To Kill a Mockingbird
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What does Scout refer to her father as Atticus?
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By any chance, can you point to a source? I have looked for that answer and found nothing definitive.
Yes, I've been struggling to find a definitive source too. I've read so much about TKAM over the years that I've long since forgotten where all this stuff in my head came from!A quick trawl through the internet finds a few snippets:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/bo...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=m...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u...
Papaphilly wrote: "Liliane wrote: "Apart from that, 'in this era of single parenting....' may even be older than you yourself are...."
I am plenty old enough to remember when divorce was uncommon. I was young in an ..."
So you actually agree, Scout calls her father Atticus, because she hears others do it. Atticus is unconventional enough, that he just lets it slide, like he generally does with his children.
I grew up in the 1960s, and I was a divorcee child, and like Jem and Scout, I was neglected, due to my mothers (I would never call her mum), studies and later career.
Yes, I think Denmark in many ways have been 'trendsetters' for future developments, and have been the first in many ways, USA is generally a very conservative country.
I am plenty old enough to remember when divorce was uncommon. I was young in an ..."
So you actually agree, Scout calls her father Atticus, because she hears others do it. Atticus is unconventional enough, that he just lets it slide, like he generally does with his children.
I grew up in the 1960s, and I was a divorcee child, and like Jem and Scout, I was neglected, due to my mothers (I would never call her mum), studies and later career.
Yes, I think Denmark in many ways have been 'trendsetters' for future developments, and have been the first in many ways, USA is generally a very conservative country.
Ramona wrote: "Well written, Papaphilly. I've been stating the same as you that I have never heard a child call their parent by their first name.....just because they had a single parent in the home. And, in toda..."
If you go back, you will see that I wrote, there is a possiblity,far from all do, but the possibility is there, that it may happen, especially if the children at the same time are left at lot to their own devices, as Jem and Scout is.
That you or Papaphilly, have never experienced it, does not mean much, as I have written previously, I have experienced it many many times, first and foremost, where there is only one parent, and where the children are neglected. I have especially seen it, in modern academic families, in a misunderstanding of equality between parent and child.
I feel sorry for children who grows up calling their parents by their first name, as every child need someone to call mum and dad, and preferably both. Because no matter how hard you try, a single parent will never make up for both.
Please read the Q&A here:
https://psychcentral.com/ask-the-ther...
If you go back, you will see that I wrote, there is a possiblity,far from all do, but the possibility is there, that it may happen, especially if the children at the same time are left at lot to their own devices, as Jem and Scout is.
That you or Papaphilly, have never experienced it, does not mean much, as I have written previously, I have experienced it many many times, first and foremost, where there is only one parent, and where the children are neglected. I have especially seen it, in modern academic families, in a misunderstanding of equality between parent and child.
I feel sorry for children who grows up calling their parents by their first name, as every child need someone to call mum and dad, and preferably both. Because no matter how hard you try, a single parent will never make up for both.
Please read the Q&A here:
https://psychcentral.com/ask-the-ther...
That's your opinion. It isn't everyone's. Different people, different cultures, different times.
Will wrote: "That's your opinion. It isn't everyone's. Different people, different cultures, different times."
Yes that is my opinion based on known psychology, not just where I come from, but anywhere in the world.
I do respect others who have different opinion, that is their good right, but don't express it, unless you are willing to have it challenged.
Yes that is my opinion based on known psychology, not just where I come from, but anywhere in the world.
I do respect others who have different opinion, that is their good right, but don't express it, unless you are willing to have it challenged.
Will wrote: "There is a simpler explanation. Harper Lee's father, Amasa Coleman Lee, was an attorney like Atticus Finch. In 1919, he unsuccessfully defended two black men accused of murder.
At the time it w..."
Thank you Will for your explanation which seems logical given Harper's background. I think most of us obviously represent the majority of the same opinions & conclusions to the same question, as you and Pappaphilly, have so well expressed, even though one person seems so intent on trying to insist that we accept her conclusion. "Different strokes for different folks." So entertainingly comical, that any one person should become so provoked & insist upon brow-beating her opinions onto readers. Hum, there may be another hidden psychological messages there. Can't wait. :)
Liliane wrote: "I do respect others who have different opinion, that is their good right, but don't express it, unless you are willing to have it challenged."Ditto.
Times change. It used to be a custom in some parts of the States to call your father "sir". That never caught on in the UK, and I think it's mostly died out now in the States.
Trawling through the internet, it seems that there is some mildly political debate about kids calling their parents by their first names. Some people support it because it allows for non-nuclear families, such as step parents. Some people criticise it for much the same reason.
I strongly doubt that Harper Lee would have been influenced by any of that when she called her father "AC" (Amasa Coleman) and then went on to have Scout call her father "Atticus".
What you are all forgetting, you see it from the point of adults and parents, and forget to ask/think about how children percieve it.
Only your children can call you mum and dad, no one else in the world, and I cannot even start to comprehend, why some parents would want to forego that.
Would you want not to have children, or not to have parents. For me a child calling their parents by their first name, is not disrespectful, but teenagers sometimes do it in purpose, as part of cutting the apron strings, as a way of telling their parents, "I am my own person now" and to put distance between themselves and their parents, but I am sure, there can be other reasons as well. I am sure there will be some that will tell me, that they did that, and it never made a difference. The exceptions which proves the rules.
Neither Jem nor Scout were teenagers, they learned it from others, and being a very preoccupied father, Atticus probably just accepted it, rather than changing it. A little sad. But a fantastic book.
The truth is Harper Lee may not even herself have known why?
Personally I would have loved to have had a father I could have called 'Dad', alas I did not, I hope others do appreciate that they do hae one.
Only your children can call you mum and dad, no one else in the world, and I cannot even start to comprehend, why some parents would want to forego that.
Would you want not to have children, or not to have parents. For me a child calling their parents by their first name, is not disrespectful, but teenagers sometimes do it in purpose, as part of cutting the apron strings, as a way of telling their parents, "I am my own person now" and to put distance between themselves and their parents, but I am sure, there can be other reasons as well. I am sure there will be some that will tell me, that they did that, and it never made a difference. The exceptions which proves the rules.
Neither Jem nor Scout were teenagers, they learned it from others, and being a very preoccupied father, Atticus probably just accepted it, rather than changing it. A little sad. But a fantastic book.
The truth is Harper Lee may not even herself have known why?
Personally I would have loved to have had a father I could have called 'Dad', alas I did not, I hope others do appreciate that they do hae one.
Unless a psychologist or a psychiatrist turns up and tells me, I am wrong, my opinion stands firm.
Papaphilly wrote: "By any chance, can you point to a source? I have looked for that answer and found nothing definitive."
https://psychcentral.com/ask-the-ther...
https://psychcentral.com/ask-the-ther...
Well, Lilliane, maybe you should peruse the publication you cited above, which differs from what you continue to expouse in defense of your insistence about single parenting causing children to call their parent by their 1st name. Again....you stated that Scout and many other children raised by a single parent, call their parent by their first name & cited the above publication to prove your interpretation. However, if you read the above-cited publication, it states that the daughter called "HER PARENTS" by their 1st name from the moment she began to talk. Her parents then divorced when the daughter was 8 yrs. old, so; therefore, the parent's divorce, nor, being raised by a single parent AFTER AGE 8......DID NOT contribute to the daughter not calling her mother "mom". She had already been addressing her mother by her first name way before that. Also, she was a well-adjusted daughter, made good grades, & it was suggested that only when she became a teenager, she was a bit precocious AS MOST TEENAGERS ARE. So, this is a moot point with reference to that paper.....the psychologist doesn't imply what you are implying at all. Perhaps your interpretation is what scientist call "JUNK SCIENCE."
Ramona wrote: "Well, Lilliane, maybe you should peruse the publication you cited above, which differs from what you continue to expouse in defense of your insistence about single parenting causing children to cal..."
Forget about what the mother asks, and please read the doctors answers, all of it.
You seem to take it very much to heart, one could suspect, that you yourself either grew up a single child, or am a single parent, since you deliberatly extract exactly what suits your argument.
What is your argument, what is it based on, do you have any documentation at all? Can you even give another solid reason, several have answered to the same effect as I, long before I did it, you have answered none of those, why is it exactly me you are jumping down the throat of?
I suggest a possible reason, well founded in psychology, I am not saying, that this is the end all and be all answer to the question, just that it is a possibility. And you literaly reject that such a reason can exist at all. If that is the case, please prove it.
Are you a bully or a troll?
I end the debate here, as this is below my level.
Forget about what the mother asks, and please read the doctors answers, all of it.
You seem to take it very much to heart, one could suspect, that you yourself either grew up a single child, or am a single parent, since you deliberatly extract exactly what suits your argument.
What is your argument, what is it based on, do you have any documentation at all? Can you even give another solid reason, several have answered to the same effect as I, long before I did it, you have answered none of those, why is it exactly me you are jumping down the throat of?
I suggest a possible reason, well founded in psychology, I am not saying, that this is the end all and be all answer to the question, just that it is a possibility. And you literaly reject that such a reason can exist at all. If that is the case, please prove it.
Are you a bully or a troll?
I end the debate here, as this is below my level.
No, you do not end the debate here. This is a public place and the debate will continue quite happily with or without you.As to whether this is below your level, that also is a matter of opinion.
Will wrote: "No, you do not end the debate here. This is a public place and the debate will continue quite happily with or without you.
As to whether this is below your level, that also is a matter of opinion."
Others may continue, but is is the end for me! Someone enjoys picking holes?!
This just proves to me, there are no social, only anti-social platforms on the internet!
As to whether this is below your level, that also is a matter of opinion."
Others may continue, but is is the end for me! Someone enjoys picking holes?!
This just proves to me, there are no social, only anti-social platforms on the internet!
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. -- Mark Twain
Interesting. I'm on several social media platforms and for the vast majority of the time, we get on just fine. We don't always agree, but then we don't fight each other tooth and nail when we disagree. We are prepared to listen to each others' opinions. We respect the fact that someone else's opinions might be as equally valid as our own. Sometimes we have to accept that we've got something wrong and change our point of view. I originally thought that Harper Lee had Scout call her father Atticus because she was trying to make a point about Atticus' personality. My view changed when I read that she called her father by his initials (AC).
Other people have different opinions. I listen to those too. Because I may need to change my point of view again if better information comes along.
Ultimately that's the message behind TKAM. Respect other people's opinions. Don't kill the mockingbirds.
It's not the platform that's the issue here.
Very well written Will. I find your point of view very interesting about Scout and it makes sense as well. I am sure that Harper Lee's intentions were quite simple for having Scout call her dad by his first name. I had a great childhood with a wonderful father and mother and 3 other siblings. I love reading books about the South. I have also discussed different books with different people and it has been very enjoyable, just as your perception has been with regards to TKAM. They don't feel threatened with differences of opinions. Also, I thought it was interesting that Scout was a Tomboy and friends with Truman Capote, and assisted him with his own book, "In Cold Blood." Harper Lee and Capote were "different", but talented people. Have a good day!
Sheila wrote: "Carol wrote: "I was browsing a book store and someone has written a book about all of this!! The Mockingbird Next Door, by Marja Mills. Evidently she knows the author and explains why Scout calls h..."While I see, Sheila, that your post was a few year's ago, I have just purchased The Mockingbird Next Door, by Marja Mills. Thanks for the recommendation. Hope you were able to read it.
Liliane wrote: "So you actually agree, Scout calls her father Atticus, because she hears others do it. Atticus is unconventional enough, that he just lets it slide, like he generally does with his children....."it is not that I agree or not, it is what is written in the novel. The better question: Why does Jem call Atticus by his first name?
BTW, if it was so common in the South at the time of the novel, why does Scout get asked why she calls Atticus by his first name? If it was so common, it would not even be a question.
Liliane wrote: "That you or Papaphilly, have never experienced it, does not mean much, as I have written previously, I have experienced it many many times, first and foremost, where there is only one parent, and where the children are neglected. I have especially seen it, in modern academic families, in a misunderstanding of equality between parent and child...."Please do not discount our personal experiences. I did not discount your experience. As I noted earlier, it is possible that both of our experiences are correct due to our places of domicile.
As the article you posed notes, the questioners experience is not the norm. It is the fact the she does not see her daughters behavior as normal that makes her write in the first place.
Carol wrote: "I was browsing a book store and someone has written a book about all of this!! The Mockingbird Next Door, by Marja Mills. Evidently she knows the author and explains why Scout calls her father Atti..."I read The Mockingbird Next Door this month, Feb. 2018, and unfortunately the author does not mention why the character, Scout, called her father Atticus. The book was mainly about Nelle Harper Lee's life during her ladder years before she died. It was a very good book revealing the simplicity of Harper Lee's life and how she did not want publicity, loved to read & was a very private person.
I'm glad to see that other people have questioned this! I see the point about equality between parent and child. I also wounder if Scout refers to her father as Atticus because she sees and appreciates him as a man not only as a parent. She is very aware of Atticus role in the community. Not only professionally but as a force for good and a voice of reason.
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Harper Lee's father, Amasa Coleman Lee, was an attorney like Atticus Finch. In 1919, he unsuccessfully defended two black men accused of murder.
At the time it was not uncommon for children, particularly in the southern states, to refer to their parents by name. It was seen as a mark of respect. I have read that Harper Lee did that with her own father.
So when she sits down to write the characters of Atticus Finch and Scout, it is perfectly natural for her to model them on her own relationship with her father and how she would have referred to him.
It only seems unusual to us because we're not used to it.
If she were still alive, I think that Harper Lee would have been amused by the imaginative explanations that people are coming up with for what she would have seen as the most natural thing in the world.