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Passing
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Passing by Nella Larsen
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Looking forward to reading this one along with you. Who is joining us?
I hope to get this soon, and will definitely read it!
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passing_(...I found this explanation for the term Passing as it relates to racial identity. In what ways do you think this still applies today?
Liesl wrote: "https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passing_(...I found this explanation for the term Passing as it relates to racial identity. In what ways do you think this still applies today?"
Everything I read at the link applies today, in terms of why and where it occurs.
It is ironic that some people try to pass today as members of certain minority groups, such as Native Americans, in order to qualify for college scholarships or some other reason to their advantage. Passing traditionally meant trying to pass as white, but now it is whatever race or ethnicity will be most advantageous to specific situations.
Laurie wrote: "It is ironic that some people try to pass today as members of certain minority groups, such as Native Americans, in order to qualify for college scholarships or some other reason to their advantage..."I am not sure what the criteria is for these kind of scholarships or what the burden of proof is for supporting a claim. However, I like to think of the positive side of this. People are happy/proud to identify as being part of those minority groups. Hopefully that conscious choice leads them to make strides for those minority groups and give back to their communities.
So I guess that leads to another issue from this novel. To what extent is it a betrayal, both to one's own sense of identity and to the group, to pass ? What implications are there for that person, and all the people in their lives?
I started reading this book yesterday, not realizing this discussion thread was going on, what good timing! I'm reading the edition from Restless Books, with an intro by Darryl Pinckney, which I'll read after I read the story.
Nadine wrote: "I started reading this book yesterday, not realizing this discussion thread was going on, what good timing! I'm reading the edition from Restless Books, with an intro by Darryl Pinckney, which I'll..."That is the perfect version! I read Passing in 2016 and am still thinking about the ending, really, all of it. It’s a roller coaster ride of goodness.
"there was nothing sacrificial in Clare Kendry's idea of life, no allegiance beyond her own immediate desire. She was selfish, and cold, and hard... " Is Irene a reliable narrator? Did her descriptions of Clare, and the events that took place, influence the way that you viewed them?
It is still early in the month, so if you've finished (it is quite short) and plan to mention the ending please use the spoiler function.
Finished it last night, and this book has been growing like a weed on me! Great question about Irene as an unreliable narrator. I think she is in the sense that she represses lots of feelings with her near-obsession with propriety and appearances. What is she repressing? There willl be a lot to say about that when everyone is finished with the book :)
One question for everyone - I'm reading the edition published by Restless Books and the publisher's note says that they've preserved the original spelling and punctuation and have only done minimal editing of typography and grammar. So maybe that implies that other editions have changed the spelling and punctuation? My edition has occasional long sentences with kind of convoluted syntax. Is anyone finding or not finding this in other editions?
Nadine wrote: "One question for everyone - I'm reading the edition published by Restless Books and the publisher's note says that they've preserved the original spelling and punctuation and have only done minimal..."I'm not in the US so I've had to read this on a Kindle edition. I don't recall noticing any convoluted syntax or long sentences.
Irene spends most of the novella suggesting that she didn't want to spend time with Clare, yet she never put an end to the relationship. Why do you think that was?
Liesl wrote: "I'm not in the US so I've had to read this on a Kindle edition. I don't recall noticing any convoluted syntax or long sentences...."Hmm, I wonder if this is why small press Restless Books published this - to make a version that's closer to the original?
Liesl wrote: "Nadine wrote: "One question for everyone - I'm reading the edition published by Restless Books and the publisher's note says that they've preserved the original spelling and punctuation and have on..."I have a print copy from Dover Press, published 5-15 years ago. There were no problems with the text or language.
Here's an example sentence we can compare - it should be easy to find, it's in the third section, "Finale", on first page of chapter two, the 8th sentence from the top. Mine edition reads:"Desperately, she tried to shut out the knowledge from which had risen this turmoil, which she had no power to moderate or still, within her."
Is it the same in everyone else's edition?
Nadine wrote: "Here's an example sentence we can compare - it should be easy to find, it's in the third section, "Finale", on first page of chapter two, the 8th sentence from the top. Mine edition reads:"Desper..."
Yes, it is the same in my edition. I just took it as a representation of her thought process at the time. Externally she was portraying herself as a calm woman but internally she was not in control of what she was thinking or feeling.
Just started this, but I'm listening to the audiobook, read by Robin Miles.
Liesl wrote: "Irene spends most of the novella suggesting that she didn't want to spend time with Clare, yet she never put an end to the relationship. Why do you think that was?"A very quick read, I've finished already.
As you say, it seems as though Irene is almost obsessively pulled to thinking about Clare and her life. She discusses with her husband that however they may scorn someone who chooses to pass, they (the black community) also condone and protect that person anyways. Irene even says that she is "bound" to Clare through their racial connection, and I honestly think it all comes down to community. In my experience, small ethnic communities just tend to band together - especially in racially charged American times and communities - as they share racial, cultural, and religious ties. They also share a childhood - childhood friends and family, neighbors, school, and probably (though explicitly unsaid) church.
By the way, for anyone who doesn't have access to Darryl Pinckney's intro, it's available at LitHub with no firewall. I find the literary history of passing, and how it was treated by white vs black authors, a vital source of context in understanding Larsen's novel.https://lithub.com/passing-for-white-...
So if the character who is passing typically "pays" for her sin against society in white-authored literature, and given the ambiguous ending here, does Larsen intend for us to understand that Clare has or has not been punished? If she has, who or what is the punish-er?
For anyone who has also read Quicksand, did it change your interpretation of the ending of Passing? have no effect?
Carol wrote: "does Larsen intend for us to understand that Clare has or has not been punished? If she has, who or what is the punish-er?.."Thanks for that link Carol. I haven't read Quicksand but I will definitely add it to my reading list.
I felt that Clare had genuinely arrived at a point where she no longer cared if she was found out. She clearly had no attachment to her husband, and it seemed that she had little towards her daughter (of course that might have changed if she had thought about the lack of financial support she would receive in the event that he divorced her. I imagine at that time, it would not have been difficult for him to find a sympathetic judge. I also felt that in the case of divorce, he would disown the child as well).
To be honest, I never saw it as a punishment. I thought it was (view spoiler). In some ways, it could be seen as a punishment for (view spoiler) although I don't think there was any premeditation. It was a spontaneous, panic stricken response.
Another interesting question is whether you think the unfolding events are a punishment for Irene for knowing and supporting Clare's passing ? Or even for the times she has done it herself, like in the opening of the novella.
I found this commentary on the novella and found it very interesting. https://electricliterature.com/in-nel...
Liesl wrote: "I found this commentary on the novella and found it very interesting. https://electricliterature.com/in-nel..."
Thanks for this, Liesl - great article!
Liesl wrote: "Irene spends most of the novella suggesting that she didn't want to spend time with Clare, yet she never put an end to the relationship. Why do you think that was?"We are entering the final week of the month so I thought I might come back to this question. I came across a couple of discussions that mentioned that Irene was in love with/ or attracted to Clare and this was the reason for the continuing relationship.
I thought that I would open this up for anyone in the group who has specialised in the LGBT area for any thoughts they might have on it.
Started this today, and will comment as soon as I´m finished. Curious to how the relationship will develop.
Liesl wrote: "Liesl wrote: "Irene spends most of the novella suggesting that she didn't want to spend time with Clare, yet she never put an end to the relationship. Why do you think that was?"We are entering t..."
No specialty here, to state the obvious lol.
But . this is the third group discussion I’ve participated in on GR focused on Passing, but this is the first time I’ve seen this issue or potential raised, and it totally went over my head. I think I missed it because my recollection is, I didn’t perceive Irene as even liking Clare, let alone being attracted to her, but that’s no doubt a reflection of my own dirty lens.
In any event, given that a quick Google search reveals dozens of scholarly article on point, for anyone with interest or access via an academic library, there’s a lot out there that intrigued.
Here’s a link to a Medium article — from The NewYorker (2018) — that isn’t paywalled and provides examples of the support in the text for a view of Irene as sexually attracted to Clare, as well as discussing homosexuality during the Haarlem Renaissance. Spoilers about the ending appear early on.
https://medium.com/@womeninliterature...
Carol wrote: " Here’s a link to a Medium article — from The NewYorker (2018) — that isn’t paywalled and provides examples of the support in the text for a view of Irene as sexually attracted to Clare, as well as discussing homosexuality during the Haarlem Renaissance. Spoilers about the ending appear early on...."Thanks for the link to that article. The information about homosexuality during the Harlem Renaissance was very interesting. Moments like this, I miss my access to JSTOR as I would love to read Judith Butler's paper rather than an interpretation of it.
I hadn't noted any sexual attraction between Irene and Clare either. I felt that, initially, Irene had invited Clare out of an empathy for the childhood that she had. I also felt that there was a part of Irene that admired Clare's carefree attitude to life/racial identity and her lack of inhibition. I'm not sure that I would draw a line from admiration/envy to attraction.
I did find the comments about the way that Irene would gaze at Clare very interesting though. In feminist analysis, this type of gaze is generally the way that a male character looks at a female character. Although, sometimes I felt that Irene's descriptions of Clare's behaviour were tinged with a little condescension/judgment rather than admiration.
Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: " Here’s a link to a Medium article — from The NewYorker (2018) — that isn’t paywalled and provides examples of the support in the text for a view of Irene as sexually attracted to Cla..."That's what I picked up - the condescension and judgment - it didn't seem to be modified by a, "but she's attractive" on any personal level. I'd summarize her thinking as, "what a shallow, self-serving strumpet" even when being outwardly polite. I understand the female/male gaze analysis, but the implications here feel like a little bit of a stretch, although certainly worthy of exploration.
I'd dearly love to access the Judith Butler paper, too.
Liesl wrote: "Liesl wrote: "Irene spends most of the novella suggesting that she didn't want to spend time with Clare, yet she never put an end to the relationship. Why do you think that was?"We are entering t..."
I am definitely not specialised in LGBT literary analysis and history - particularly not as it pertains to the Harlem Renaissance. Just a disclaimer. Though I will freely own that I do often tend to read a lot of lesbian and gay subtext into a lot of books where others don't necessarily see it (at least judging from my irl book group!)
I was aware of this reading before reading Passing that the relationship between the central characters had been interpreted that way in a lot of literary analysis, though I deliberately avoided reading any of that before reading the book. Just getting into it now, thanks for the link!
Like others have said, though, I didn't really feel it that way while reading. It felt more like a complicated jealousy/condescension/admiration/self judgement than anything romantic to me. But it's certainly an interesting perspective and the fact that I didn't read it that way at first read through certainly doesn't invalidate it. I actually really like it as a reading that Irene is deeply closeted, even to herself, and projecting her own repressed feelings onto her husband when there is in fact nothing going on beyond her own paranoia. I think it's left ambiguous enough that you can read the relationship either way (much like the ambiguity around what happens in the final scene). And it does make Irene slightly more interesting!
@Louise - you've reminded me of something I find brilliant about Larsen. She has a deft hand at creating characters who are easy to dislike and difficult to like. Really, they're mostly difficult. Moralistic, priggish, judgy. Her protagonist in Quicksand is the same. But the narratives are compelling. Passing is more successful than Quicksand, in my view, because the ambiguous ending has the makings of a literary bar fight. It can't be settled either way and is so much fun to debate. Quicksand doesn't have that; instead it has the protagonist who seems to cut off her nose to spite her face (as my mom would have said), but the reader is all in on the ride. On a different note, I looked back through the thread and don't see a link to this BlackHistoryNow.com bio which includes some info on Larsen's personal experience of observing nuclear family members' passing.
http://blackhistorynow.com/nella-larsen/
Excerpt:
Larsen was born Nellie Walker on April 13, 1891, in Chicago, Illinois, to immigrant parents. Her father, Peter Walker, was a black cook from the West Indies, and her mother, Mary Hanson, was a Danish seamstress. Soon after Larsen was born, her father disappeared. Her mother remarried a white man named Peter Larsen. Official marriage records and documents regarding the name change to Nella Larsen are nonexistent, leading some historians to believe that Peter Walker and Peter Larsen were the same man, and that the former had simply wanted to reinvent himself and become “White.” Larsen’s tendency throughout her life to invent stories and hold fast secrets only fed the mystery of her young life. Whatever the facts, when Larsen’s younger sister was born, Larsen herself was the only visibly black person in her nuclear family. This difficult dynamic was exacerbated by her claim that Peter Larsen was ashamed of his African American daughter.
The bio includes other details on her marriage, his cheating on her with a white woman, the scandalous divorce, (unfounded) plagiarism accusation and more.
I finished this today, and was quite diappointed that it didn´t (imo) deal so much with Passing and racial identity, but with relationships as such. There seems to me that Irene is envious of Clare, but perhaps more because of her good looks, and even thinks her husband is betraying her with Clare. The life of both families seem to me to be quite bourgois, be they from whatever "race".
I found it interesting that both of the men in the story were fascinated with South America. Jack Bellows with his gold from South America and Brian with his hope that moving to Brazil would be an improvement for him. (view spoiler)
Nadine wrote: "One question for everyone - I'm reading the edition published by Restless Books and the publisher's note says that they've preserved the original spelling and punctuation and have only done minimal..."I didn't see a lesbian angle in this one. I clearly see the tension in Irene and Brian's marriage with the conflicts they have over Brian's career, the question of Brazil, disagreement over how to handle the boys, etc. It's not a huge leap to guess they have sexual issues in their relationship based on Brian's comment that the son should learn that sex is a joke early on. However, I don't know that I would use the fact they have separate bedrooms as evidence there. The edition that I read came with a note that the separate bedrooms was common among people who wanted to prove social class, which would fit with Irene's desire to be highc class. She had a servant (I think 2 of them?) even.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Quicksand (other topics)Passing (other topics)
Liesl will be reading discussion this month, but here's a quick blurb and a v brief bit of information on the author.
Passing
Irene Redfield, the novel's protagonist, is a woman with an enviable life. She and her husband, Brian, a prominent physician, share a comfortable Harlem town house with their sons. Her work arranging charity balls that gather Harlem's elite creates a sense of purpose and respectability for Irene. But her hold on this world begins to slip the day she encounters Clare Kendry, a childhood friend with whom she had lost touch. Clare—light-skinned, beautiful, and charming—tells Irene how, after her father's death, she left behind the black neighborhood of her adolescence and began passing for white, hiding her true identity from everyone, including her racist husband. As Clare begins inserting herself into Irene's life, Irene is thrown into a panic, terrified of the consequences of Clare's dangerous behavior. And when Clare witnesses the vibrancy and energy of the community she left behind, her burning desire to come back threatens to shatter her careful deception.
Nella Larsen (Full article on Wikipedia)
Nellallitea "Nella" Larsen, born Nellie Walker, was an American novelist of the Harlem Renaissance. Working as a nurse and a librarian, she published two novels, Quicksand (1928) and Passing (1929), and a few short stories. Though her literary output was scant, she earned recognition by her contemporaries.
A revival of interest in her writing has occurred since the late 20th century, when issues of racial and sexual identity have been studied. Her works have been the subjects of numerous academic studies, and she is now widely lauded as "not only the premier novelist of the Harlem Renaissance, but also an important figure in American modernism."