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Infinite Jest by D. F. Wallace, Week 12
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Do you mean IJ ... and assuming you do ... the book or the cartridge? ;-)If I was given the book right now, I don't know. I am reading a library copy (just renewed for the 4th time, had to take it there physically to show I hadn't lost it, sold it, burned it for firewood etc) but I'm not sure I will want to reread it. I would accept the gift with thanks and keep it at least a while. But it might soon seem to be taking up too much shelf space.
I wouldn't buy it for anybody else. I did recommend it to a friend last weekend, because I think he would like it. But I think making the commitment to read it should be a personal decision, so I wouldn't foist the book on someone.
If I was given the cartridge, I might suspect that person didn't like me very much ...
Something I particularly liked from week 12, was reading about a "grim windy Northeast November day where if you were at home you'd be eating earth-tone soups in a warm kitchen" when I was, at that moment, eating earth-tone soup in a warm kitchen :-)
I haven't read this section yet, so good timing to have a break week.As far as getting the IJ book as a Christmas gift? I would love it! Receiving it as a gift before having read it, I would have been pretty excited by the prospect of embarking on my first DFW read. (and I'm the type of person who's excited about receiving any and all books, I'm pretty open to try reading anything). But now that I'm actually 2/3 of the way through the book and looking back on my reading experience, I can confirm that I would love to get it as a gift.
I'm with Rosemary, though, on giving it as a gift. I would really have to know the person's reading habits to take so bold a move. I guess the main reason is it's size and the puzzling manner in which the story is told. The person reading it has to know what he is in for and make that decision for himself.
THINGS ARE FINALLY COMING TOGETHER!!! And that means that I am starting to get REALLY into this reading again! I almost wish we didn't have a break week and could keep on discussing!My first note concerns Joelle...on page 634, it explicitly states that the star of himself's movies and Orin's girlfriend "had been disfigured." This must be a real disfiguration, then.
I also wanted to ask about Steeply...has there been any mention of him being in the A.F.R or anything? On page 647, it says that "his prostheses were still not quite aligned", and I really think they were talking about Steeply. Does he also not have legs, then? Did I miss a mention of this from previously???
I also love that this section brought together pretty much every storyline while Hal is playing at ETA....they mention what the people at Ennet house, Orin, CT, and poor Tony are all doing while Hal is playing his match, and we have Steeply right there at the match. Amazing! I was so excited to read that, especially since some of those storylines seemed to happen so long ago with the order in which the book was written.
As per giving IJ as a Christmas gift...I sort of see reading this book the same as getting help from AA. Just like you can't "give" someone AA assistance if they don't want it, you can't really give the gift of reading IJ to someone who isn't ready for it. You also can't force yourself into IJ if you aren't in a place where you can really read it. I can't see someone not "ready" for what this read really entails being able to get into this book just because it is a gift. Tough question!
I'm not going to lie, I got so into this section that (for the first time) I read next's weeks section early and I can't wait to get discussing with everyone! Happy holidays!
Kaycie wrote: "My first note concerns Joelle...on page 634, it explicitly states that the star of himself's movies and Orin's girlfriend "had been disfigured." This must be a real disfiguration, then."Yes! Finally a confirmation of this, it seems at this point at least.
I also wanted to ask about Steeply... it says that "his prostheses were still not quite aligned", and I really think they were talking about Steeply. Does he also not have legs, then? Did I miss a mention of this from previously???
I took this to mean Steeply's fake breasts.
I also love that this section brought together pretty much every storyline while Hal is playing at ETA....they mention what the people at Ennet house, Orin, CT, and poor Tony are all doing while Hal is playing his match, and we have Steeply right there at the match. Amazing!
I loved this part too! Especially poor Tony as I thought he had been forgotten about... Good to know he's still hanging in there, even if he is feeling his absolute worst right now.
Just like you can't "give" someone AA assistance if they don't want it, you can't really give the gift of reading IJ to someone who isn't ready for it.
I love this analogy, Kaycie! Perfect.
Well, I actually still have around 20 pages left in this section to read. A lot of holiday prep and festivities going on! But I'll get some solid reading in after Christmas.
Linda wrote: "I took this to mean Steeply's fake breasts."Ahhh...yup. Makes so much more sense now. Thanks for the clarification! I think I was confused because it was talking about him adjusting the straps on his heels, so I went from heels to legs...I forgot about the other prostheses!! :-)
Happy reading and holiday prepping!
I read the next section before Christmas too, Kaycie! But then I put it down, and I'm totally confused about when I need to pick it up and start reading again! I guess whenever the week 13 thread appears, is when I need to start reading my little sections of part 14 ...
A.F.R.I always feel a sense of apprehension when I realize I've come upon a bit about the AFR in action. Before I even begin, I'm already laughing to myself and shaking my head.
Speaking of, the abduction of the WYYY engineer was nuts...Boy, the wheelchair bound assassin came of nowhere, and with one quick swoop hoists the engineer up and off the two went into the van?! I couldn't understand what the need was to abduct him, it was such a random occurrence.
Steeply's Father and MASH
If I haven't wrapped my head around characters riddled with addiction and consequences of before now, this segment sealed the deal. I thought to myself while the show's theme song played in my mind.. Of all the shows to form an addiction to, Wallace picks MASH. It seems those who love it still watch religiously on syndication-Quite the phenomenon...I can see its draw. Honestly, what a great tie that binds for the many recurring themes and interweaving story lines-This show and it's theme song "Suicide is Painless..." It's brilliant.
Steeply's father, however, took the love for MASH to whole other level. This particular storyline was exceptional; due to the fact we see the gradual cycle of an addiction playout in a seamless fashion, versus segmented blurbs, from it's genesis to conclusion.
It's a TV show, sure, but the slow progression of a love for something growing into this all consuming madness was riveting: the withdrawal from society (leaving the bowling league, the secrecy involved with the notebooks, loss of sleep from watching episodes in syndication, the gradual changes in vernacular (referring to the kitchen as a Mess tent, etc.. I was speechless after reading this part (639-644).
I grew up with the adults in my household watching MASH on primetime, and I admit, when I hear the theme song to the program that would not die, to this day, it triggers a little nostalgia (639)...So does the theme song to "Three's Company." LOL!
Zulfiya wrote: "We are gradually approaching the end of the book. This will be our final thread before the Christmas break.Here is a cheeky question for you? What would your reaction be if IF was one of the Chri..."
Yes, I sure would...I would gift it, but only to certain people. It's clearly, not for everybody. LoL! Are you enjoying it at all...Be honest! :P
Paranormal Activity at ETAStice's bed is moving around, the squeegees on the wall and a few other things...Anybody have any ideas?
Orin
This kid is dying to be found out for one thing, or another...He's kept a record of every body he's slept with written in a book and when he used to come home and leave it out just pleading to be read Trying to make anybody jealous, in particular, Orin? He's definitely a very determined individual, having taken obscure massage and psych courses and read tantric books... this part is hilarious...whose illustrations seemed about as sexy to Hal as Twister (634).
Very interesting how C.T. prevented Helen from interviewing any of the students at ETA, but especially Hal; however, I think this was about protecting the integrity of the establishment and any dramatic family secrets.
What's the madness behind omitting the questions Helen sent Marlon on page 665...This was also seen in FN 145 (I think) which was the interview b/n Orin and Helen?
Marlon Bain/Steeply FN 269
Loving these FNs, here lately, especially this one. It summed up in great detail some loose ends regarding Orin and his integrity. There's been speculation in some of the previous threads about how smart he is, his intellect, etc.; I think he's determined...Very determined and devious.
Essentially, taking Orin with a grain of salt is the way to go.
Bain says here Orin is the 'least open man" he knows. Orin's not a liar, but has come to regard the truth as 'constructed' instead of 'reported' -Sheds light on the interactions between Orin and Hal, and how genuine Orin really was. This approach Orin's learned from the most consummate mind-f&*%er Bain's ever known... the Moms-Loved this! But isn't she? I picture her with a beautiful smile, elegantly dressed, pearl necklace, greeting you warmly with one arm, while wielding a butcher knife behind her back in the other-So perfect, it's sinister! The manner in which she reacts to the tragic passing of S. Johnson was disturbing in itself.
Kate Gompert
She's having a real hard time of it, isn't she? I feel either her journey is going to be very long and arduous, or it's all going to be in vain...IDK. Is it a question of surrendering? Kate is suffering from the high resin pot addiction, but Kate's also unipolar (if I remember correctly), I get a sense she's in great turmoil within herself and it's hindering her rehabilitation, nothing genius in this assessment, but situation is so much more dire with the addition of being severely depressed.
On a side note, the physical description of Stice by Hal cracked me up......Hermes, or Theseus before his trials-on whose graceful neck sits the face of a ravaged Winston Churchill, broad and slab-featured, start, fleshy, large-pored... (636).
Linda wrote: "I haven't read this section yet, so good timing to have a break week.As far as getting the IJ book as a Christmas gift? I would love it! Receiving it as a gift before having read it, I would ha..."
FN 260
Linda, after our discussion on the significance of the color blue, what did you think after reading FN 260 which said Avril used green ink pens and now uses blue?
Rosemary wrote: "Something I particularly liked from week 12, was reading about a "grim windy Northeast November day where if you were at home you'd be eating earth-tone soups in a warm kitchen" when I was, at that...":-) Neat.
Zulfiya wrote: What would your reaction be if IF was one of the Christmas presents? Is it worth being a Christmas gift? ."I'd have loved someone to know my tastes enough to give this to me. I've already identified two people who I know will love this book so have passed on the DFW love.
Finally get some time to post. I am a bit behind my reading vs posting but I'll post just as I thought at the time. The engineer is kidnapped by the wheelchair assisins so I have a great deal of fear both for him and for MP as I presume that is the reason they have taken him. And, if they are getting that desperate then I can only guess that the entire Incandenza family is also in the firing line if they can't find the tape they want.
There is probably a lot of information hidden in the section centred around the dining hall. The politics and anxieties of the tennis players, the mysterious moving objects, the staff girls who work at Ennet House, Clenette?, Orins notebook, the return of Evan who was a little more injured than I thought.
The section on M.A.S.H. was great (including the fact that they selected a program which had an acronym title). I guess anything can become addictive if you let it take over your life.
The bit where it talked about what everyone was doing at the same point in time was what I spoke about previously, that these people are all existing at the same time even if their worlds seem so different. I think it's an indication that they are shortly going to be colliding in to each other. And, thinking about what's going on and reading the blurb on the back of the book again, I think it's the wheelchair assassins who are going to be responsible for bringing most or all of them together. And that is probably not a good thing...
The Question and Answer sheet from Marlon Bain was illuminating (although what was up with the bizarre way the names he addressed her by kept changing and the start of the letter being address to Ms Steeply et all?). Although it is just a person's opinion it certainly tallies with my opinion of Orin, absolutely selfish and self absorbed. And lacking in imagination enough to be a really good liar but able to view and make reality be however he wants to see it.
Ami wrote:Paranormal Activity at ETAStice's bed is moving around, the squeegees on the wall and a few other things...Anybody have any ideas?
"
No. I'm scratching my head. Is someone playing a very elaborate practical joke or does Stice really have extraordinary powers.
Ami wrote: Honestly, what a great tie that binds for the many recurring themes and interweaving story lines-This show and it's theme song "Suicide is Painless..." It's brilliant.."I hadn't thought about the music. Yes, that is perfectly suited.
Nicola wrote: "No. I'm scratching my head. Is someone playing a very elaborate practical joke or does Stice really have extraordinary powers."Going back to this week, I had forgotten about all the stuff moving around. And at the point I am in my reading, I still have no clue, unless I missed something that you will pick up on later.
I liked the MASH section as well, and had not realized it was also an acronym - perfect!
Ami - I had not realized that was the title of the MASH theme song - thanks for pointing that out. It is perfect as well.
Here I am, bringing up the rear again :)I don't have a whole lot to add, but I like everyone's thoughts on this wonderful section.
-- The AFR kidnapping the engineer was a fantastic scene -- the slow buildup to the sudden, wild abduction was brilliant. It does make me nervous, the AFR is getting closer and closer to our friends. I fear that at any moment they will show up at the Ennett House or ETA.
-- The MASH section, although sad for Steeply, was delightful to me...my wife and I are huge MASH fans, we have all of the DVDs and have seen every episode 2-3 times or more.
-- I loved the part where we got to check in with all of the characters. It was interesting that this also served as kind of a reference point in time -- after all, we see Poor Tony still in the bathroom stall, if I am not mistaken? When in his narrative we have actually moved beyond that? Not to mention that we see a slight flash FORWARD of the young ETA adventure in the tunnels, which we hear about a few pages later. (another delightful scene! FERAL HAMSTER HUNT! I was practically laughing aloud at the very possibility that we might actually encounter a Hamster.) Also I was glad to confirm that Gately seems to be recovering.
-- The supernatural occurrences would seem funny, I think, if they were not introduced so closely to Geoffery Day's tale of the "entity" that has plagued him throughout his life. Both elements are unexpected and, together, definitely cast an ominous light on the section.
-- Orin continues to lose more of my respect, he is just a bad person it seems. I used to think that he had good reason to be such a cad -- psychologically speaking. But now I'm finding it harder and harder to give him the benefit of the doubt. Marlon Bain didn't seem much better.
-- The cafeteria scene had some great character moments, and I agree that it seems like there must be some foreshadowing in there. It will definitely be on my list of scenes to reread.
John wrote: "Here I am, bringing up the rear again :)"No worries, John! Even though I've finished the book, I'm having a hard time reshelving it onto my bookcase as I keep thinking about it and looking things up, so I'm still looking forward to your comments.
Yeah, I loved the idea of a feral hamster hunt and the prospect of finding one. Too funny!
I have to say I was a little disappointed that the Tunnel Club didn't discover anything more than some rancid food. Hopefully we'll see more of their adventures later.I found myself nodding my head at DFW's observation of boys in the 10-13 age range having a fascination with tunnels and hidden passages. When I was that age my friends and I were pretty riveted by some below-floor storage areas in our school. We called them "the Catacombs" and there were only one or two of us brave enough to climb down there. Looking at it like that, it seems like it must be a Freudian thing...oh my :)
John wrote: -- The supernatural occurrences would seem funny, I think, if they were not introduced so closely to Geoffery Day's tale of the "entity" that has plagued him throughout his life. Both elements are unexpected and, together, definitely cast an ominous light on the section."John I've totally missed this! On the re-read I'll keep an eye out for it.
John wrote: "-- The MASH section, although sad for Steeply, was delightful to me...my wife and I are huge MASH fans, we have all of the DVDs and have seen every episode 2-3 times or more."I think most of us have a soft spot for MASH. It was on so much when I was growing up :-)
John wrote:-- I loved the part where we got to check in with all of the characters. It was interesting that this also served as kind of a reference point in time -- after all, we see Poor Tony still in the bathroom stall, if I am not mistaken? When in his narrative we have actually moved beyond that? Not to mention that we see a slight flash FORWARD of the young ETA adventure in the tunnels, which we hear about a few pages later"Poor Tony was in those toilets for a while remember. Possibly weeks while he was trying to recover. Serious gross out that thought...
And the food in the tunnels I have been thinking about - perhaps it was another thing that has been moved around? Won't say much about it here as it's probably the wrong section but I think that's safe enough.
Nicola wrote: "John I've totally missed this! On the re-read I'll keep an eye out for it. "You missed Day's whole story? It's the story he was telling Kate Gompert, where he was practicing his violin as a child and a certain frequency triggered a vision of some kind of malicious darkness. Maybe I just didn't describe it well. It was kind of abstract.
Nicola wrote: "And the food in the tunnels I have been thinking about - perhaps it was another thing that has been moved around"
That sounds likely!
Here is a cheeky question for you? What would your reaction be if IF was one of the Christmas presents? Is it worth being a Christmas gift?