Children of Virtue and Vengeance (January 2020) Buddy Read Discussion - Laura, Heather, Selina, Franz

[Aless, Discord/Readathon Procrastinator]

Welcome to Children of Virtue and Vengeance Buddy Read Discussion thread! This thread officially opens on January 1st and anyone can join at any time. Please keep in mind that spoilers are allowed in this thread but only up to the group's current reading place. Do not spoil the book if you've read further than the group. Any extra days can be used to catch up!

Each week we will be reading by chapters. The suggested Buddy Read discussion schedule is as follows:

Week of 1/3
January 3: Chapters 1-6
January 4: Chapters 7-12

Week of 1/5
January 5: Chapters 13-18
January 6: Chapters 19-24
January 7: Chapters 25-30
January 8: Chapters 31-36
January 9: Chapters 37-42
January 10: Chapters 43-48
January 11: Chapters 49-54

Weel of 1/12
January 12: Chapters 55-60
January 13: Chapters 61-66
January 14: Chapters 67-72
January 15: Chapters 73-78
January 16: Chapters 79-84
January 17: Chapters 85-90 + epilouge

PARTICIPANTS
~ Laura
~ Heather
~ Selina
~ Franz

[HeatherH]

Gah! I had this down as starting the 3rd? I may be a bit behind but I'll binge this weekend and catch up!

[Aless, Discord/Readathon Procrastinator]

HeatherH wrote: "Gah! I had this down as starting the 3rd? I may be a bit behind but I'll binge this weekend and catch up!"

I will fix it, no worries!

[Aless, Discord/Readathon Procrastinator]

Franz wrote: "I started reading this, but then I saw that we were buddy reading this. Can I still join?"

of course! You have been added!

[Aless, Discord/Readathon Procrastinator]

Franz wrote: "thankyou!"

You're welcome!

[HeatherH]

ch 1-5
(view spoiler)[ We're picking up not long after the end of book one. Zelie and Tzain saying good bye to Baba was a heart-wrenching way to kick things off.

I really feel for Amari. She was hands down one of my favorites from book one and I'm looking forward to watching her get stronger and more confident in this book, but having lost every family member and her friendship with Zelie seeming to be in a tense place currently really sucks. At least she still has Tzain and no matter how hard things are Zelie still has her back as she embarks on taking her place as Orisha's Queen. (hide spoiler)]

ch 6-12
(view spoiler)[ that fight between Zelie and Amari/Tzain broke my heart. I get her grief and anger but also want her to heal enough to see that they are on her side and to work together.. they're going to need to if they want to defeat Amari's mom.. and what is up with her being able to steal the ashi from her guards?! Holy titans with their new powers! (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

Up to Chapter 12!

@Heather (view spoiler)[ Yes! I'm all here for Amari but I feel like Zélie's character has been really hard done by.. I hope she gets the redemption she deserves!

And I feel like the queen is turning into the stereotypical villain character (hide spoiler)]

[HeatherH]

(view spoiler)[Zelie deserves so much. As does Amazri. And Tzain. I love them so much <3 (hide spoiler)]

[luna ☾]

I had to leave this for the weekend so I'm starting now! I must say though that I regret not rereading before this lol I'm a bit lost. just a biiiit

[HeatherH]

Franz wrote: "We have to talk about Nehanda! I hate her so much!"

She is definitely awful!

[HeatherH]

selina ☾ wrote: "I had to leave this for the weekend so I'm starting now! I must say though that I regret not rereading before this lol I'm a bit lost. just a biiiit"


It took me a few minutes to re-orient and it's only been a couple of months since I read the first!

[luna ☾]

HeatherH wrote: "selina ☾ wrote: "I had to leave this for the weekend so I'm starting now! I must say though that I regret not rereading before this lol I'm a bit lost. just a biiiit"


It took me a few minutes to ..."

And I read it around the time the first book came out so you can imagine how much more confused I was. I pretty much forgot all major events and spent the first 10 chapters going "oh righhttt! That happened!" lol!

Anyway, I was working on a spreadsheet and listening to the audiobook so I didn't notice I was listening too much until I got to about halfway through Chapter 29 and I only saw how far I was because I had to pause due to (view spoiler)[the fact that Amari was getting her butt kicked and how awful they are to her and it's just so sad that hate breeds hate. And as someone who lives in an African country (that only abolished Apartheid in 1994), all of this is looking so goddamn familiar. (hide spoiler)]

That said, Zelie and Amari (if I spell anyone's name wrong, I'm so sorry, I did audiobook for both this and the first book heh) being at odds in the beginning broke my heart, especially seeing how much Amari really cares about Zelie's pain.

And also random note... I remember after reading the first book that I was still low-key rooting for Zelie and Inan. But I literally started reading this being all meh about them. So idk where I stand rn lol. I'm high-key side-eyeing Roen.

[luna ☾]

Inan spoiler up to Chapter 29: (view spoiler)[is anyone else getting a bit frustrated about how this man is flip-flopping in his beliefs and opinions? Like which is it Inannn? Do you want unity or do you not? Make up your minnndddd (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

Up to Chapter 21

(view spoiler)[ Okay so Inan is really annoying me, and so is Zelie's character development. Overall I'm not feeling this one as much as the first book so far! (hide spoiler)]

[HeatherH]

through ch 21
(view spoiler)[ INAN IS BACK!!!! I really like how complicated his character is and really look forward to his arc through this story after how much he grew and developed in book one. I know I'm in the minority on that but oh wells! I like how he irritates me one moment and the next I'm like hell ya!

I'm glad Amari and Zelie are working through their friendship after all the drama and loss they've both been put through. I was ecstatic when Roen led them to Mama Agba!! And Mazeli is so sweet and adorable and totally the comedic relief here right now. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

@Heather (view spoiler)[ Honestly Inan kind of annoys me with how much he flip flops back and forth with his opinions! hahah

Why is everyone being so mean to Amari though :( (hide spoiler)]

[HeatherH]

@Laura (view spoiler)[ I can totally see why so many find him irritating or don't like him. I'm honestly not sure why I like him but I do.. However I do not ship him with Zelie.. I'm all for the Roen ship there haha!

Amari gets a shit deal with everyone and it breaks my heart. She really is a shining star in this series. (hide spoiler)]

[luna ☾]

@Laura @Franz (view spoiler)[I literally used that same wording in an above comment XD HE DOES FLIP FLOP! I don't hate him? I'm just meh about him now. Cause when he flip flops, I flip flop with him on the Inan Yay or Nay scale lmao. (hide spoiler)]

@Heather (view spoiler)[and I knooow! Amari and Zelie is literally going through The Worst and I'm upset because this is apparently a trilogy now and I'm wondering for how long will they be sufferring lol (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

@Selina hhahaha YES you did! It's the perfect way to describe it!

Honestly if this keeps going like this I might lose all hope for the last book!

[HeatherH]

Ok, I just finished ch 29, might not get much more read for a couple of days.

re: Inan (view spoiler)[ I really feel like he's just a conflicted KID (because they're all just kids!) who is struggling between the beliefs that were force-fed to him by his parents, and still being shoved down his through by his mother and his cousin and his advisors, and the truths that he came to see while he was with Zelie and Amari and Tzain. I think a lot of his flip-flopping is because of his turmoil of caring so much for his mother and for Zelia and not knowing how to find peace in the middle. I think that is why I find myself still liking him despite his back and forth actions. He's flawed and he reacts in anger and he's trying to please too many people - but I believe he has a good heart.

That scene with Amari getting her butt kicked? Broke me a bit, ngl. I cannot wait to see her come through all of this and be the QUEEN she is meant to be. (hide spoiler)]

[luna ☾]

@Heather (view spoiler)[I definitely agree with you! I'm meh about him now because I spend my time facepalming at him lol but I feel like when he figures his shit out, I'll be 100% cool with him again. What I want most though is for him and Amari to reunite and reconcile and I just want them to have each other. That's my happy spot, that familial love. Not so much Zelie cause I really don't think there's hope for that ship ever to the point where I'd seriously raise a brow if they at all end up together? is that bad?

I also don't have a good feeling about things rn and if anyone dies, I will just lay down facedown on the floor and rethink my life (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

Sooo I finished it...I have thoughts but I’ll share them once you guys are caught up

[luna ☾]

Laura! 😂😂😂 OMG 😂

[Laura ☾]

🙈🙈🙈 I got frustrated so needed to see what happened

[luna ☾]

😂 If I wasn't reading another book as a buffer for this book's frustrations, I probably would have rushed too 😂 I see that rating though, daaammmnnnn! I can't wait to see why 🙈

[Laura ☾]

Hahaha I shall explain all - not a spoiler but as I said in my review I kind of feel like it was all rushed and it has middle-book-syndrome - losing some of the charm of the second book in order to set up the finale

[luna ☾]

looooool guys I can't explain why rn because work but I just wanted to say that I just finished Chapter 58 rn and

I'm

Frustrated.

:)

[luna ☾]

@Laura, I'm starting to see what you mean by middle-book-syndrome. But also for right now, I feel like it's dragging rather than rushed and going in loops and loops and it's just flip-flopping. Still.

[HeatherH]

selina ☾ wrote: "looooool guys I can't explain why rn because work but I just wanted to say that I just finished Chapter 58 rn and

I'm

Frustrated.


Not encouraging.. I'm on ch 39.. so far behind.
:)"

[Laura ☾]

@selina I kind of feel like it was rushed but also seagoing at the same time - like it didn’t feel as deliberate - just setting up the next book !

[luna ☾]

Chapter 75 :) (view spoiler)[that thing where Zelie bound her life to Roen was so predictable? did anyone else feel that? Like I was happy about it but also, it didn't give me the desired effect cause I was like "whatever, she'll revive him somehow, it'll be fine" lol

Also with that thing they fought about (and the way it happened), and with Inan and Amari and their mother's drama, and with Amari stopping everyone and Tzain from going to Zelie and possibly causing a rift there later...

I'm sitting here like

(hide spoiler)]

[luna ☾]

OH AND AND (view spoiler)[ THAT BIT WHERE ROEN WAS LIKE "YOU'RE NOT A VICTIM, YOU'RE A SURVIVOR!"

...yooo that hit me hard. that was powerful to me. I'm pretty sure I've heard it said before by someone in media but it still hit me hard hearing it the second time (hide spoiler)]

[HeatherH]

Your updates are killing me Selina.. I need to know!

Finally got ahold of the audio version, switching to that as work is stupid lately.

[luna ☾]

I'm being vague on purpose to not spoil you XD

Honestly, all I can say is !!!!!!!!!!

And yassssssssss gurl finally! audio is the key to life

[Laura ☾]

@selina (view spoiler)[ YE S IT WAS SO PREDICTABLE! (hide spoiler)]

Did you finish it?

How far in are you Heather?

[HeatherH]

I'm on ch 53 now, so about 65% ish. Works been insane last night and tonight so it's a bunch of play-pause-play-pause for me lol,.

[HeatherH]

ok no but seriously... (view spoiler)[ Mazeli deserved so much better. I'm upset rn. (hide spoiler)]

[HeatherH]

Franz wrote: "Forty five! Amari, my child. I feel so sorry for her!"

Amari really has it tough this book :(

[HeatherH]

Got through ch 67 before I got off work. Between kids and sleeping before another 12 hour shift tonight I'm not sure I'll get through much more and tonight is job #2 which doesn't allow for a whole lot of book time. But will finish tomorrow at the latest!

[HeatherH]

Finished!!

[HeatherH]

(view spoiler)[ I'm still gathering thoughts here.. But like, that moment when she sucked out Inan's life force?! I don't want them together but I don't want him dead either. Also, I LOVE Roen, don't get me wrong there, but I agree with so many that it should have been Zelie and Amari as the power couple here.. I'm bummed Mama Agba had to go but it was the perfect way to use that option for the Maji. That cliffhanger sucked.. Not a bad middle book but definitely felt like a middle book. (hide spoiler)]

[luna ☾]

HeatherH wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

note: spoiler includes a mini throne of glass spoiler for those who haven't read it :)
(view spoiler)[that scene with Inan? something in me broke at that. it was like... i went through the same thing with Chaol and Celaena in ToG. Like I knew something broke in the relationship that can never be fixed and I was mourning the loss of a possibility and reading Zelie actually 2 seconds away from killing him... that was a whole lotta ouch.

and as for the story at large... yeahhhh. That ending sucked. And it definitely is a middle book. The book overall was just repetitive and frustrating to me. Reading it was very tedious :( and I really agree with everyone about Amari and Zelie too but mostly I'm like whatever about shipping characters in this book at this point lol. I have little to no preference haha (hide spoiler)]

[Laura ☾]

Franz wrote: "Why is everyone finishing this? Didn't we have a schedule?"

The schedule is usually more a suggestion than a hard-and-fast rule 😊

[HeatherH]

I've yet to be in any buddy read that sticks to a set schedule perfectly.. The one thing I will say with this group is that everyone is great about using spoiler tags and everyone comes back to discuss it as others catch up and post. I've been in a lot where people read the whole book in a day or two, post four updates and run never to be seen again on the thread.

[luna ☾]

This is true! My very first buddyread happened here really recently and I thought the date suggestions were strict but I very quickly realized no one really follows it much. But yes, I think the unspoken rule is: if you finish before the others, stick around and participate in discussions :)

[luna ☾]

@Franz Take as much time as you need!

Meanwhile, I have a question about this book: I'm not well versed in the Bechdel Test and I vaguely know what it is but I'm not actually sure if this book passes the test? Does the test mean they just never speak about a man ever or just that they have conversations not focused on a man? Does this book pass it?

This is for reading challenge purposes haha

[Laura ☾]

selina ☾ wrote: "@Franz Take as much time as you need!

Meanwhile, I have a question about this book: I'm not well versed in the Bechdel Test and I vaguely know what it is but I'm not actually sure if this book pas..."

I think it does! Usually the threshhold is that there should be conversations between women that do not concern a man or anything to do a with a man

[luna ☾]

Gotcha! The fact that talking about the kingdom has something directly to do with Inan was throwing me off XD Thank you! :)

[Laura ☾]

It does but I believe they also talk about things like how Amari could be queen etc and with the tribe elders

[luna ☾]

And Amari's magic! I couldn't remember anything else that happened that didn't have anything to do with the war. I don't know if that says more about me or the book lol!