Justin 2. More Justin?

[John]

Bennett's style is to tell the story of four of the early Church Fathers, highlighted to the extent possible with selections from their writings. Are you interested in reading Justin Martyr's writing straight through, uninterpreted? Why or why not?

[Manuel]

After reading Bennett's chapter on Justin I was interested in reading his "Dialog with Trypho" so I have searched for it and found an English translation here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-N...

And if anyone wants to read the complete First Apology, it can be found here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-N...

[Gary]

John wrote: "Bennett's style is to tell the story of four of the early Church Fathers, highlighted to the extent possible with selections from their writings. Are you interested in reading Justin Martyr's writi..."

Bennett gives just a taste of Justin, which has me interested in reading more. The Apologia 1 is quite long, 68 chapters long. The chapters are quite short though, and he is a fine apologist so it won’t be a slog.

[Manuel]

Manuel wrote: "After reading Bennett's chapter on Justin I was interested in reading his "Dialog with Trypho"..."

I have now read the beginning chapters, which tell about his conversion by the Old Man. I was intrigued by Bennett's assertion that the old man had convinced Justin using philosophy. Essentially, what Justin tells is this:

- Justin starts by expounding the Platonic and Pythagoric theories about the soul, namely: that the soul is unbegotten and immortal; that after death, the soul is separated from the body and can see God; that later the soul re-incarnates (metempsychosis) in another man, or, if it was evil in its previous existence, in an animal.

- The old man replies in the following way:

1. He says that the soul cannot be unbegotten, for it's a part of the world and the world is not unbegotten. Justin agrees.

2. He says that anything begotten cannot be immortal unless an unbegotten being (God) gives them immortality. Justin agrees.

3. He says that if the soul sees God between incarnations and then forgets about it, then it's as though the soul hadn't seen God. Justin agrees.

4. He says that souls in animals cannot be punished for evils in their previous lives, for to be punished one needs to know that one is being punished. Justin agrees.

5. Therefore re-incarnation is nonsense. Justin agrees.

Justin then says: "But if we cannot trust teachers such as Plato and Pythagoras, then whom can we trust?

The old man answers: we can trust the prophets, who foretold about Christ, and we can trust Christ, who fulfilled the prophets predictions.

The old man then disappears (forever). Justin mulls over what he has said, and ends up becoming a Christian.

[Manuel]

The remainder of the Dialog with Trypho is a discussion, or a defense of Christianity, with a group of orthodox Jews commanded by Trypho, where Justin uses mainly arguments taken from the Old Testament. I'm currently reading this part, which is quite long: the whole dialog has 142 chapters, of which I've read 22 up to now.

[Mariangel]

I am also reading the Dialogue with Trypho.

Trypho is not convinced by Justin's explanations of the prophecies of the Old Testament, which are the usual explanations we are given on how Psalms and Isaiah and the Prophets apply to Jesus.

But I understand Trypho, because of themselves alone, without Jesus's words, the Old Testament is not enough. Justin's interpretation is just seen as an interpretation. Trypho tells him at some point "You are picking and choosing the passages from Scripture that support your argument, and leaving out those who support mine". This was regarding circumcision, and though Justin explained (and Trypho agreed) that God wants a 'circumcision of the heart', Justin does not manage to prove from Scripture that the usual one is no longer required; why should he? The Apostles had to call a Council to decide this matter.

[John]

Gary wrote: "John wrote: "Bennett's style is to tell the story of four of the early Church Fathers, highlighted to the extent possible with selections from their writings. Are you interested in reading Justin M..."

I’ve also decided to read the Apology and after that, the Dialogue. I’m ordering Aeterna Press’s first volume in the Ante-Nicene Fathers series - what they call the Apostolic Fathers. It includes all of Justin Martyr’s writings as well as Clement’s letter to the Corinthians, Ignatius, Barbara’s and several others.

Edited to correct auto-correct errors.

[Jill]

I chuckled at what Spell-Check did to your message, Ante-Nicene became anti-Niceness. Pretty far from the Truth!

[Mariangel]

John, you can get all 9 volumes for kindle for $2.99.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Ante-...


Or even more, the ante and post, also for $2.99. The reviews of this edition say the index and search work well on the kindle.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Ante-...

[Mariangel]

The dialogue with Trypho got better as I read further. There is some repetition, but overall it is very good.

There were a few interpretations of the OT that I hadn't read before. One was about the horns of the unicorn representing the cross. Another is when Justin argues that whenever the Lord or an Angel with attendant angels appears to someone in the OT, it is the second person of the Trinity, because it refers to God as not being present.

[John]

Jill wrote: "I chuckled at what Spell-Check did to your message, Ante-Nicene became anti-Niceness. Pretty far from the Truth!"

Arrrgh.

[John]

Mariangel wrote: "John, you can get all 9 volumes for kindle for $2.99.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Ante-...


Or even more, the ante and post, also for $2.99. ..."

Thanks. At least to start, I am sticking with paper books as much as possible. I truly prefer them.