The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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The Goldsmiths Prize
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2020 Goldsmiths Prize Speculation
"Ah - the rules have I think been changed from the Listopia ones"No the Listopia rules are completely correct (umm, errr, at least they are now after I have corrected them!)
I'd forgotten - have just added - The Mermaid of Black Conch: A Love Story which I'd predicted may feature on the Booker. That could have a chance.
Gumble's Yard wrote: "And what books fail the Goldsmith alumni ban"In roughly descending order of likelihood of making the list otherwise:
Love and Other Thought Experiments by Sophie Ward
How Pale the Winter Has Made Us by Adam Scovell
Mordew by Alex Pheby
Box Hill by Adam Mars-Jones
First two would be very strong contenders otherwise
Gumble's Yard wrote: "Are there any past judges who are eligible - other then McBride? That's always a good indication for this prize which is fairly incestuous."I think only McBride qualifies on the previous judge rule
But the tendency to re-feature previously featured authors also points to McBride, but also Lars Iyer, Vesna Main (who should win it this year), Ali Smith (with usual disclaimer) and Anakana Schofield
Although those I'd already all added to the list - there may be others.
It is time to get hyped for my favourite book prize. Last years list was so surprising and I hope it is the same this year.
Happy there won't be any Ducks.
Ducks might be another 6* book(Paul will understand that, nobody else needs to).
Just in case anyone is wondering - there will be no "no spoiler" rule around the Goldsmiths.
I would describe last year’s list as a pleasant partial surprise in the sense we’d called (and I’d read) 5 of the 6 books, just weren’t confident they’d actually figure - seeing We are Made of Diamond Stuff and Good Day! suddenly appear on the screen was an exciting moment as was the recognition of the work of small presses. My real hope this year is they do address what GY has rightly pointed out is a real issue with the award (and is part of Isabel Waidner’s key themes in her writing), the real lack of diversity in canon of avant-garde literature and this prize’s shortlist in past years.
Paul, The Baudelaire Fractal is on Listopia. There is a brief bio in the book that Lisa Robertson was born in Toronto and now lives in France. It looks like it doesn't meet the Goldsmiths' residency/citizenship requirement for the author.
I also don’t think it has been UK/Irish published. I am just a little loathe to delete books others have added but this one does feel it should be.
I did already add a note to the list that I didn't think this one was eligible but I may leave it there for now.
I loved Hamnet, but unless I’m not understanding what the Goldsmith awards I’m surprised to see it listed. It’s a lovely , effecting story, and pretty straightforward work of historical fiction. Which books do you feel certain will be nominated? I have 3 of the 4 books in Paul’s post #53 above and The Mermaid of Black Conch.
Three people (none of them me) voted for Hamnet and it's eligible so that's why it's there.Perhaps one of the voters - paging GY - can explain their view, as I've not read it so can't opine. But on the Woman's Prize it seems to have been considered one of the more innovative/unusual books from more mainstream reviewers.
As for certain - I'm not certain of anything.I think Liar's Dictionary has a very strong chance, along with That Reminds Me (the oddest omission from the Booker) and Exquisite Cadavers.
Message 64 by Wendy plus Message 65 by Paul means Val does not have to look up where exactly she said she did not think Hamnet would be on the list.
I am not criticizing Hamnet, I loved it, but just as Hamnet would not be a good choice for the Hugo, it doesn’t make sense for the Goldsmith.I’ve heard quite a bit about That Reminds Me so I should get that soon and start reading. I think I’m going to DNF Who they Was and start on possible Goldsmith books that I already have. I have The Liar's Dictionary, I can start with that.
I would say the "possible Goldsmiths" do come with a health warning. We've been oddly successful at calling the list in the past - usually get 5 or even all 6 of the books from the 20-30 we highlight.But one year we're going to get a list we didn't see coming. Two years ago the judges seemed to rather rewrite the rules in terms of innovation.
And any other suggestions for the list gladly received.
I trust the group based on past predictions and even if the books are Longlisted they are sure to be well worth reading, but I will be starting with books I already have on my shelves.
Goldsmiths doesn't have a longlist, Wendy, but I agree they're generally worth reading. It's a good prize. I personally hope there will be several no one has thought of.
That makes things a bit easier. Thanks, Ang.
On reflection I've taken off Baudelaire Fractal given it fails two eligibility criteria.I have also had to delete one book from the list on the grounds that the book hasn't even been published yet - if it has been entered then the ferocious non-disclosure agreement that the judges would have to have signed would make the Atwood/Booker one look like a pussy cat. Sorry GY - the Song of Fire and Ice series may or may not be Goldsmiths worthy (view spoiler) but an unpublished draft of a book is rather clearly ineligible, and I don't think he's personally eligible either.
I can't think of a less eligible book than the 6th volume of a dungeons and dragons TV-tie-in, in by a non-UK/Irish resident/citizen, that hasn't actually been written yet (and hopefully never will be) let alone published.So I guess you win the prize for worst possible pick after last year's joint prize with Neil for biggest missed pick.
You should be combing the judge's autobiographies, twitter accounts and articles for clues as you did so successfully with the Booker - it's your assigned job on the forum.
I was disappointed that Liars Dictionary wasn’t on the Booker longlist, but would be thrilled to see it on Goldsmiths. It’s one of my favorite books this year, and deserves the accolades.
Listen to your older brother, GY, I’m trying to be frugal as we approach the holidays so I need some solid speculation on Goldsmith books.
Time to turn my attention to this one then. Have Liars Dictionary and That Reminds Me on order with the library. Need to see which others I should prioritise.
John wrote: "Time to turn my attention to this one then. Have Liars Dictionary and That Reminds Me on order with the library. Need to see which others I should prioritise."Those two are worth reading irrespective of whether they are on the Goldsmiths list
More suggestions for the Listopia, or just votes for what's on there, very welcome (other than from George Martin fans).
This one looks intriguing - The Boiled in Between - from the same published as Fatherhood, and written by an artist who won the Turner Prize in 2016.
I just finished That Reminds Me. What an incredible book. Owusu tells the story of a troubled life, introducing mother, father, brother, foster family and girlfriend all through vignettes of memories. This is exactly the type of brilliant, experimental fiction the Goldsmith celebrates so I will be shocked if it’s not included.It is best read in one sitting, but my grandchildren were here all weekend so I wasn’t able to do so. I will be rereading it soon.
I look forward to more fiction from Derek Owusu.
Looks like the judges met today to decide on the shortlist. Only excuse for not including That Reminds Me will be if the publisher didn’t enter it.
They’d be foolish not to. I thought when I first saw Merky that they were an independent press, but they’re an imprint of Penguin so they can afford to enter it.Now I’m starting The Liar's Dictionary.
WndyJW wrote: "They’d be foolish not to. I thought when I first saw Merky that they were an independent press, but they’re an imprint of Penguin so they can afford to enter it.Now I’m starting [book:The Liar's ..."
I've just started The Liar's Dictionary - I'm finding it quite delightful!
I’m about 1/3 through When We Cease to Understand the World and finding it hard to put down. How much of the biographical stories are true? It’s labeled fiction, if it is I’ll be disappointed. This will be a top 5 of the year for me.
The author has said the first part is 99% true, with just one paragraph that is fictional (I’d love to know which one) but the fictional content increases as the novel progresses. Although this one won’t be Goldsmiths eligible as it is translated.
It would be a fantastic addition to the Goldsmith’s if it was eligible. One of my Top 5, too.
By excluding translated fiction, short stories and books by anyone who has any connection with Goldsmiths itself, the prize does rather cut down on the pool of innovative literature from which it selects, hence the relative limited list of contenders we derive each year.
Yes. I am sitting here imagining a prize list where the only condition was “innovative fiction”. I think it’s my happy place.
Yes. The real problem is that the only prize for which we are all happy with the long list is the “My favourite novel of the year” prize.
Robert wrote: "I guess the closest is the RoC prize"Although much as a I love that, the small press part restricts it a lot: classic case in point is that winner in 2018 (Eley Williams) is not eligible this year with her latest book and that the joint 2019 winner Will Eaves (Goldsmith judge this year) will presumably not be eligible for his next novel.
On authors moving away from their original small press who discovered them, there was an interesting story this week.Graeme Macrae Burnet's (2015 Booker His Bloody Project) next book is staying with Saraband - but only "after winning a hotly contested five-way auction (https://www.thebookseller.com/news/sa...)
Personally, I like that there's an English-language award for innovative fiction, as it can make writers of English innovative fiction feel that they belong somewhere, raise the profile of the books and hopefully create a bit more of a movement.
Emily wrote: "Personally, I like that there's an English-language award for innovative fiction, as it can make writers of English innovative fiction feel that they belong somewhere, raise the profile of the book..."Yes that makes a lot of sense.
Although British/Irish nationality/residence it should be said, it isn't as wide as English language
The short-story / Goldsmiths exclusion is still odd when a lot of innovation occurs at the boundary of forms (Pond an obvious example) and the Goldsmiths is our principle home for innovative creating writing.
Looking at the RoC winners vs Goldsmiths eligibility:
2017 - Counternarratives - no, US author and connected short stories
2018 - Attrib - no, short stories
2019 - Murmur - yes (and shortlisted); Lucia - no (Goldsmiths connection)
2020 - Animalia - no (translated)
Of the 7 Goldsmiths winners, 3 would have been RoC eligible and 2 of the 4 in the years of overlap. One of those (Solar Bones) was RoC shortlisted. The other (Ducks) wasn't entered into the RoC as the publisher entered Lucia.
Just realised Rainbow Milk from this year's Gordon Burn Prize is another to fall foul of the "ever been within 20 miles of Goldsmiths University" rule - Mendez is studying for an MA in Black British Writing at Goldsmiths.
Is Rainbow Milk good? I’ve heard mixed reviews, but can’t recall where I heard negative comments.When We Cease to Understand the World should win something. It’s unlike anything else I’ve read and close to a religious text for me. Science, the human spirit, the Mind, evil, war, sacrifice for the larger good, the study of the Universe: it’s a very moving book.
Haven't read it - several reviews (e.g. Gumble's) do debate whether the second part of the book is as strong as the 50-60 page prologue.When We Cease to Understand the World is International Booker eligible. Whether the judges will consider it fiction remains to be seen.
Oh good! It’s so, so good. I’m more a Physics for Dummies reader, but one doesn’t have to be a mathematician or physicist to be moved by these stories.
So do I read The Liar's Dictionary, Strange Hotel, How Pale the Winter Has Made Us or Summer next?Or I could read Saving Lucia or Mr Beethoven, but the latter two aren’t calling to me like the first four.
I’m saving Mordew for October.
How Pale is very good but ineligible so depends if you’re trying to get advanced reading done of books likely to make it. If you are, Liar’s Dictionary is the most likely of those to be on the list in my view.
I see Mr.Beethoven as a good goldsmiths contender
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
Summer (other topics)Here Is the Beehive (other topics)
little scratch (other topics)
Apeirogon (other topics)
Love and Other Thought Experiments (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Derek Owusu (other topics)Colum McCann (other topics)
I said this last year - these rules are restricting the potential of this prize (although I understand the no alumni rule)