to do with our therapeutic nature and wanting people to feel good and be happy. There seems to be a resurgence (in at least Reformed circles) to address the reality of death and suffering. A few books came out last year. Even my church the Pastor will say he is not doing his job if he is not preparing us to handle suffering and death well. Granted, I don't want to think about it but it is a reality we have to face.

[Matthew]

I loved the comment that in Luther's day, the supernatural was easily believed instead of rationalized which is different than the modern era. Believing in the mystical was common and accepted back then. I think it's something we are missing today sadly.

[Amanda]

Chapter 2.

I've always liked Luther's quote about if someone could be saved by monkery. :)

His devotion to the disciplines is absolutely something to be admired, even if the reason behind it wasn't. I imagine he stayed devoted to prayer and the other disciplines after his conversion. I think it's easy to let the theology of justification by faith alone (a wonderful and beautiful doctrine) make us lazy in the disciplines, since we can't buy justification through prayer and Bible reading.

I don't think terror of God is appropriate, but there is an amount of fear of the Lord that I do think is appropriate. He is a good and loving Father, but he is also the God who turns the hearts of kings like water and who makes the mountains shake. I think it's important to remember that he is Other even though, in Jesus, he became like us.

[Bob]

Calvinist wrote: "I loved the comment that in Luther's day, the supernatural was easily believed instead of rationalized which is different than the modern era. Believing in the mystical was common and accepted back..."

Absolutely. We like it all wrapped up in a neat package that makes us feel good