WE ARE OPEN - WEEK THREE - PRESIDENTIAL SERIES: LANDSLIDE - December 15th - December 21st - Chapter Three-No Spoilers, Please

[Vincent]

Bentley wrote: "Michael wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Yes Indeed - and that was why LBJ was on the ticket. JFK would never have been president at that point in history without Lyndon." I agree but I seem to remember re..."

Interesting thoughts - I do believe that likely they wanted LBJ to decline - keeping his power seat in the Senate - and then I think they would have had another southerner in mind to take the slot.

I think Bentley is half right - that without a southerner JKF would have lost - maybe I am half wrong and without LBJ he would have lost.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I have never seen anything written about any other candidate in the wings Vince. I think that was the storyline that the Kennedy’s circulated like Jackie circulated the Camelot story.

There is no way without Lyndon that Kennedy would have won.

From Wikipedia:

Biographers Robert Caro and W. Marvin Watson offer a different perspective; they write that the Kennedy campaign was desperate to win what was forecast to be a very close race against Richard Nixon and Henry Cabot Lodge II. Johnson was needed on the ticket to help carry Texas and the Southern states. Caro's research showed that on July 14, John Kennedy started the process while Johnson was still asleep. At 6:30 a.m. John Kennedy asked Robert Kennedy to prepare an estimate of upcoming electoral votes, "including Texas."[12] Robert called Pierre Salinger and Kenneth O'Donnell to assist him. Realizing the ramifications of counting Texas votes as their own, Salinger asked him whether he was considering a Kennedy-Johnson ticket, and Robert replied, yes.[12] Some time between 9 and 10 a.m., John Kennedy called Pennsylvania governor David L. Lawrence, a Johnson backer, to request that Lawrence nominate Johnson for vice-president if Johnson were to accept the role and then went to Johnson's suite to discuss a mutual ticket at 10:15 a.m. John Kennedy then returned to his suite to announce the Kennedy-Johnson ticket to his closest supporters and Northern political bosses. He accepted the congratulations of Ohio governor Michael DiSalle, Connecticut governor Abraham A. Ribicoff, Chicago mayor Richard J. Daley, and New York City mayor Robert F. Wagner, Jr.. Lawrence said that "Johnson has the strength where you need it most"; he then left to begin writing the nomination speech.[12] O'Donnell remembers being angry at what he considered a betrayal by John Kennedy, who had previously cast Johnson as anti-labor and anti-liberal. Afterward, Robert Kennedy visited with labor leaders who were extremely unhappy with the choice of Johnson and after seeing the depth of labor opposition to Johnson, he ran messages between the hotel suites of his brother and Johnson, apparently trying to undermine the proposed ticket without John Kennedy's authorization and to get Johnson to agree to be the Democratic Party chairman rather than vice president. Johnson refused to accept a change in plans unless it came directly from John Kennedy. Despite his brother's interference, John Kennedy was firm that Johnson was who he wanted as running mate and met with staffers such as Larry O'Brien, his national campaign manager, to say Johnson was to be vice-president. O'Brien recalled later that John Kennedy's words were wholly unexpected, but that after a brief consideration of the electoral vote situation, he thought "it was a stroke of genius".[12]

[Vincent]

Bentley wrote: "I have never seen anything written about any other candidate in the wings Vince. I think that was the storyline that the Kennedy’s circulated like Jackie circulated the Camelot story.

There is ..."

Thanks Bentley - I didn't know that.

[Martin]

Bobby's role just adds to the Byzantine intrigue of the Demos administrations. Just unpacked the Caro books and this just piques my interest in finishing them.

[Vincent]

Martin wrote: "Bobby's role just adds to the Byzantine intrigue of the Demos administrations. Just unpacked the Caro books and this just piques my interest in finishing them."

"Demos" ????

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I think he means Democrats.

[Lewis]

Interesting to speculate about LBJ's reaction/response to the Kennedys hanging around after November 22, 1963 (page 60)... Was he cowed or awed by them? Did he recognize that the public needed space to process the shock of the assassination? Was he waiting for the right moment to show who was now steering the ship? Perhaps all of the above...at any rate, a delicate moment in US history, a delicate moment in LBJ history...

[Lewis]

The death of a leader can cause major crisis and instability in many nations. Fortunately for LBJ, Americans tend to rally to the new leader (page 65) in times of stress or upheaval. Whether actual or not, it at least gave the perception that LBJ was consolidating his power and control...which perhaps was as important for himself to believe as for the citizens across the nations to believe...

[Lewis]

An interesting look at JFK's words and his actions... What would his presidency have looked like had he lived out his term or terms? How would history have measured him had that happened?

[Lewis]

Interesting to see how LBJ seemingly followed through on JFK's initiatives...both to honor the man, but also to establish himself (page 77)... Years later he could say, "This is what I was doing." But is that really what he was thinking at the moment when he was wrestling the wheel from the Kennedy clan?

[Lewis]

LBJ's great strength was rallying the Washington leaders to his side. He seemed to have the energy and capacity to do that, while also recognizing the necessity of doing so...rather than ignoring those who perhaps naturally might have been against him.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Hard to tell what JFK's presidency would have looked like - Bobby tried to call the shots by easing out LBJ but JFK hung tough on that decision and I think JFK was the one person Bobby was deeply in awe of. He loved his brother and would listen to him and JFK was the wild card. We knew he controlled the military in the Cuban Missile Crisis and maybe he would have listened to his own counsel and made a different more intelligent decision about Vietnam - but there is no guarantee that this would have happened.