Many attempt to perform apologetics without Jesus?!

[Rod]

It's interesting reading through numerous apologetic groups and demonstrations and seeing the lack of JESUS throughout.

Is this what many of us have come to? What are your thoughts?

(thankfully there are occasions when Jesus is presented as top priority and focus.)

[Robert]

Rod - Some need to walk before they can run - if belief in a Creator is a necessary first step toward the acceptance of Christianity, I'm all for it.

[Lee]

I think it's easy to get confused between Jesus and Christianity. However, Robert has a point that some need to believe in Christianity before their eyes are opened to Jesus.

[Rod]

Good points to be sure.

But this is about those (LIKE US!) who are doing apologetics - not those necessarily on the receiving end. For them any starting point is fine. But eventually those points need to be focused on Jesus.

Lee there should be NO confusion between Jesus and Christianity. But since most humans are not that fond of the Biblical God - confusion will have to do as a substitute.

[Robert]

Who do they substitute for Jesus - Eli the Snake Charmer?

[Lee]

How would you approach apologetics then, Rod?

[David]

Rod, since I've known you on here you tend to talk far more about the Bible then about Jesus. And there is a large divide between Jesus and Christianity - one is the perfect God-man, the other is a flawed religion (though I'd say a bit less flawed then others) based on Jesus.

What is incredibly interesting to me is when I do bring Jesus into it I end up being told how unrealistic Jesus is. Talk about the sermon on the mount, turn the other cheek, give to those who take from you, and most Christians bend over backwards to explain how Jesus did not really mean those things.

I think you are right though, Jesus should be talked about more. I was talking with an atheist recently and it was the idea that Christians should live like Jesus - if someone breaks into our house we should let them take our stuff and not harm them, we should even die rather then kill - that truly offended him. He was arguing he can be as moral as a Christian, but it was in the specifics of living like Jesus that he realized he could not (though I suppose he'd not call those ways of Jesus "moral").

[Rod]

It's true: i'm pretty sure I talk more about the Bible and world religions than I do specifically about Jesus. You gotta start somewhere.

But i'm seeing a trend in the apologetics world: where arguments seldom ever arrive at Jesus. I've even seen numerous theologians argue theology for weeks...and never bringing in their love or testimony of Jesus.

Sometimes all of our efforts just become a long intellectual exercise. I applaud anyone who manages to include how Jesus has given everything meaning and love and truth.

[Robert]

David - it is true we should treat the alien who comes in peace as if he were a fellow Christian. But if he doesn't come in peace (say, breaks into my house and tries to steal my possessions or harm me and mine, I'm pretty sure I'm on safe ground Scripturally if I put a bullet in his head.

[Rod]

Robert I would tie the person down and let my wife lecture them for a few hours, then I'll discuss world religions with them... they might prefer a bullet.

But even that: start with what we know and relate to - then end up at Jesus.

[Robert]

Rod - you're right, that method of treating the alien is pure torture of the worst cruel and unusual variety. I bet he would prefer waterboarding!

[Kevin]

Rod wrote: "But i'm seeing a trend in the apologetics world: where arguments seldom ever arrive at Jesus. I've even seen numerous theologians argue theology for weeks...and never bringing in their love or testimony of Jesus.

Sometimes all of our efforts just become a long intellectual exercise. I applaud anyone who manages to include how Jesus has given everything meaning and love and truth."

Rod, I don't want to worry you … but do I detect the faintest hint of charismatic tendencies here?

I'm teasing, of course. But I agree that if all our arguing does not ultimately bring us back to the reality of Jesus' power to free us from bondage and thrill our souls with the sheer magnificence of who He is, then we are peddling an inferior gospel that is not worthy of the God we say we believe in.