The Hours Before Dawn by Celia Fremlin (February 2020)

[Val]

That 'story' about a fox attacking a baby was completely false. The doctor recognised a dog bite as soon as he examined the child and the police did not believe it either. The Daily Mail pretended to believe it because they thought it would encourage more people to support fox-hunting.

[Susan]

I have a lot of foxes in my garden and, when my children were young, they often approached. Once, my children were in the sandpit and a fox came very close and growled - she had cubs with her. Not saying it would have done anything, but it didn't look too friendly.

I have also had a neighbours dog break through my fence and bark aggressively at my daughter- probably triggering her intense dislike of dogs! I have a double fence on that side of the garden now...

[Val]

My daughter's MSc thesis was about urban foxes, including people's perceptions of them and control methods when they are, or are perceived to be, a problem. (There are a lot of urban foxes.)

[Susan]

I like our foxes, personally, but I was wary of them, when the kids were little. We live near a railway and so I suspect that increases the numbers. They do feel safe here and so come out a lot. I am not blaming them for being protective, but I have no doubt they could hurt a small person if they felt threatened.

[Val]

The growl was most likely intended as a warning not to get closer to the cubs, but small children might not understand that and you were wise to be wary.

[Susan]

Yes, I like the cubs. They are sweet.

[Roman Clodia]

I live near a London common and so it's perfectly usual to meet foxes walking happily down the residential back streets after dark! They seem tolerant of people and not particularly wary - they're beautiful animals to see.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I would be thrilled to see a fox in my neighborhood. Other than birds, we only get deer and black bear.

[Jill]

We see plenty of foxes, but not as many as we used to, since the food rubbish now goes into a green bin. They used to tear open the rubbish sacks and scatter the contents all over the roads. One of my dogs had a fox cub follow her all round the evening walk, we think it must have thought she was it's mother. They make an awful noise at night which often sounds like a baby crying.

[Jill]

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I would be thrilled to see a fox in my neighborhood. Other than birds, we only get deer and black bear."

I would love to see a bear that wasn't in a zoo. At a safe distance ofcourse.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I'm not so excited about seeing them up close either. But there was one last fall before hibernation that came around several times - we saw it in the early morning heading out for our walk, close enough to get the heart rate up. It was relatively young, I think, but gosh what a beautiful coat it had.

[Nigeyb]

I have just read the section in which Louise has the nightmare whilst sleeping in the scullery to avoid Michael’s cries waking up the household. It’s a really powerful and impressive section in terms of the writing. Indeed the whole book is brilliantly written and I’m really enjoy it. Thanks for suggesting it.

[Nigeyb]

The horrendous neighbours also really add to the feeling of being trapped in a hellish suburban nightmare

[Nigeyb]

Lack of sleep, and perpetual tiredness, really is a particular kind of hell

[Susan]

I'm not sure I should admit this, but I adored doing night feeds. I think there is something quite special about that time...

[Jill]

Wow! You must be one in a million or more!

[Nigeyb]

But what about the cumulative effect of broken and sleep deprived nights Susan? Were you able to function normally?

[Susan]

My husband did the last feed and then I did the night/early morning one. My husband is more of a night owl and I am more of a morning person. It worked for us. I still think there is something special about feeding babies at night, when it is just the two of you awake.

[Nigeyb]

I quite agree Susan. It’s a special time.


It sounds as though you were able to get a reasonable amount of sleep too which is really helpful.

[Susan]

By number three we were pretty organised!

[Nigeyb]

Finished


Here’s my review

The denouement felt a bit too neat and didn't quite live up to the earlier sections, however this is a minor criticism. It's very obvious why so many readers are rediscovering Celia Fremlin.

4/5

[Judy]

Glad you enjoyed it, Nigeyb - off to read your review now. There is also a spoiler thread here:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Judy. I’ll have a read.

[Val]

The denouement is neat, but I don't think solving the mystery is the point.

[Jill]

Val wrote: "The denouement is neat, but I don't think solving the mystery is the point."

I agree. I think it was the getting there with the characters that made it worthy

[Susan]

I would agree that solving the mystery was less important than the journey.

[Nigeyb]

Yes indeed. I agree with all of that but the ending felt so neat in comparison with the rest of the book. Louise finds the diary which reveals all, then there's a superfast bit of drama, and then everything is back to normal.

I wonder if a more ambiguous ending might have worked better, and been more in keeping with the mood in the earlier sections.

The neatness of the finale reminded me of Scooby Doo.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Nigeyb wrote: "I wonder if a more ambiguous ending might have worked better, and been more in keeping with the mood in the earlier sections."

Apparently it is the journey, not the destination, that makes her a good read.

[Nigeyb]

I agree Elizabeth but, I still felt, an ending more in keeping with the sinister vibe of the earlier sections, perhaps something more ambiguous and less neat, might have elevated the book even further

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Nigeyb wrote: "I agree Elizabeth but, I still felt, an ending more in keeping with the sinister vibe of the earlier sections, perhaps something more ambiguous and less neat, might have elevated the book even further"

I don't disagree. We have read just this one. Maybe we'll find that she gives us endings that leave us less tense. Maybe we'll find out that is why she was out of print or not noticed as much as others. I'm glad we're going to read some more so we can see if that's true.

[Brian E]

Susan wrote: "This was a wonderful read. I did have to get my head around the more, er, relaxed, parenting practices of the 1950's..."

I have read the book and agree with many of the comments, such as this. My review is: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

EDIT & SPOILER: It was interesting that the husband/wife relationship turned out to be not of importance. Which is fitting, as the husband himself also turned out to be not of importance.

[Susan]

Interesting review, Brian. I actually preferred Uncle Paul but I know I was in the minority and most liked her first novel.

For me, she has been one of my discoveries of the year. I have loved enjoying her work and am looking forward to the Christmas buddy read, suggested by Nigeyb.

[Brian E]

Susan wrote: "Interesting review, Brian. I actually preferred Uncle Paul but I know I was in the minority and most liked her first novel. ..."

I like it that people have different favorites of an author. I can see how someone could favor Uncle Paul - it may even have had a better ending. For whatever reason, I just was much more enthusiastic, almost giddy, when I would set aside my daily non-fiction read to read THBD each day. It was like finally getting to dessert after your meal.
While I also enjoyed Uncle Paul, I didn't have that same level of enthusiasm. I mentioned I favored THBD in my review because I had rated both as 4 stars and I wished to differentiate my rating a bit.

EDIT: I hadn't previously noticed the planned Christmas Buddy Read for Fremlin's The Long Shadow, but will plan to join in now. It is her second most rated book on Goodreads and the only Fremlin novel besides THBD with over 100 GR ratings. Fremlin is very little read on here, which is surprising for such a skilled Edgar Award winner. But that is not unusual. The 2 follow-ups to Stan Barstow's A Kind of Loving had 123 and 90 GR ratings respectively, surprisingly low amounts for what I thought were high quality works and sequels to a once-popular novel.

[Susan]

I think there are just too many books, Brian, and older authors often go over-looked. Nigeyb did point out to me, a while ago, an excellent podcast, called Backlisted, which has pointed me in the direction of many older novels. One I read, and loved, was The Tortoise and the Hare, but that's only one example. I love discovering 'new' authors and Fremlin has definitely been a great discovery for me. I am looking forward to The Long Shadow.

[Nigeyb]

Brian wrote: "I hadn't previously noticed the planned Christmas Buddy Read for Fremlin's The Long Shadow, but will plan to join in now"

Hurrah. See you there Brian

Thanks to Susan for mentioning the Backlisted Podcast - I'm a dedicated listener. It's a great source of information and opinion for less fashionable books and writers

[Susan]

Absolutely, it was a great recommendation, Nigeyb.

[Sue]

Susan wrote: "Nigeyb did point out to me, a while ago, an excellent podcast, called Backlisted, which has pointed me in the direction of many older novels...."

I also found Backlisted through Nigeyb and it's a wonderful resource for older books. Thank you Nigeyb!

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Sue

[Brian E]

Susan wrote: " One I read, and loved, was The Tortoise and the Hare, but that's only one example. "

That's good to hear as I have The Tortoise and the Hare in my Amazon Save for Later Cart. I presume I put it there after reading Nigeby's post and thought the book looked intriguing.
I keep books in that Cart and order them when either their price goes down or I have a gap in my reading schedule. That cover catches my eye whenever I go to my Save for Later Cart. It's this edition:

In the past month, besides The Hours Before Dawn, I purchased and read Excellent Women from among the books I had in that Cart.

[Susan]

I often do that too, Brian, only I use my wish list. It's helpful to do so, otherwise you forget recommendations, don't you?

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I don't use Amazon for anything except buying. All of my lists are on Goodreads.

[Susan]

I suppose it is whatever you are most comfortable with, Elizabeth. I tend to use Amazon because, as Brian says, you can see if prices drop by scrolling through your wishlist.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I have over 400 books on hand. I get 3 emails daily about books that are on sale. I simply check goodreads to see if 1) I'm interested; 2) I've already bought it; or 3) it is available to me through my library. (And I have over 1000 books on my wish list, so scrolling is not something I'm interested in doing.)

[Susan]

I am ashamed to say how many I have and yet I still scroll... I have no will power, Elizabeth.

[Val]

My use of both Goodreads and Amazon's wish list is somewhere between Elizabeth's and Susan's, and I am not ashamed of it.

[Nigeyb]

I use Amazon to keep track of books which interest me. I used to use GoodReads but, for reasons which are now obscure to me, I found it rather annoying

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Susan wrote: "I am ashamed to say how many I have and yet I still scroll... I have no will power, Elizabeth."

LOL, Susan. Willpower? Why do you think I have 400 books and lust after at least 1000 more? But I salve my conscience with the knowledge that there are far worse "vices".

[Susan]

I am, I will admit, a little embarrassed at my inability to stop buying books that I cannot possibly read in the time I have left. Even if I live to a hundred, I will be annoyed at the books I never got around to reading yet!

[Val]

'Want to read', 395 (includes most I am currently reading)
'Want to read' + 'owned', 181

[Roman Clodia]

A year and a half late and I'm just starting this - loving it so far. I don't think I expected it to be so hilarious, though the comparisons with Highsmith and Shirley Jackson should have prepared me.

I can't get over the way Mark (the husband) just sits there fuming behind his newspaper while Louise rushes around looking after the kids, showing the new lodger around, preparing and serving dinner, clearing up and washing... and neither one of them expect him to lift a finger to help! What a massive social change.