Re-reading 'Swann's Way'

[Dave]

Again...hic

[Renato]

And to think I came only in April and Dave around May/June?

You were this close at being at the bar by yourself, Jonathan!

[Jonathan]

Well, someone had to prop up the bar until the cavalry arrived. :-)

[Ben]

Jonathan wrote: "Well, someone had to prop up the bar until the cavalry arrived. :-)"

I would not claim to be the cavalry, but the rest of you were certainly propping up the bar quite effectively by the time I eventually arrived on the scene! :-))
Be that as it may, I am still enjoying the re-read of 'Combray' thus far, gaining new insights as I go along and seeing some old friends in a new light. As mentioned, I enrolled for Bill Carter's course online and am also listening to the free audiobook of 'Swann's Way' on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j9PP...

In the meantime, I also intend joining the 2015 group on a 'lurker' basis, like some of you.

[Renato]

Ben, are you planning to read just Combray or the entire Swaan's Way?

[Ben]

Renato, as presently advised, I intend reading the whole of Swann's Way before deciding as to the way forward from there. Will keep in touch.

[Dave]

Although I wasn't available to join the initial discussion of the reread, I have some comments to make. I also have some comments to make about the whole novel which I will post over on the "After We Have Regained Time" thread.

[Dave]

I believe Jonathan comments on his surprise at seeing Mme St Loup mentioned in the opening pages. It was exactly this surprise that completely astonished me and sent me into an obsession of rereading and background reading. I was filled with a sense that I had completely misunderstood the book - not unlike Marcel completely misunderstands people and situations throughout the book. Although I didn't appreciate it at the time, I now believe Proust wrote this reader misunderstanding into the book. This is one of the ways that Proust's book is unique.

[Dave]

Renato noted the similarity to rereading Proust to rereading other novels in that we all enjoy remembering forgotten details and discovering details we overlooked the first time. I still find such discoveries fun, but the more I reread the more I find myself focusing on the interior monologues that I really didn't pay much attention to. I can't really say why I ignored them, perhaps they just didn't make much sense at the time. But now I find them incredibly insightful and full of allusions to other parts of the story. I think this change of focus has to do with my shift from reading the younger Narrator's point of view to the older Narrator's point of view. I'll comment on the duel narrators on the other tread.

[Dave]

The Awakening Scene (I've found that that referring to parts of the book as a play is or precise) is the first interior monologues and one of my favorites. Sadly, it is given short shrift in most commentaries if mentioned at all. It is brilliantly conceived and masterfully written. The final pages of the novel is beautifully symmetrical to what is written here. I've reread this section a lot and get goosebumps every time.

So what's this scene about? For me is announces what the novel is about -self discovery. I am reminded of advise I've received about public speaking -tell them what your going to tell them, tell them, then tell them what you told them. So here, Proust tells me what he is going to tell me. In a series of metaphorical bedrooms the narrator awakens or lies awake and tries to orient himself in time and space. Various problems of perception arise in the process of awakening. Allusions are made to other times and places that mean nothing to a first time reader.

This series of bedrooms and the confusing process of orientation foreshadow the series of experiences the Narrator will try to orient himself to in the novel.

He final paragraph of the awakening scene begins, "Certainly I was now well awake; my body had veered round for the last time and the good angel of certainty had made all the surrounding objects stand still, had set me down under my bedclothes, in my bedroom,.."

[Dave]

The first sentence of the next paragraph is a great example of Proust demonstrating his writer's craft. "At Combray, as every afternoon ended, long before the time when I should have to go to bed and lie there, unsleeping, far from my mother and grandmother, my bedroom became the fixed point on which my melancholy and anxious thoughts were centered." He sets the location of the next scene, refreshes the previous scene for the reader with the words long, time, bed, lie. unsleeping and bedroom. And previews the current scene with mother, grandmother, melancholy and anxious.

[Dave]

The last scene in Swann's Way is also an Interior Monologue. I understand Proust wrote this scene as a conclusion to Swann's Way when publication considerations required a volume break here. I find this scene interesting or several reasons. The Narrator identifies the location as the Bois de Boulogne and the time as November "of this year". I believe it is Shattuck (maybe others) who identifies the year as 1913. I don't remember if a reason is given for the year but it works for me. The most interesting thing here for me is that The Narrator's musings lead to a conclusion completely opposite to his inspiration in the Library at the end. He concludes that time cannot be regained. This sets a mental place marker for the reader concerning his thoughts on Time, thoughts that will evolve over the course of the novel. Again, first time reader would have no reason to pick up on this.

[Jonathan]

Dave wrote: "The Awakening Scene (I've found that that referring to parts of the book as a play is or precise) is the first interior monologues and one of my favorites. Sadly, it is given short shrift in most c..."

I think most general readers enjoy the opening few pages, the 'Awakening Scene', even if it's given 'short shrift' by the academics.

So are you saying that the opening pages are a sort of summary (in a way) of the whole novel? Or maybe a taster? I think you may have a point.

One of the things that struck me about the whole novel was how Marcel is ultimately disappointed as soon as he gets close to attaining whatever it was that he was trying to attain - usually a woman, Gilberte, Albertine, Mme de Guermantes, but also his social aspirations. This seems to be described in the opening pages when he describes waking up after dreaming of a woman's caresses:

And then, gradually, the memory of her would fade away, I had forgotten the girl of my dream.

I found this very sad on my first reading but, of course, I didn't know that this disappointment would play out repeatedly throughout the book.

[Dave]

Yes Jonathan, a summary (or a teaser) is a good way to put it. Some of the books I've read talk about all of Swann's Way as an introduction. I limited my comments just to the very first part to illustrate the interesting things I have found in the monologues on rereading.

I agree that the part about the woman speaks to his disappointment in love. But I would suggest that the disappointments in love are due to his repeated misconception of love that the various objects of his love cannot live up to.

Likewise he wakes up to the disappointments of society, his chronic sense of inadequacy as a writer etc. Only at the end does he "get it".

I haven't made any effort to link specific bedrooms to specific themes etc. For me it is enough to see the repeated pattern awakening and reorientation in different settings to see a connection to what I know of the plot to come on a large scale.

The repeated failure theme is one I picked up from one of the outside readings (Shattuck maybe?)

[Dave]

Although it can only be seen as a summary of teaser you are on our side of the first read. The various times I tried to start the novel I was in the same boat as that first publisher - why do we need so many pages about a man tossing and turning trying to get to sleep? lol

[Jonathan]

Dave wrote: "The last scene in Swann's Way is also an Interior Monologue. I understand Proust wrote this scene as a conclusion to Swann's Way when publication considerations required a volume break here. I find..."

I know you and others have talked about a young narrator and older narrator - Shattuck also mentions this in Proust's Way - and although sometimes I was aware of it most of the time I wasn't. But this section at the end of Swann's Way is, IMO, an example of Proust 'breaking through' and commenting on proceedings. There are quite a few more examples throughout the novel and are more noticeable than the old/young narrator episodes as they're often out of sync with the rest of the text.

[Dave]

This dual Narrator issue is what I kept referring to as the White Rabbit. It is in my opinion, one of the main things that sets Proust's book apart (and above) other books. It is the Narrative technique that he invented that allowed him to write a book that was both philosophical and fiction. I struggled for months trying to understand this aspect of the book. Understanding is not helped by all the outside readings that have different ideas about this issue and use different terminology. Also complicating things is that I've not seen any reference in bio's or correspondence of Proust discussing this aspect of the book.

Having said all that, the following is my current opinion based on my reading experience and outside reading.

First reading: I am reading a novel about a boy narrated in the first person who eventually grows up and is inspired to write a book. Early on I perceive (and we discuss in the group) the fact that the "thoughts" of the Narrator seem too mature for the current age of the Narrator. Eventually I loose track of this issue and just read the book as the Narrator telling me the story more or less as it occurs. I get heavily emotionally involved with with the Narrator (generally pissed off). Only in the library scene does he redeem himself in my mind.

Second reading. I go back to the beginning trying to tie up loose ends and see Mme. Saint Loup mentioned in the opening pages. I was stunned! I realized that that I had totally misunderstood the book in a fundamental way. The story is told as a retrospective by the man I thought was the Narrator when he is much older (nominally 20 years works for me but that's not too important) about events in the first part of his life. Being in my 60's I have a very keen sense of not being the person I was in my 40's. In effect this is a different Narrator from the Narrator I read on the first read. This is the Old Narrator, that was the Young Narrator. A different Narrator tells a different story - and so Proust pulls out of his hat a big fluffy White Rabbit that is a new story that is much more profound -a world masterpiece.

There is a lot of talk in outside reading about the difficulty of switching between the two narrators as you read. I have not found that to be a problem. On the first read I freely admit I only perceived and read the story from The Young Narrator's point of view. (Reached the imi of a post, continued next post)

[Dave]

On the second read, whether dialogue, description, or monolgue, only the Old Narrator speaks to me. The Young Narrator is lost to me. I've deliberately tried to "see" him in the text and have been unsucsessful. To the degree he is there at all, he is just a character in the Old Narrator's story.

I got to this point and got stuck for some time. How could Proust manage to have two Narrator's and two stories? There was only one book! Eventually I had an aha moment. The book didn't change, I, the reader, changed. By reading the book completely I had uploaded the life of the Young Narrator. So now when the Old Narrator speaks of events, relationships, emotions in the Young Narrator's life I can follow closely and understand more fully. It made a big difference in my perception of the book!

On your thought Jonathan that Proust "breaks through" from time to time I waffled back and forth on that over the course of the first read. For now I don't see that. The "author" does drop in and directly address readers briefly. But it is not clear to me that the "Author" is Proust in the story. But I've learned that this is a narrative technique that is used by authors for reasons I really don't understand (look up "literary author"). I remember John Fowles did this in The French Lieutenant's Women. Proust wrote the book, I can't see a reason why he would insert himself into the story to tell the reader something.

[Renato]

What I'm enjoying the most on this re-read are the interior monologues! While I did pay attention to them before, now, of course, they mean so much more.

I also love how this double narration becomes clearer this second time around. I do feel like you, Dave, that the young narrator now seems only a character in the old narrator's story.

[Dave]

I'm glad to hear that Renato. Some validation is encouraging. Sometimes with these thoughts I totter along and feel I may have fallen off my barstool again.

[Jonathan]

Interesting stuff, Dave. But in what way is your second reading affected by thinking of it as an old narrator? And do you read it solely as from an old narrator now? I mean, when we were first reading it there was some confusion at times as the narrator would inform us of things that would happen in the future but then the narrator would also inform us of conversations, thoughts etc. that he presumably would never have known.

I found my recent re-reading of Combray Part I interesting because there was a lot of 'time-shifting' and 'narrator-confusion' in it and it was fun trying make sense of it; and it did make more sense having finished the whole book. But I abandoned (or paused) my re-reading of Part II because I could remember more or less everything I was reading and the narrative was relatively straightforward. Do you 'only' notice the 'old narrator' in all the volumes in your second reading?

I find the 'narrator' issue in novels in general a bit of a problem but it's one I usually don't fret over too much. What I mean is we may be told that the narrator is an uneducated person and then the text is in a very literary style, or we'll be told that they're writing something from memory and we get word perfect conversations etc, etc. I usually assume it's just a device to get the narrative going.

[Dave]

Good questions Jonathan. To date I have read VOL I, II, VII, second half of V and VI, and parts of III & IV. with the exception Swann in Love what I hear is the Old Narrator. This just happened when I became aware (I Don't remember exactly when) of the Old Narrator. I really don't understand why I can't switch back, other folks seem able to.

Regarding how it affects my thinking, first and foremost is certainty. You mention time shifts and narrative ambiguity. To the degree I catch such things, the Old Narrator perspective resolves such issues for me. Looking back, I realize I just breezed over a lot of text in the first read because I really didn't get it -now I get it, or at least get what I focus on. As I said in one of the earlier posts, it is usually in the interior monologues that the more significant new information insights occur. Remember he Vol II about Narrator and Albertine's relationship quote I pasted when we were in Vol VI? I noticed it on my own, but with Old Narrator's perspective I knew where that piece fit in the overall puzzle.

[Dave]

To add to the above, I have come to recognize over the last months that a useful technique for understanding how the story is told is to compare how my own mind works. Unannounced time-shifts? Well, one second I may be reading the electric bill at home and in the next thought I am thinking about a vacation thirty years ago. My mind does not announce thought shifts so I can at least understand how Proust is telling his story.

After thinking about it a few minutes, I think the biggest difference between the first and second read is that my emotion about events is muted and the story is heard in a reflective mode. The comedy is still there but the tirades about the squirrelly younger Narrator are gone and I've grown indulgent of the odd behavior of Marcel. This very much reminds me of remembering tempest tossed events in my youth and in my relationships with my children. Now such memories are reflected with dispassion and even humor.

[Marcelita]

Dave wrote: "Although it can only be seen as a summary of teaser you are on our side of the first read. ..

"--why do we need so many pages about a man tossing and turning trying to get to sleep? lol ..."

Maybe he was trying to move to a more comfortable position? ;)

"...my cheek was still warm from her kiss, my body ached beneath the weight of hers." MP

[Dave]

An early favorite quote: "And yet, as soon as I heard her “Bathilde! Come in and stop your husband drinking brandy,” in my cowardice I became at once a man, and did what all we grown men do when face to face with suffering and injustice: I preferred not to see them;"

[Jonathan]

Dave wrote: "Am I the only dirty old man that highlights the naughty parts? Speaking of the little room beside the school room and under the roof; "...my place of refuge, doubtless because it was the only room ..."

YES! It is only you Dave! I'm sure that Marcel meant something quite innocent when he mentioned 'sensual pleasure'....such as....smelling flowers....or wearing some nice clean socks...or something...

[Jonathan]

Clean socks, clean mind. :-)

[Marcelita]

Dave wrote: "An early favorite quote: "And yet, as soon as I heard her “Bathilde! Come in and stop your husband drinking brandy,” in my cowardice I became at once a man, and did what all we grown men do when face to face with suffering and injustice: I preferred not to see them;"

One of mine also--the cruel taunting of the great-aunt....knowing Amédée should not be drinking, but purposefully enabling him, even if only a few drops, while relishing Bathilde's anguish.

I hear this scene echoing, at the Verdurin's dinner table...with poor Saniette.