The Mirror and the Light - SPOILER Thread

[Susan]

Sounds good, Judy. I have read The Lady in the Tower: The Fall of Anne Boleyn but that was by Alison Weir

[Virgulab]

Thanks for the insight, Val -- that's helpful.

[Judy]

Thanks for the Boleyn recommendation, Susan, sounds great. I want to get into reading more books about the Tudors shortly.

[Susan]

I am currently reading Among The Wolves of Court

It is about Thomas Boleyn, Anne's father, and her brother, George. I think it is the first book I have read that deals with the Boleyn men, rather than Mary or Anne.

[Roman Clodia]

Sounds interesting, Susan. There's as much 'folklore' about the Boleyn men as there is about Anne and Mary - do tell us how you get on with this.

[Susan]

I think it was a PhD and, as such, seems a little dry - but very informative.

[Judy]

I like the way wolves have been used in the title, to appeal to Wolf Hall readers I'm guessing?

[Susan]

Probably. The author has the gorgeous looking Wolf Hall Companion which just came out.

An accessible and authoritative companion to the bestselling Wolf Hall trilogy by Hilary Mantel, published after the third and final book, The Mirror and the Light.

Wolf Hall Companion gives an historian's view of what we know about Thomas Cromwell, one of the most powerful men of the Tudor age and the central character in Mantel's Wolf Hall trilogy.

Covering the key court and political characters from the books, this companion guide also works as a concise Tudor history primer. Alongside Thomas Cromwell, the author explores characters including Anne Boleyn, Thomas Cranmer, Jane Seymour, Henry VIII, Thomas Howard, Cardinal Wolsey and Richard Fox. The important places in the court of Henry VIII are introduced and put into context, including Hampton Court, the Tower of London, Cromwell's home Austin Friars, and of course Wolf Hall. The author explores not only the real history of these people and places, but also Hilary Mantel's interpretation of them.

Included in the book are also incisive features on various aspects of Tudor life, from the court scene and the structure of government, to royal hunting and hawking, Renaissance influences and Tudor executions.

A beautiful and insightful book, Wolf Hall Companion will enrich the reading of the Mantel novels but also provides an incisive and concise understanding of the reign of Henry VIII, and the profound changes it brought to English life.

Illustrated throughout with woodcut portraits, maps and family trees and with a beautifully produced cover this companion guide is a must-have for any discerning Wolf Hall and Tudor fan.

Suspect the hardback will be in a lot of Christmas stockings this year.

[Val]

Susan wrote: "I am currently reading Among The Wolves of Court ...

I think it is the first book I have read that deals with the Boleyn men,"

Noted. Thanks Susan. (I am a bit 'Tudored-out' right now, but will add it to the 'Want to Read' list.)

[Susan]

I know what you mean, Val. I tend to have moments when I read a lot about my historical obsessions and often one book leads to another.

[Judy]

I'm not really 'Tudored in' yet, but hope to get that way soon! I do tend to concentrate on different reading obsessions at different times too, though.

[Val]

Thank you Susan and Judy, I did not want to spell out (in tedious length) what I meant. For everyone else: if I make up a word or intentionally misuse a word, I always put it in '...'

[Susan]

I have nearly finished the book about Thomas and George Boleyn. There is more about Thomas, to be honest. George remains a somewhat shadowy character. Yes, he had a rift with his wife, Jane, but nobody seems sure what about. He was a bit heavy handed with tasks he was given, but he was young and the brother of the Queen that nobody really wanted - certainly the populace were on the side of Katherine. I have reached the part of Anne's downfall, so that will be interesting. One thing that was a revelation was that Thomas Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell seemed to have been fairly close. When a poor relative of Cromwell approached Boleyn, he went out of his way to assist him, for example, and there was nothing in it for him. Plus, this seems to have been mutual, with Cromwell finding work for Boleyn's godson.

[Roman Clodia]

I could be wrong, but weren't the Cromwells and the Boleyns distantly related?

As you say, Thomas is fairly well documented but George is more shadowy because there just aren't the sources. It's so frustrating not to be able to understand his marriage better.

[Susan]

It hasn't mentioned a family relationship, but possibly. The first Boleyn who rose to prominence, did so as Mayor of London.

[Val]

Susan wrote: "Thomas Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell seemed to have been fairly close."
They are in Hilary Mantel's trilogy, I think, (although not in the last book).

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, writers who want to make the Boleyns obscure upstarts never mention the mayor!

In case you're interested, the most authoritative biography of Anne is Eric Ives' The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn, and he takes the time to fill in the family background of both the Boleyns and Howards, and what we can know about Anne before she arrives at Henry's court.

[Susan]

I think I have read it, RC, but not for a while. This book does fill in Thomas Boleyn's long diplomatic career and mentions Mary, the rogue Boleyn sister!

I am off to do the school run now and head for work, but will try to pop back and it would be great to run the Eric Ives biography as a buddy read in the distant future.

[Roman Clodia]

I'm also back to going into work and somehow the commute is eating away all my reading time!

And yes, it would be fun to buddy-read Ives - I've got lots on and am doing slavery reading for work (fascinating if hard) ... but sometime in the future would be great.

[Susan]

We definitely need to do more Tudors.

[Judy]

Susan wrote: "We definitely need to do more Tudors."

I agree with that. :)

[Susan]

Is there anything particular you would like to read, Judy?

[Judy]

I think it would probably be better if one of you recommended something as I have read a lot less about Tudors than you have, so I'm up for pretty much anything, except preferably not a Cromwell biography right now. I've just picked up 1536: The Year That Changed Henry VIII and The Private Lives of the Tudors: Uncovering the Secrets of Britain's Greatest Dynasty on Scribd, and I'm also always up for anything about Shakespeare!

I would also love to read a Thomas Wolsey biography as I live in Ipswich, where we have a statue of him with his cat, the Wolsey Theatre, Cardinal Park and Wolsey's Gate, so I can hardly believe I haven't already read one.

[Judy]

But anyway what I mean to say is, anything you fancy that I can get hold of, Susan or RC...

[Susan]

1536 looks good, although I am not sure that was such a pivotal year, as talking of Wolsey, he had already had his downfall. Still, I always find books about Anne Boleyn's downfall interesting I would also enjoy a Wolsey biography and have read relatively little about Shakespeare. If we choose something on kindle that would help - the Wolsey biographies are all huge and I am back to taking the train - fairly empty at the moment, but I doubt it will stay that way.

[Roman Clodia]

Have you read James Shapiro's 1599: A Year in the Life of William Shakespeare or The Year of Lear: Shakespeare in 1606? Both are excellent. Also Shapiro's Contested Will: Who Wrote Shakespeare? on the centuries of conspiracy theories. I'd happily reread any of these.

I also have but haven't read The Lodger Shakespeare: His Life on Silver Street.

[Roman Clodia]

Here are my reviews if they help:

1599: www.goodreads.com/review/show/1663677827

1606: www.goodreads.com/review/show/1646069409

Contested Will: www.goodreads.com/review/show/1676217639

[Susan]

I feel sure I would enjoy whatever you both choose. We could figure a couple of 'year' books - the Henry one and one of the Shakespeare ones for later in the year, or even next year if our reading cards are full :)

[Val]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Have you read James Shapiro's 1599: A Year in the Life of William Shakespeare or The Year of Lear: Shakespeare in 1606? Both are excellent. Also Shapiro's [book:Contes..."
'1599' is the title I was trying to remember RC, thanks.
It is not about the Boleyn family, or the Tudors in general, but is close enough to interest all of us together.

[Judy]

Great reviews, RC, thank you for posting the links. I want to read all those Shakespeare titles so would be up for any of them.

I think 1536 may possibly be a bit basic for you Tudor experts, after having a look inside... so perhaps I should read that one on my own, and one of you can come up with another suggestion?!

[Susan]

I have 1599 on my kindle, so would be happy to read it.

[Roman Clodia]

The other possible attraction of 1599 is that it gives some background to Shakespeare's family back in Stratford which may be of interest to those who've read or are planning to read Hamnet.

[Val]

Roman Clodia wrote: "The other possible attraction of 1599 is that it gives some background to Shakespeare's family back in Stratford which may be of interest to those who've read or are planning to read [book:Hamnet|4..."
Yes.

[Judy]

Ooh yes, I have Hamnet waiting to read on my Kindle. Everything seems to point to 1599!

[Roman Clodia]

Haha, I *hated* Hamnet but recognise that I'm in a minority there :)

Let's go for 1599 then - any thoughts about when?

[Susan]

I am fine with whenever is agreed.

[Judy]

I'm also happy with whenever others can do - I haven't committed to many buddy reads in the next few months.

[Judy]

Would November suit anyone? I've just had a look at the master list and there are already 3 buddy reads, Zola, Martin Cruz Smith and Anita Brookner, but I don't think I'm planning to read any of those so I would be able to squeeze it in. Or would later on be better for others?

[Susan]

I plan to read two of those, but I am sure I could fit it in.

[Val]

I plan to read Zola on time, and am happy to delay reading the others, so November would suit.

[Roman Clodia]

November is good for me too - 1599 is one of those books best read slowly, anyway, rather than rushing through it and it will be interesting to discuss as we go.

I'll add it to our bookshelf.

[Judy]

Thank you all, that's great.