Vorkosigan 10 -- Memory--note--numbers are OUR reading order only

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Here's where you talk about my favorite of them all (on alternate days when my favorite isn't A Civil Campaign) Memory.

[Nick]

I really enjoyed this one. It was excellent.

In the first third, I think I was pleasantly surprised by Miles facing the consequences of his actions, especially (view spoiler)[that he is never let off the hook for massively fucking this one up with no mitigating excuses: Illyan doesn't let him off, he doesn't let himself off, even the narrative doesn't let him off: rubbing his nose in it by forcing chance encounters with his poor victim. We've seen Miles finesse his way out of so many fixes before, I was half expecting him to wiggle out of it.
It's really painful to watch Miles have to live with the fact that he's a liar who endangered other people and let down everyone who depends on him. Especially because he came so close to just telling the truth! It was so painful. I love that these books can make me judge Miles so clearly and still love him. (hide spoiler)]

I also really enjoyed the cat-and-mouse game of the middle act of the book, (view spoiler)[ it's not often that a man sifting through the account logs is so gripping, but I enjoyed it. Was anyone certain in advance of who the true culprit turned out to be? There weren't really that many other suspects, since it definitely was never Galeni, but I still enjoyed the hunt. (hide spoiler)] It also really amuses me that Miles's expertise in pipes came back up in the story! Truly, his early miltary training will never let him down. Bujold does some great minor characters in the men who work at Impsec. I also enjoyed the gentle comedy of everyone going: 'Oh shit, we're being audited!'

My only criticism is pretty small and it's the same old typical criticism of the Vorkosigan books: (view spoiler)[it all wraps up very easily at the end. Miles's trap to catch Haroche works perfectly - even though to me it seems like the sort of thing that could've fallen apart in a hundred ways, not least if Haroche had been even a little bit intelligent about it! (hide spoiler)]

Favourite quote: The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Nick wrote: "Favourite quote: The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart."

Absolutely!

[Antti]

I liked this, although it was too much Mirror Dance, Part Two: they both feature a M.Vorkosigan who makes a fatal blunder and loses everything he holds dear as a consequence; he comes to Barrayar and there grows as a person and finds out who he really is; he ends up in a very different position he started out from, having learnt a valuable lesson.

I was glad Miles (view spoiler)[left the Dendarii behind: it was high time to switch gears. There was a long reference to Mountains of Mourning, and I'm hoping subsequent books will follow in MoM:s footsteps. (hide spoiler)]

[Nick]

Hmm, good point Antti, I hadn't noticed that. Now I'm looking back over all the Vorkosigan books to see how many fit the pattern of 'Character goes through hell and learns from it'.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Nick wrote: "Hmm, good point Antti, I hadn't noticed that. Now I'm looking back over all the Vorkosigan books to see how many fit the pattern of 'Character goes through hell and learns from it'."

I think a great many books can be described as 'Character goes through hell and learns from it'. I think that many of those that can't are ones where someone else went through hell and the characters are left with the aftermath, e.g,, murder mysteries.

Because . . . conflict! Without conflict, not much to write about! And if the character doesn't grow from it, then we don't like him. Not a sympathetic character.

Maybe the bones of this are more on the surface in Bujold's writing, or maybe it is the reading of them all in a row so you see the similarities, I don't know. But Bujold does it so well, still all good. (Though there are a couple that I don't like very well toward the end and have only read once. I am curious to see what I will think when I read those two again.)

I suppose that the reason many mystery series (and others) gradually fail/lose readers is the similarity similar to that of which you speak.

[Jeanette]

I found this one hard to get through, all a bit down and depressing until about 1/2 way through. I read it as a love letter from Lois McMaster Bujold to Miles, one of those letters where your heart pours out onto the page but you never send after a relationship ends. The good, the bad, the missed opportunities...

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Jeanette wrote: "I found this one hard to get through, all a bit down and depressing until about 1/2 way through. I read it as a love letter from Lois McMaster Bujold to Miles, one of those letters where your heart..."

Now that I think about it, I read an essay or note or afterword or SOMETHING by Bujold some years ago, and I recall that she said she plots by the device of "What's the worst thing I can do to this guy?" And I think that many or her books fulfill that device, albeit with triumphant outcomes (though not always without costs/side effects, as we have seen.)

I mean, if she killed Miles off, we would have defeated the entire purpose of the series.

[Lee at ReadWriteWish]

Finished this yesterday. Loved it. My fav Miles (so far! I've said this a couple of times now!)

I found it quite an emotional book (is it, or am I just feeling that way because of Covid?). I got quite teary a few times.

I said in my review that I've realised I prefer Lord Vorkosigan over Admiral Naismith. Lord Vokosigan is a mature honourable man, I think, whereas Admiral Naismith can quite often acts like an impulsive teenager.

Although I was teary, I did laugh a lot. The new driver-cum-butler running into Gregor's gate! And Miles asking Ivan if he wanted a kitten! LOL

I like how LMB 'shows-not-tells' us how much the other characters like/love Miles and how he loves them. His respect/love for Illyan, Galeni, Gregor and Ivan shines through in the way he conducts his himself in this installment-especially with his inability to just let Illyan and Galeni fend for themselves. His love for (and approval from) his grandfather is also again glaringly obvious from his inner thoughts. I do like how Miles's relationship with him is an ongoing part of his life and wasn't just mentioned once and never brought up again.

[Nick]

Jeanette wrote: "I read it as a love letter from Lois McMaster Bujold to Miles, one of those letters where your heart pours out onto the page but you never send after a relationship ends."

Kateblue wrote: " she said she plots by the device of "What's the worst thing I can do to this guy?"

It's fnny that both of these strike me as being very true about this book - Miles is horribly punished and looses a lot in this story - and yet it's so tender of his failings.

[Joe]

I'm apparently alone here, but I hated this book. If it wasn't for the challenge, I'd be done with the series for sure.

It makes NO SENSE AT ALL that Miles would do what he did to start all this, it's completely out of character. It's even more out of character that his parents didn't take him to task for it. Or Gregor. Or Ivan. No one. They all just hand waved it away as 'Miles being Miles'.. but this was far different, and far more serious.

On top of that, the whole 'the emperor stole my girlfriend, no problem, I'll grab this one instead' plot with Galeni was terrible (though at least in character).

The mystery of the book was decent, but completely predictable, there was no other culprit it could have been from the beginning.. .she might as well have written it Columbo style and just showed us the crime first.

Also, I'm sad to have seen the last of Admiral Naismith, I found him far more interesting than Miles Vorkosigan... they're going to have to try hard to convince me Miles made the right decision.

[Kalin]

I was also really sad that Admiral Naismith, and the Dendarii Mercs, are getting left behind. The Dendarii shenanigans were some of the most interesting parts of the stories for me.

And I agree that the villain of the story was obvious to me almost from the first time his name was mentioned.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Kalin wrote: "And I agree that the villain of the story was obvious to me almost from the first time his name was mentioned."

It should have occurred to me, but it didn't. I scrutinize plots more since I've tried to learn to write, so now I see what you mean. Who else is there, obviously!

I think perhaps that when a book is so readable, as all hers are, so that I get pulled along and cannot stop reading, my suspension of disbelief ability goes through the roof.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Joe wrote: "I'm apparently alone here, but I hated this book. If it wasn't for the challenge, I'd be done with the series for sure.."

I actually liked it, for me it was a "growing up" plot, but instead of a teen, who usually used for such kind of stories, we have a man.

As for the mystery, while I had my suspicions, I saw no motive and I was sure that Illyan was unable to miss an enemy so long. And the motive part was unexpected

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Oleksandr wrote: "And the motive part was unexpected"

Ah, these crazy Barrayarans!

[Lee at ReadWriteWish]

I agree about the lack of suspects but I thought it might have been the (view spoiler)[personal assistant/secretary guy, can't remember his name (hide spoiler)] because he seemed to be mentioned more than once.

[Antti]

At first I considered the new boss to be really obviously the villain, but then the book managed to throw enough red herrings and reasonable explanations that I started to doubt my early conclusion: perhaps it was the intention to mislead the reader, and the real villain is someone else?

But then when he turned out to be the bad guy after all, I wasn't disappointed, I merely laughed silently to myself. Way to go with the double-bluff, LMB!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Antti wrote: "At first I considered the new boss to be really obviously the villain, but then the book managed to throw enough red herrings and reasonable explanations that I started to doubt my early conclusion..."

The same here

[Nick]

Joe wrote: "It makes NO SENSE AT ALL that Miles would do what he did to start all this, it's completely out of character. It's even more out of character that his parents didn't take him to task for it."
I thnk it makes sense. We see Miles's rationalising as he makes the decision to tell that lie, we see how he managed to convince himself it wasn't so serious, how he very nearly didn't do it, how he was fooling himself that he was going to correct it. And we see why - a huge part of Miles self-esteem is tied up in Naismith, it's not surprising that he wouldn't want to let him go!

Aral seems the type for silent disapproval, and Cordelia has always been a compassionate pragmatist. What's the point in berating someone for something that's already done? She can see that he's already punished by guilt, shame and the loss of Naismith.

[Antti]

I thought it was totally consistent for Miles to lie about his seizures. His modus operandi had always been to just charge ahead with whatever plan he has, regardless of any rules he might be breaking, and hope it turns out all right - which it always had.

With a career like that, it's almost inevitable to someday break some rule that you really shouldn't have broken, and realize too late that this time you can't fast talk your way out of it, no matter how much chutzpah you can muster.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Antti wrote: "I thought it was totally consistent for Miles to lie about his seizures. His modus operandi had always been to just charge ahead with whatever plan he has, regardless of any rules he might be break..."

I fully agree, he knows that history is written by victors :) as well as ImSec reports

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Antti wrote: "I thought it was totally consistent for Miles to lie about his seizures."

Totally agree, and he KNOWS it's stupid and does it anyway. We've all done stupid things, probably, though Miles, with a bigger life, makes a bigger mistake. We've also probably all been willfully blind at least once in our lives.

[Kalin]

I too found that mistake believable. Especially 'cause Miles thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

But god, I am two thirds through the next book and I sorely miss Admiral Naismith. I really liked him better than Lord Vorkosigan, except for in the Mountains of Mourning.

[Lee at ReadWriteWish]

I'm totally the opposite. #teamlordvorkosigan

[Joe]

I think this was too big to lie about, and Miles should have known it. Sure he plays fast and loose with the rules, but to betray the trust of the service didn't make sense to me.

Maybe it's a sign of how good the writing is that we can even have such a discussion, since the characters are so well created :)

[Kalin]

I think he knew that given the nature of his cognitive injuries, there would be no way to talk his superiors into letting him continue in his current role, so once he came clean, even with treatment his ImpSec career, and Dendarii Merc Admiral career, would be over.

Given that, I can understand why he tried to sweep it under the rug and hope for the best.

The whole dilemma felt like LMB making good on her implied threat from "Mirror Dance" where Cordelia said "I'll only really be worried about Miles' sanity when the little admiral is taken away from him."

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Joe wrote: "I think this was too big to lie about, and Miles should have known it. "

I think it is like addicts, who are sure that they can abandon their addiction at any moment, just don't need/want to right now. He went on the rescue mission never thinking that he can have a seizure and he thinks after that it was just an accident that won't repeat thus no need to inform ImpSec

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

He would not have been happy as Admiral Naismith unless he could go out with the troops, or at least take a more active role than sitting back on the ship, directing stuff. So Naismith had to go.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "He would not have been happy as Admiral Naismith unless he could go out with the troops, or at least take a more active role than sitting back on the ship, directing stuff. So Naismith had to go."

Agreed

[Allan]

Oleksandr wrote: "I think it is like addicts, who are sure that they can abandon their addiction at any moment, just don't need/w..."

I think it was important to show that even Miles, in all his glorious glibness, could make a poor, life-changing choice and couldn't just talk his way out of it. It made him more human to me, added realism and was probably the moment I enjoyed the most in the whole series.

Speaking of addicts, on a sad note, two musicians I follow and am more than acquainted with died from drug overdoses in the last week. Both had had previous addictions, rehab, etc. Their deaths emphasize the psychological difficulties people are having during the pandemic, especially those who make their livings performing. It's not just economic, it's also deprived them of the emotional exchange between performer and audience. Did they fool themselves like Miles did? Maybe. Miles thinks he can get away with it, where in real life, they know the pitfalls but can't stay away from the dangerous comfort of the high. I feel like it's more akin to Miles thinking that leaving to become Admiral Naismith forever would solve his problems. (RIP Rontrose & JT).

[Joe]

I feel like getting shot and killed did that just fine. Maybe I'm just grumpy we won't see anymore Dendarii stories (Which I like far more than the others), which seem to be the main world building. We'll see what happens with the next one, but I'm gonna wait a bit for sure.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Joe wrote: "I feel like getting shot and killed did that just fine. Maybe I'm just grumpy we won't see anymore Dendarii stories "

I liked the mercenaries too, I hope to see them in the future, even if as minor notions. However, I liked the growing up of Miles as well, finally having peace with his Vorkosigan part

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

A very well written book, this for me is the breaking point for the series where it matures into something more complex than a series of scenes.

I hope it is not going where I think it's going, because so far I'm enjoying the book very much.

[Kalin]

Where do you think it's going? :)

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

Kalin wrote: "Where do you think it's going? :)"

If it will follow the same pattern of "foreshadowing" and predictable bad guys I will be disappointed. To me, the problem with the majority of the books so far has been that if you stop the neck breaking rush through the pages and see all the events as a whole you see all the little faults.

I'm really glad about there being all the extra tasty bits about Illyan, he is a great character and his interactions with Miles are very interesting to follow. Miles taking a trip to the countryside was a nice touch too, revisiting characters from a novella was touching.

I wonder if LMB had an experience with Alzheimer's before writing this book, because besides the great intrigue and mystery that it's an interesting (and welcome) topic to explore in a sci-fi environment.

[Joe]

I kinda agree with you about the 'if you slow down you see the faults' sentiment. Funnily enough, though, somehow that not only reflects the writing, but Miles' life as well... He really struggles with things when he slows down as well (doesn't bode well for his old age)

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

Kalin wrote: "Where do you think it's going? :)"

Ye gods, there wasn't even a plot twist. I did not expect that. There wasn't even much of a mystery there. I was half expecting a plot twist where another person would surface and we would learn that his arm was twisted. But then I looked at the remaining pages and figured that allowing for the usual 60 pages of debriefing in the end (the part that is beginning to drive up the wall), there wasn't much left for a plot twist.

A nice book, the conflict was interesting even thought the villain and mystery weren't much.

[Rebecca]

Hey all, yes I'm back necro-posting here because I managed to pick up Memory! Great to see at the top this is Kate's favorite. I loved Mirror Dance and hope this continues the trend of deeper character development, more complicated political machinations, and less of the unbelievable Miles-ing. ;)

A few early reactions (@25%): (view spoiler)[

She dumps a bunch of changes on us right at the beginning: the Jeseks leaving the Dendarii Free Mercenaries, not all is roses with Elli Quinn (and they have an open relationship?), Miles' deeper feelings for Tara, and oh ya he gets fired! This is a lot, it sucked me right back in and I couldn't stop listening. At the same time I'm a bit jarred.

Miles is getting his punishment of lying, I was taken aback when he falsified the records and constantly dodged telling anyone, that seems out of character - he usually has some sense of ethics, right?

I really don't understand why he stays in Barrayar after this point. He should leave and get his brain looked at. Or just leave and go back to the Mercenaries, run them as he did before but without the Barrayar backing? Doesn't seem like there is any reason to stay - he can always come back and visit family.

And then there is Galeni's date, Bujold is obviously focusing on her so something must happen with her...looking forward to what it is!
(hide spoiler)]

[Allan]

Rebecca wrote: "Hey all, yes I'm back necro-posting here because I managed to pick up Memory! Great to see at the top this is Kate's favorite. I loved Mirror Dance and hope this continues the trend of deeper chara..."

Glad to hear you got hold of it. You're well down the pike in the series! It was also my favorite of the series, where I thought the series really peaked. Not that the remaining books bring it down, I see it as a slow climb down to the finale.