Rosemarie, I Have a Question?

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Thanks for checking, Anisha. The book is probably not available anymore.

[Anisha Inkspill]

Lesle wrote: "Anisha Inkspill wrote: "The Forgotten Garden by Eleanor H. Porter
Publication: 1914.
Plot: The story follows a woman who is in a European village, and her journey to a hidden, forgotten garden.
......"

yeah, this is the beginning of where things are going, so I don't put too much reliance on it but it might be a starting point

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

That sounds like a book I would enjoy, Anisha.

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Rosemarie wrote: "That sounds like a book I would enjoy, Anisha."

I was thinking the same thing but I cannot locate anything about a book she has done with Garden in the title. If you have any luck will you let me know?

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I haven't found anything yet, but I'm going to keep trying.

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

I am too. Something. I even wonder if it was maybe a short story.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

She did write a lot of short stories too.

[Anisha Inkspill]

Rosemarie wrote: "That sounds like a book I would enjoy, Anisha."

yeah, it does sound interesting Rosemarie.

Rosemarie wrote: "She did write a lot of short stories too."

and this is an interesting thought, it always surprises when I look into a writer from the past how much they have actually written.

[Karin]

James wrote: "Thank you for the welcome back. This is one of my favorite groups on Goodreads. Though we have never met in person, I consider all of you as friends. I feel that I may have put my life summary of t..."

I'm glad no bullet took you out. You've been through a rough few years, but I'm happy to hear your life is back on track and to see you here again.

[Anne]

I have a question about the non-fiction fundamentals.

I'm currently reading Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by David Mitchell.

Obviously, the book itself is very new - written in 2023, and some of the subject matter is modern, as it also describes Queen Elisabeth's reign, but the majority of the book is about England's prior rulers, starting in post-Roman times. Would this book therefore be eligible to use in the discussions of NTLTRC?

[Samantha, Creole Literary Belle]

That is a tricky one, Anne. For NF we want the subject to have passed away at least 50 years ago, if about a person. With the book delving into Queen Elizabeth II's reign, my initial thought is no, but I am curious to hear what Lesle and Rosemarie think on the subject. It sounds like the weight of the book is historical, so even for MY full answer, I'll look into the book myself to learn more about it. I say all this as the one who moderates the NF reads.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I'll go by whatever you decide, Samantha.

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Samantha I agree with Rosemarie. It is your topic. Whatever you think is best for your NF.

[Anisha Inkspill]

Rosemarie wrote: "Thanks for checking, Anisha. The book is probably not available anymore."

I was thinking about what you said here Rosemarie, and I'm wondering why it wouldn't be available when we have gutenberg and kind of edging towards digital print, I am not saying it's what everyone wants but digital publishing changes how publishers work.

So any boook / work that is elegible in the public domain, why isn't it available and why isn't it easy to find?

[Anisha Inkspill]

Anne wrote: "I have a question about the non-fiction fundamentals.

I'm currently reading Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by David Mitchell.

Obvi..."

I'm not sure if this helps, I have seen this book in passing, heard bits about it, I've taken a quick look at it's content it covers history from King Arthur to Elizabeth I --- c.590 - 1603 BCE, so ends at Elizabethan times, but the Elizabeth that was living the same time as Shakespeare, roughly.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Thank you. That helps a lot, Anisha. It definitely fits the time period.

[Anne]

Anisha Inkspill wrote: "Anne wrote: "I have a question about the non-fiction fundamentals.

I'm currently reading Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by [author:David Mitchell|301..."

Oh, it's my bad 😅 still haven't finished the book and just read Elisabeth in passing, missed the part where it said Elisabeth I. Thanks for checking Anisha!

[Anisha Inkspill]

Anne wrote: "Anisha Inkspill wrote: "Anne wrote: "I have a question about the non-fiction fundamentals.

I'm currently reading Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by [a..."

that's ok, easy to do, enjoy the read

[Samantha, Creole Literary Belle]

Anisha, that is very helpful. It totally qualifies!

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Rosemarie or anyone actually.

Do you remember us ever discussing Picnic at Hanging Rock by Joan Lindsay.

I was almost positive there was 3 or 4 members that did and made comments on it. Can anyone that remembers reading it give me a date of when you read it? Might help to dwindle it down.

I have looked through the Archives and Genre reads and cannot seem to locate it.

Thank you so much.
I appreciate the help.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I've just checked the bookshelves and there are no group discussions listed for the book.

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Rosemarie wrote: "I've just checked the bookshelves and there are no group discussions listed for the book."

I did that too but came up with nothing either. For some reason I was thinking it came up under another read.
Was wondering when you or Kathy might have read it?
I was thinking Brian as well but not really sure if it was this book or another :(

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

We might have mentioned it in what classic are you reading.

[Kathy]

I don't recall reading Picnic at Hanging Rock with the group. ??

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Thank you Rosemarie and Kathy. Must of been my imagination gone wild! lol

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

To answer your question, Phodrick. Louise and Aylmer Maude knew Tolstoy and he approved of their translation. I enjoyed reading it, but I know that there are other good translations and some not so good. Unfortunately, I don't know any Russian.
But I am fluent in French and German and have noticed over the years the differences between a good translation and a mediocre one.
I once checked out a Gogol short story from the library and found the translation unreadable for me. It was from Pevear-Volkhonsky who are trendy translators, at least they were. I read anything but their translation. I was fortunate to find a different translator for the Gogol Christmas story.

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Thing is there are several things I would like to say in reply.
The only one that matters is that I do not think we are talking about the same 'original version'. I was making a point about what may be a trend in publishing ,that of newly discovered versions, or in this case what even Good Reads calls a 'first draft'. I dare say almost every book had a first draft, and by a large margin we are better for the fact that they are , again from GR "hidden away".

Until I can formulate my other points into something less petty and argumentative, I will do everyone a favor, stifle it and hope the urge goes away.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Take your time.

[Bernard]

First drafts can be interesting. I discovered yesterday that the "very hungry caterpillar" was originally going to be Willie the worm!

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Apologies in advance. I have a very old reputation for not giving up on topics until long after others have tired of it.

First off, "Louise and Aylmer Maude knew Tolstoy and he approved of their translation.". Exactly what you said. Agreed. I add that The Count was fluent in English such that his approval means more than a nod to friends.

He would make changes over the years. His editors/publishers had virtually blanket approval to make changes - he was concerned about government censors. His wife transcribed his work before it went to printers. There are many versions, such that modern editors/translators have choices to make over which pages of the various transcripts they will choose to use.
There may not be such a thing as a final, most like the author's actual intent, edition.

Over the years I have read this book many times. Once back to front twice. More recent re reads including a prior to this 'original edition' version that was supposed to be a great edition because the translation was more modern. I remember it kicked off a debate over the question of including the French phrases. Those phrases were considered more true to the original. Later I read that Tolstoy was against using French because it was too elitist.

I am unqualified to speak to the quality of translations, having neither related linguistic skills and only a gross level awareness. On occasion I will read a phrase and wonder if that specific wording had a meaningful version in the original language. For example had a translator placed a phrase like "great Scott" in the mouth of a 19th century Russian serf, I would wonder what the original had been.

I have already noted that the so called 'Original version" has its fans.
Ignoring the question of its translation. I did not like it. It read to me like a first draft.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Bernard wrote: "First drafts can be interesting. I discovered yesterday that the "very hungry caterpillar" was originally going to be Willie the worm!"

Oh, no!

[Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog]

Any number or writers and scholars have made their mark tracking changes from the original to the most recent.
Just consider the time and energy to be found in tracking back to a non existent original bible.
Non existent because so much of so many of them trace back to oral traditions before writing, or before written bibles.

There is many a full time scholar just attempting to answer, book for book:
were changes made because the writer had a better idea, or because he/she compromised, or some 3rd party did it for their own reasons.

ETA, maybe I would be better expressed if I said:
to me it reads like a rough draft.
Something to give an editor, in hopes of a go ahead to final copy or, in the case of a more penurious writer, a contract with some money to secure the rights.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I've read some non-classic mysteries by established writers that read like rough drafts.

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Bernard wrote: "First drafts can be interesting. I discovered yesterday that the "very hungry caterpillar" was originally going to be Willie the worm!"

Willie Worms are fuzzy caterpillars that can predict the winter.

Wikipedia: Refers to the folklore that the color pattern on the caterpillar of the Isabella tiger moth can predict the severity of the upcoming winter. A wider brown band suggests a milder winter, while a narrower brown band or more black coloration indicates a harsher winter.

[Karin]

Bernard wrote: "First drafts can be interesting. I discovered yesterday that the "very hungry caterpillar" was originally going to be Willie the worm!"

Yes; it's not unusual for character names to be changed and other modifications to be taken.

[Karin]

Phrodrick slowed his growing backlog wrote: "Any number or writers and scholars have made their mark tracking changes from the original to the most recent.
Just consider the time and energy to be found in tracking back to a non existent orig..."

Another problem is that we can't always know for sure when these things were first written down because paper and other things don't last; even stone can be broken up so there's nothing much left of it. As you may already know, there is large gap in Egyptian history from when they switched from stone to papyrus, but not everyone started with stone.

[Cleo]

I have a question, Rosemarie. 😉 I see how many books you read each year and aspire to be a reader like you. So I’m curious as to how you read so many books. I suspect you’re retired but that doesn’t necessarily mean one has more time. Do you have specific times you read? Do you have long periods you can read or do you try to fit in your reading even if it’s five minutes at a time? Any tips you could share would be much appreciated! 🙏

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I am retired and always have something to read with me on my iphone. And of course, I enjoy reading. I'm also a night owl so I have lots of time to read in the evening since I don't watch television.
I do watch short videos on youtube, which I only started this January.
Reading more than one book at a time also keeps me more motivated. They're all different genres so I don't get mixed up. If I get tired of one book, I switch to a different one.

I would say the main reason is not watching any tv.-for me, it's boring and I would rather be doing something else.

I hope this helps.

[Cleo]

Thank you for sharing your secrets. ☺️

I had one woman tell me she reads in bits whenever she can and that helped, as I was always trying to get long stretches to read and it just wasn’t working well.

I had another lady tell me that she’d read 10 pages at breakfast and lunch and dinner and bedtime, so 40 pages per day. That sounded wonderful provided you sit down for meals and don’t have anyone who you should be talking to. 🤭

In any case, thanks again. It’s interesting to hear about how different people make time to read. 🧡

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Cleo wrote: "I have a question, Rosemarie. 😉 I see how many books you read each year and aspire to be a reader like you. So I’m curious as to how you read so many books. I suspect you’re retired but that doesn’..."

Great questions Cleo!!

Interesting answer too Rosemarie!
Im retired and still have hard time haha!

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Cleo wrote: "I had another lady tell me that she’d read 10 pages at breakfast and lunch and dinner and bedtime, so 40 pages per day. ..."

That works if your by yourself, but thinking that isnt any different than the no phones when eating rule in our family!

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Lesle, when I was looking after my grandkids I had a lot less time to read!

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

I can understand that.
I try to spend sometime in the morning letting him watch Sesame Street or play on his own, while I get on here and read a little. Doesnt always work out that way.

I am trying to help him with his numbers...he gets to twelve and the teens are there just out of order before twenty.
His letters is worse. He can say the alphabet but cannot recognize the letters as well.

I bought flash cards for both.
He likes them. He thinks its a game like the War, Fish, Puppy Memory and Rummy kids games.

His birthday was yesterday. He is officially 5 now!!

[Cleo]

Happy birthday to your grandson, Leslie! Five is a great age but I can see why you have less time to read.

Have you tried doing a treasure hunt with letters? First he could find them in order and after he knows them reasonably well, you could get him to find them in a mixed up order. You could also incorporate them into a “Go Fish” style game.

Also it’s so helpful to read to them tons. I read with my daughter for about 2-3 hours per day (broken up) when she was younger. I think it was one of the best things that I ever did for her.

Teaching is so much fun! Just thinking back I really miss that time.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Reading out loud is so much fun! Flint's and my favourite was Go, Dog. Go! by P.D. Eastman. I had a lot of fun doing silly voices.
I hope he had a fun birthday yesterday.

[Luís]

Happy Birthday to your grandson, Lesle!

[Piyangie, Classical Princess]

Lesle wrote: "I can understand that.
I try to spend sometime in the morning letting him watch Sesame Street or play on his own, while I get on here and read a little. Doesnt always work out that way.

I am tryi..."

Happy birthday to your grandson, Lesle! That's a nice bond you're forming with him, looking after and taking care of his early education. They grow up fast, but these fond memories will last. I guess that'll be some comfort for having less time to read at present. :)

[Lesle, Appalachian Bibliophile]

Cleo thank you for the games to add to the cards!

We do read a wide variety of Dr. Seuss books.
He usually will let me read several than he reads them to me. Of course from memory and pictures.

Thank you everyone for the Birthday Wishes for him. I will let him know tomorrow.

[Michelle]

I have a question about what fits in the non-fiction category for challenges. I read a lot about the origins of folklore, but often those types of non-fiction books are 80-90% origin stories and 10-20% how they affect modern (or modern-ish) times.

I'm about to start The Dead of Winter: The Demons, Witches and Ghosts of Christmas.

^ This is the edition I have but there's no summary on it. The summary below is from a newer edition (and starts with horrible grammar):

Enter the dark side of discover the monsters, witches, and nightmarish traditions behind one of the most celebrated holidays in the world When we imagine the origins of Christmas, we picture halcyon images of mangers, glowing fireplaces, and snow-blanketed winter hills. But the holiday is celebrated during the darkest time of year in the Northern Hemisphere—a season so dark it has given rise to the most outlandish traditions imaginable. In The Dead of Winter, Oxford-trained historian Sarah Clegg delves deep into the folkloric roots of Christmas in Europe, comparing their often-horrific past to the way they continue to haunt and entertain us now in the 21st century. Detailing the hideous masks and curling horns of "Krampus runs" in Austria, the fearsome horseheads of "hoodenings" in Southeast England, and the candle-crowned young witches of Finland's St. Lucy Festival, the author captures the wild revelry at heart of the winter madness. In Clegg’s fascinating investigation, these strange, wonderful traditions are cast in their illuminating historical context. And the closer we get to the dark magic and bright enchantment described in The Dead of Winter, the more we start to see how fun it might be to let just a bit of the ancient darkness in.

Would that qualify for non-fiction, or does the inclusion of how the folklore affects the modern day disqualify it?

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Samantha is our moderator for non-fiction, so she may know how to answer that-it is a tricky question.