The Dresden Files Read-Along discussion
Open Thread
Caryl wrote: "I suppose that depends on your definition. According to the hints in the trailer I think You are correct, as far as White Court protection goes, at least."@Caryl -- to which message is this a reply? I'm lost.
WARNING: Even though this is the open thread; if you're waiting to read the pre-released chapters of Peace Talks until the book is released you might want to skip this post.I am just picturing Harry in court:
* Putting a salt circle around himself every time he's sitting at the defense table
* The defense attorney taping his mouth shut so he doesn't end up incarcerated for contempt of court
* All the recording equipment, the microphones and lights exploding and shorting out any time negative evidence is presented or the prosecutor manipulates the testimony negatively
* A Fae scion as the defense attorney running rings around the vanilla mortal prosecutor.
Hey, Mab can't have her Knight locked up by vanilla authorities - And he's only in this fix because he was doing her bidding. You know the Fae can out argue any vanilla mortal.
* Harry fretting about how to keep Murphy out of jail. -Though there's very little evidence they can have on Murphy since she wasn't in the building where the accountant died and was in the hospital when the actual vault heist went down. The only thing they have on her is her association with Dresden and her injuries. And since the information on her injuries COULD NOT have been legally attained, it wouldn't be admissible in court.
* Rudolph on the witness stand being outted as the vindictive weasel that he is by the defense attorney and Harry grinning ear to ear as Rudolph is hoist by his own petard.
JB probably won't write it this way but I think Murphy has a strong case for wrongful dismissal. She could claim that Rudolph's continual and personal harassment exacerbated a latent PTSD she sustained during Fool Moon's storyline and that's why she had 2 'blackouts' which caused her to go AWOL during those two critical times. She'd still never be a cop again with PTSD and a history of blackouts on her record but she could destroy Rudolph's career And improve her pension situation; maybe even a nice settlement; maybe even prevent further personal vendettas by IA investigators.
Pure speculation that is almost certainly not plot related but just made me laugh.
Caryl wrote: "WARNING: Even though this is the open thread; if you're waiting to read the pre-released chapters of Peace Talks until the book is released you might want to skip this post.The only thing they have on her is her association with Dresden and her injuries..."
I dunno, with a friendly judge and that apparent traffic camera photo they might be able to make a speeding charge stick. Three points on her license -- that'll teach her! :-)
Steven wrote: "Caryl wrote: "WARNING: Even though this is the open thread; if you're waiting to read the pre-released chapters of Peace Talks until the book is released you might want to skip this post.The onl..."
Big Grin
So far Nicodemus has been in the thick of things in books 5, 10, and 15. Since Peace Talks got split into two books, will JB rearrange the order of the remaining books to keep the schedule the same, or will he push Nick's return to book 21? He's done such things before -- Proven Guilty was originally supposed to be published before Dead Beat, but the publisher wanted something with more bang! pow! Sue! in it for the first hardback in the series. I've seen him say there will probably be at least one extra book in the series due to this (maybe two, for a total of 25) but he didn't say anything about the Denarian schedule.
Chapter 6 is out - at the end of chapter 5 Murphy called Harry to her to try again, looks like they did figure something out.That makes the scene from the trailer weird - Harry is supposed to be protected again, no? Larra is not supposed to be able to touch him?
But then again, it's probably more complicated this time around, since he is with Mab, and he cant belong to another when he does belong to her...
That was the problem they were avoiding at Will and Georgia's wedding...
Oh, well - even when he was protected by Susan he was still attracted to Lara - she is a very attractive woman/succubus...
Yasmin wrote: "Chapter 6 is out - at the end of chapter 5 Murphy called Harry to her to try again, looks like they did figure something out.That makes the scene from the trailer weird - Harry is supposed to be p..."
Harry is now loaned out to Lara -- we saw how well that went for Nicodemus. Let's hope for Lara's sake (and Thomas's) that Mab doesn't have a big secret grudge against her, too.
Yasmin wrote: "... That was the problem they were avoiding at Will and Georgia's wedding...."There were White Court in Something Borrowed? Where? I just now reread it and didn't see them.
Steven wrote: "Yasmin wrote: "... That was the problem they were avoiding at Will and Georgia's wedding...."There were White Court in Something Borrowed? Where? I just now reread it and didn't see them."
No White Court in that short story. It was Maeve and Jenny Greenteeth who were thwarted in that one. I believe it's being suggested that the same principle of, belonging to another in an 'official' capacity, undoing the magical protection might apply. We shall soon find out, I hope.
I was talking about the kiss not being Pure True Love if Will was married to Jenny - which is weird if you think about it - since when marriage = true love?Too many couples are not the real thing - and the cheating statistics just keep climbing. If a person marrys someone, and then falls out of love with them and in love with another person, they can't be considered truely in love with them? Divorce is just a bit of paper too...
The time limitation on wakimg Georgia make more sense, but Bob stated Will would have been bound in some way to Jenny, and now Harry is very much bound to Mab - so no true love for him until he gets out of this?
Yasmin wrote: "I was talking about Pure True Love if Will was married to Jenny - which is weird if you think about it - since when marriage = true love?Too many couples are not the real thing ..."
That last sentence is a strong possibility IMO.
And since this is the Open Thread; what punishment do you think Mab will dish out on Lara since the trailer hints strongly that Lara ignores Mab's warnings to keep her paws off Dresden? At least, that's how I interpreted the 3 bears analogy.
Caryl wrote: "... what punishment do you think Mab will dish out on Lara since the trailer hints strongly that Lara ignores Mab's warnings to keep her paws off Dresden?"In the trailer she obviously touches Harry, but I thought paws off was meant as don't try to feed more than don't touch. [Or, maybe I'm just a secret Lara fanboy and this is wishful thinking?] After all, Mab was pretty explicit that Harry has to fulfill Lara's requests so long as they don't go against Winter. Steal. Kill. Whatever. If Lara says Chippendale me, I think Harry better get hopping, so long as Lara doesn't try to feed off him, or have him do it in a place where it would embarrass Mab.
If Lara does violate the restriction, Mab might be able to impose the same punishment Lord Raith got from Margaret's death curse. WoJ says Mab could rip the Hunger right out of a White Court vampire, but the result wouldn't be pretty.
Caryl wrote: "Only a few more days to find out! :-D"Yes, just a few more calendar-checking, clock-watching, agonizing, sleepless, empty, nail-biting days. While waiting for it to arrive, food is tasteless (even pizza -- have you had pizza?!), the milk of human kindness has soured, flowers have no smell, the mattresses have all gone lumpy, and even music just isn't doing whatever it is that music is supposed to do.
Get me outta here, Mr. Wizard!
Steven wrote: "Caryl wrote: "Only a few more days to find out! :-D"Yes, just a few more calendar-checking, clock-watching, agonizing, sleepless, empty, nail-biting days. While waiting for it to arrive, food is ..."
In other words, you'll be up no later than 12:05 AM making sure Peace Talks is downloading and will be reading it one minute after the download is complete. Like me!
Caryl wrote: "Steven wrote: "Caryl wrote: "Only a few more days to find out! :-D"Yes, just a few more calendar-checking, clock-watching, agonizing, sleepless, empty, nail-biting days. While waiting for it to a..."
Oh, I'll be hitting synch on the Kindle before then just in case Amazon's clocks are off.
Okay, so i'm just getting this train of thought out of my head and on to the page here, but.The connection between harry and Mab really shouldn't be compared to the protection afforded by the Making love with someone you love thing that keeps white court vamps from feeding on victims. Because that protection is a thing of the soul and what Mab has done with harry and the Winter Knight mantle is a thing of the body and possibly the mind but as Uriel explained to harry at the end of Ghost Story and Harry has been trying to explain to everyone else ever since, the mantle does not give her any level of ownership of the soul.
Basically, Harry allowed the Winter Mantle in to his mind and body by accepting the mantle. And yes, that has the potential of changing it's host through the influence it exerts on their motivations and thinking. But neither it nor Mab can actually affect the soul of the person, only the body they use.
Sooo, Him being the Winter Knight will not interfere with his ability to form the Love bond with Karen So Once the two of them actually get around to performing an act of genuine (leaving out the word True here due to it's connotations) Love, Harry will regain his protection from White Court vamps feeding on him.
As for the Jenny Greenteeth at the wedding issue. That was less about the love and more about the formally handing over a part of your soul to another through the ritual of marriage. harkening back to the whole magic is about what you believe thing.Because Billy would have been willingly bonding a part of his sould to Jenny Greenteeth, she would have had a level of power over him that would have exceeded even that of a deal struck.
And while i'm up here on this big box. It has been pissing me off since Cold Days that everyone who knows Harry in Chicago is aware that he lived with a freaking fallen angel in his head for several years and never allowed his soul to be tainted by the whispering in his head and yet they think that he's going to cave because the mantle is pushing some of his hormones to take a few more primal actions instead of his usual monk like choices. And yes, I know that they know not what they do and all that, acting from ignorance. But it still drives me crazy.
Venting done now, I'm feel much better now.
Caryl wrote: "Yasmin wrote: "I was talking about Pure True Love if Will was married to Jenny - which is weird if you think about it - since when marriage = true love?Too many couples are not the real thing ..."..."
It goes like this - Lara is a very attractive woman to Harry. He stated it several times that she turns him on regardless of her Hunger, and she did kiss him when they escaped the Wraith Deep the 2nd time to power the shield to survive the explosion. She got excited and started trying to Feed on him until the protection kicked in. He didn't stop her, she pulled back when she started to burn.
If they were in a situation like that again for whatever reason, there is no True Love protection for Harry now - if Lara doesn't pull back on her own, I don't think Harry could stop it himself, regardless of how he feels about Karrin.
Maybe Lara will take Mab's warning to heart - I don't think Mab had anything specific in mind - she has faith in Harry to kick Lara's ass when he wakes up enough to figure out what she's done. Harry does manage to overcome very addictive stuff like Red Court Venom and the Coin and the Winter Mantle - he has very strong Willpower, I don't think Lara can force him for long.
Chris wrote: "Okay, so i'm just getting this train of thought out of my head and on to the page here, but.The connection between harry and Mab really shouldn't be compared to the protection afforded by the Mak..."
how many people did know Harry had the coin? The Knights did, but they trusted him. Some of the others like Butters and Murphy knew - and Butters did not trust Harry in SG at all. I'm not sure how many other people know - the Aphas maybe, but what they say to Harry to cheer him up may not be what they actually think about his chances of resisting the bad impulses...
What if what we saw in the trailer with Harry and Lara is part of the thing that caused the tickle in the throat or the ectoplasmic pot of boiling water? We don't know what kind of illness or side effect that may be yet either.Only a few more hours before I can start getting some answers!
Finished reading Zoo Day - I am officially ready for Peace Talks. Yay...
Caryl wrote: "In other words, you'll be up no later than 12:05 AM making sure Peace Talks is downloading and will be reading it one minute after the download is complete. Like me!."Downloaded 12:16 AM. Suddenly I'm hesitant to start -- afraid I'll devour it, and then what will I do until September? Maybe just one chapter now ...
Steven wrote: "Maybe just one chapter now..."oops.
Well, there's time to reread all 16 before Battle Ground shows up.
Chris wrote: "Okay, so i'm just getting this train of thought out of my head and on to the page here, but.The connection between harry and Mab really shouldn't be compared to the protection afforded by the Mak..."
OK - (view spoiler)
Waiting for my local book store to open to get Peace Talks was torture. Just finished. Now I have to wait until September!!!!! I guess I'll just have to read Peace Talks again but more slowly this time savoring each line. There were definite moments in the book where I had to put it down walk around the room, take deep breaths, and curse Jim Butcher and his skill with the written word. Any one else or was that just me?
Nasim wrote: "Waiting for my local book store to open to get Peace Talks was torture. Just finished. Now I have to wait until September!!!!! I guess I'll just have to read Peace Talks again but more slowly this ..."I am right there with you
Nasim wrote: "Any one else or was that just me? ..."not just you.
Nasim wrote: "Waiting for my local book store to open to get Peace Talks was torture. Just finished. Now I have to wait until September!!!!! I guess I'll just have to read Peace Talks again but more slowly this ..."Word!
Priscilla has let it be known that Battle Ground preview chapters will be posted in the weeks before the release. She didn't say when or how many.
Steven wrote: "Priscilla has let it be known that Battle Ground preview chapters will be posted in the weeks before the release. She didn't say when or how many."Great!
Just figured something out! Leanansidhe was working with Molly during the timeskip between death and life… and we now know it was a form of preparation – vessel for the mantle of faerie power, a needful backup plan.Our dear Mols though, she describes Lea’s attitude when playing her part as Ragged Lady similar to “a kid on Christmas morning.” Defending a major mortal city from death, horror, and pain is fun for her.
Of course it is! What’s Leanansdhe’s day job? Oh right, protecting the boarders of reality from Outsider menace when Mab can’t be there to do it herself. Compared to that, a street war in Chicago with little to no outside assistance is… it’s just of such hilariously low stakes. Kinda relaxing. Like playing paintball with her mates. I love this series, the more I think about it the more facets of awesomeness I find!
Paulum Mortis wrote: " I love this series, the more I think about it the more facets of awesomeness I find! "Indeed. One of my favorite literary worlds, if not the favorite.
Paulum Mortis wrote: "Just figured something out! Leanansidhe was working with Molly during the timeskip between death and life… and we now know it was a form of preparation – vessel for the mantle of faerie power, a ne..."or she gets to mess with and kill humans - which she likes to do. evil faery and all...
I'm suffering withdraul symptoms - waiting 3 months after reading this series every day is hard. I was looking at the books in the Goodreads top 100 fantasy stories (both Storm Front and the Furies of Cauldaron are on the list - nice going!) - and started The Name Of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. It's more classic fantasy - middle ages setting, not modern urban - but there is a little bit of familiar Dresden around - the protagonist tells he started learning magic from a wandering magician with a very similar advertizing to Harry's ad...Other than that - not really the same style - maybe I should try to look up the authors from the short-stories collections. There should be some more wize-cracking wizards around...
Yasmin wrote: "I'm suffering withdraul symptoms - waiting 3 months after reading this series every day is hard. I was looking at the books in the Goodreads top 100 fantasy stories (both Storm Front and the Furies..."For UF with a wise cracking character and lots of magic and monsters, have you tried Orlando Sanchez's Montague and Strong Detective Agency series? Another is the Quincy Harker series by John G Hartness. Both are self published.
Yasmin wrote: "Paulum Mortis wrote: "Just figured something out! Leanansidhe was working with Molly during the timeskip between death and life… and we now know it was a form of preparation – vessel for the mantle..."Fairie queens aren't allowed to kill human outright. That's what they have Knights for. But if the rules are changing.....
Caryl wrote: "Yasmin wrote: "Paulum Mortis wrote: "Just figured something out! Leanansidhe was working with Molly during the timeskip between death and life… and we now know it was a form of preparation – vessel..."1) Lea is not a Queen, and she's going around replacing Harry to Molly.
2) Molly did say how she was actually killing humans - illusions - making them see what's not there and causing them to shoot each other or hurt themselves other ways (Harry had a list when Lash was in his head - it's extremely dangerous walking around unaware of your enviroment in a bustling city).
No reason to think Lea would phyisically assault anybody if she doesn't have to.
She would get a kick out of seeing humans bumbling around getting killed.
Beverly wrote, Yasmin wrote: “I'm suffering withdraul symptoms - waiting 3 months after reading this series every day is hard…”The Fantasy Fiction Formula by Deborah Chester
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
My suggestion of how to spend some of your time over the next couple weeks – after redacting like fifty less appropriate book recommendations anyway. In case you don’t know the story, Deborah Chester is the woman who taught Jim pretty much everything he needed to know about writing an awesome series, and this is a detailed, step-by-step guide in how to do it yourself…
Even if you’re not interested in writing the same way as I, buy it anyways. It could be viewed as a “The Making of the Dresden Files.”
Yasmin wrote: "Caryl wrote: "Yasmin wrote: "Paulum Mortis wrote: "Just figured something out! Leanansidhe was working with Molly during the timeskip between death and life… and we now know it was a form of prepar..."Good points.
1) Lea's not a queen but she is both Harry's Godmother, family obligation, and Mab's second. As we saw at the end of Cold Days, Mab intended Molly to be prepared as a backup and Lea was her tool.
2) Yet, the transformation to Winter Lady is also a protection against the White Council because -as you pointed out- her illusions caused human deaths by magical means. Even though it's an indirect cause and effect I believe the wizards and wardens would firmly class Molly as a warlock now.
This could be a strike against Harry in the Council's vote as well. He is/was under the Doom with her. According to the way the Doom works they both should be executed. Even though he was technically dead -loophole?- and, perhaps, no longer considered responsible for her misdeeds at the time. However, now that they're tied to the Winter Court they can't be.
Yasmin wrote: "I'm suffering withdraul symptoms - waiting 3 months after reading this series every day is hard. ..."Read an interview with JB somewhere (got to start keeping track!) wherein they asked him what he reads. His response included Fated (Alex Verus book 1) by Benedict Jacka. Alex runs a shop in London selling magical aids, implements and artifacts. In the first chapter Alex is talking about how hard it is to get word out without attracting the wrong sort of customer or sounding crazy.
The majority rely on word of mouth, though younger mages use the Internet. I've even heard of one guy in Chicago who advertises in the phone book under "Wizard," though that's probably an urban legend.Well, no wonder JB likes it. :-)
If you want something lighter in tone, try anything by Christopher Moore that's on sale. He writes standalone books and short (2 or 3 books) series.
If you want something darker than Dresden, Richard Kadrey's Sandman Slim series keeps me going back for more.
Speculation and change of subject. JB has been attributed with saying that he's thought of something new to mess with Harry. We all know that means making poor Harry's life worse. One way to do that would be if..... -Oh horrible thought!- Maggie is a changeling!It could happen! She's not been with Harry for long at all and was left in the care of vanilla mortals. Harry is way to involved in Fae life and politics, especially now. Oooo, what do you think?!
Caryl wrote: "... horrible thought!- Maggie is a changeling!."Okay, but a changeling with what, though? We know her parents, unless Susan was lying and Harry's been deluding himself. Oh yeah, and Uriel was lying. Does being a changeling just happen? Color me confused.
Caryl wrote: "Speculation and change of subject. JB has been attributed with saying that he's thought of something new to mess with Harry. We all know that means making poor Harry's life worse. One way to do tha..."Um, no. That would be a stretch even for the devious mind of Jim Butcher.
Beverly wrote: "That would be a stretch even for the devious mind of Jim Butcher."Oh-oh. I just realized that Uriel said that Maggie was Harry's. He never said she was Susan's. Dammit, where's my tinfoil suit!?
Beverly wrote: "Caryl wrote: "Speculation and change of subject. JB has been attributed with saying that he's thought of something new to mess with Harry. We all know that means making poor Harry's life worse. One..."I certainly hope you are correct, but the thought flitted through and I needed reassurance. ;-)
Steven wrote: "Caryl wrote: "... horrible thought!- Maggie is a changeling!."Okay, but a changeling with what, though? We know her parents, unless Susan was lying and Harry's been deluding himself. Oh w, and..."
Fae are wont to substitute their offspring with mortal ones and Maggie has been away from Harry for at least 2 years during the events of Cold Days and Skin Game. She could have been substituted at any point after leaving Harry at the end of Skin Game while she was too shocked and traumatize to communicate. Nobody, other than the late Susan Rodriquez, knew her personality or traits at that point, only her physical appearance.
While unlikely, it's a possibility.
Zoo day is from Maggie's POV, and Mouse will notice if something tried to grab her. Also - I know Fae can enter the Carpenters' house, but again - Mouse would raise an alarm.Being a single working father is hard enough for a regular child, not to mention the possibility that Maggie would have magical abilities and they should be manifesting soon.
Another thing - the term Changeling was used in Summer Knight to describe the fae halfbreeds - half mortal and half fae - we know who Harry slept with, and it wasn't fae.
Hmm, the argument that Mouse would have noticed the swap persuades me that this is one theory I can now dismiss.However, Fae changelings in mythology are not scions but are, instead, whole replacements/ substitutes.
*Edit: Intended in response to messages 298 & 300. Sorry for the ambiguity.