To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee - VBC Dec 2014

[Margaret]

What other fictional characters have become for us "larger than life, more alive than most historical characters" because "they live in people's hearts and minds"? I want to think about this.

[Debbie]

This time of year, I think of Ebenezer Scrooge as a larger-than-life character.

[Lenore]

Sabrina wrote: "...given the glimpse we got of a younger brother in Scout's class... I'm thinking the oldest male Ewell boy would just take up his father's role as tyrant ..."

Ugh! I hate thinking that you are probably right!

[Laura]

I have been thinking on another topic. I wonder what would have happened if Atticus would have been honest with Jem and Scout and Dill. If instead of trying to protect them by hiding the issues he had told them the truth. I know this is a very modern concept of being truthful with children but would they have worried less and minded their elders more?

[Lenore]

Laura wrote: "I have been thinking on another topic. I wonder what would have happened if Atticus would have been honest with Jem and Scout and Dill. If instead of trying to protect them by hiding the issues h..."

DID Atticus try to hide the issues? He didn't want them to witness what he thought might be a lynching, and he didn't want them to attend the trial, but he certainly seemed to me to be open about the issues they raised. And I don't think he could say much about Boo Radley without invading Boo's privacy. I don't think I understand what you mean.

[MaryL]

Lenore wrote: "Sabrina wrote: "...given the glimpse we got of a younger brother in Scout's class... I'm thinking the oldest male Ewell boy would just take up his father's role as tyrant ..."

Ugh! I hate thinkin..."

Remember, in 5 years WWII started and the boys would have been drafted. And the whole South turned upside down as the men went away, the women went to work and then the men came home with "outsider" wives. IF they went back home- many went up North or out West, black and white. This book is a picture of a culture on the verge of change, one Lee lived through. Maybe things haven't changed as much as we'd like, but I really feel they HAVE changed. For one thing, we're talking about race, prejudice and discrimination rather than accepting it as the norm.

[Lenore]

I don't think I understand Atticus's concerns at the end of the book. It seemed obvious to me that Boo pulled Ewell off Jem and in the ensuing struggle, either accidentally or intentionally (in self-defense and defense of the kids) stabbed Ewell with the latter's knife. It seems to me that Heck Tate believes that, and because Atticus thanks Boo "for [his] children," it seems that Atticus believes it, too. So why is he concerned that Jem should be tried for it? Although he must want to protect Boo, he surely does not think that Jem should be tried so as to protect Boo. What's going on here?

[Sabrina]

Lenore wrote: DID Atticus try to hide the issues?

I think he did at first. My memory is hazy, so maybe someone else can confirm, but I seem to recall that he was worried about community backlash and was trying to shield them from any gossip and whatnot. Then when he found out that kids had been harassing Scout and Jem at school about their father, he seemed to start explaining more.

[Sabrina]

Laura wrote: "I have been thinking on another topic. I wonder what would have happened if Atticus would have been honest with Jem and Scout and Dill. If instead of trying to protect them by hiding the issues h..."

If Atticus had thrown the deeper issues at them from the get go, I think that it would have caused Scout and Jem unnecessary concern or the racial issues would have gone right over their heads. With the whole lynching scene... I think he was hoping his casual attitude would keep them away. Otherwise, if he had told them of the danger, anything short of locking them in a windowless room wouldn't have kept them away.

[Sabrina]

Lenore wrote: "I don't think I understand Atticus's concerns at the end of the book. It seemed obvious to me that Boo pulled Ewell off Jem and in the ensuing struggle, either accidentally or intentionally (in se..."

The way I understood it was that initially, Atticus thought it was Jem who stabbed Ewell, because of the way Scout described it... she said she thought Jem had pulled him off. And it's pretty clear that Atticus is distraught and not thinking right.

Then Heck says, "Mr. Finch, do you think Jem killed Bob Ewell? Do you think that?" After this, Heck keeps pressing him and Atticus is still muddled, then finally, I think Atticus finally understood when he sat in the swing chair.

If someone else has another take on it, I'd love to hear. This part confused me at first too.

[LindaH]

My read of chapter 30 may be the same as yours, Sabrina.... Heck Tate knows that Boo is responsible for using the kitchen knife to defend Scout. He makes that speech about letting the dead bury the dead to justify his action. His little victory over Atticus reveals his character, and I liked him very much in this scene. Even though he is the law in Maycombe, he seems to be taking it into his own hands. He sides with justice.

[Laura]

Lenore wrote: "Laura wrote: "I have been thinking on another topic. I wonder what would have happened if Atticus would have been honest with Jem and Scout and Dill. If instead of trying to protect them by hidin..."

I have been away for the holidays and unable to respond. I am sorry that my comment was confusing. The fun thing about this discussion group is that we all have different views on the book and come from different backgrounds.

I come from a background were parents are very open with their children. I know that in the 1930's "Children were Seen and Not Heard" and told less. And in the context of the 1930's Atticus' general instructions to stay home were appropriate.

I just wondered if Atticus had been clearer with the children about why he needed them to stay home if they would have. How would the story have been different if the children had followed his instructions?

[Laura]

Sabrina wrote: "Lenore wrote: "I don't think I understand Atticus's concerns at the end of the book. It seemed obvious to me that Boo pulled Ewell off Jem and in the ensuing struggle, either accidentally or inten..."

This is the 1st time we have seen Atticus get upset and lose control. It shows his vulnerable side and his love for his children. He was confused and terrified for his son but desperately trying to be a good father. And like do many of us when our children are sick, he can't think clearly and someone has to tell us what to do. Heck Tate steps in and takes charge to protect not just Jem and Boo, but the entire community.

[Lenore]

Laura wrote: "...I just wondered if Atticus had been clearer with the children about why he needed them to stay home if they would have. How would the story have been different if the children had followed his instructions?..."

I kind of tend to think they would have gone anyway. The pull of seeing what the whole town was seeing -- and watching their father in action -- was just too much. But even if they had stayed home, the trajectory of the story would not have changed. Ewell would still have hated Atticus for humiliating him on the witness stand, in front of the whole town, and would still have attacked the children. They would just not have known why, and, as the story is told from Scout's POV, neither would we.

[Laura]

Lenore you are probably right.

[Erin]

Margaret wrote: "What other fictional characters have become for us "larger than life, more alive than most historical characters" because "they live in people's hearts and minds"? I want to think about this."

Harry Potter immediately comes to mind. Ebenezer Scrooge is a good one, Debbie!

[Erin]

Lenore wrote: "I kind of tend to think they would have gone anyway. The pull of seeing what the whole town was seeing -- and watching their father in action -- was just too much. But even if they had stayed home, the trajectory of the story would not have changed. Ewell would still have hated Atticus for humiliating him on the witness stand, in front of the whole town, and would still have attacked the children. They would just not have known why, and, as the story is told from Scout's POV, neither would we."

Perfectly said, Lenore. I doubt the kids would have truly understood the danger, even if Atticus had explained to them why he didn't want them to go.

[Sabrina]

Linda wrote: "My read of chapter 30 may be the same as yours, Sabrina.... Heck Tate knows that Boo is responsible for using the kitchen knife to defend Scout. He makes that speech about letting the dead bury th..."

Oh, good, Linda. It was a very subtle chapter, which is exactly what I loved about TKAM so much. It was all showing. LOL, I think I really appreciated the writing in this book so much because I had just read a popular book where the first 75 pages was a giant info dump.

[Sabrina]

Laura wrote: This is the 1st time we have seen Atticus get upset and lose control. It shows his vulnerable side and his love for his children. He was confused and terrified for his son but desperately trying to be a good father.

So true, Laura. I really liked the movie version of this scene when he ran onto the porch and was calling for Scout and she raced into his arms.

[Emily]

This is one of my very favorite books, and I'm sad that I didn't get a chance to reread, or at least to join in on the discussions this month. Still, it was fun to be thinking about the book again as the discussions unfolded here. Thanks for all of the great comments!

[Sabrina]

Gleodream wrote: "This is one of my very favorite books, and I'm sad that I didn't get a chance to reread, or at least to join in on the discussions this month. Still, it was fun to be thinking about the book again ..."

Maybe you'll get a chance later on, Gleodream. Thanks for following the discussion though. And thank you to everyone who participated. It certainly deepened my understanding of TKAM and I was so happy to have people to discuss it with!

[Kathy]

I'm so sorry that I had to drop out of the discussion midway on TKAM. My husband came in for the holidays at that point, my house was still being painted, and the craziness of the holidays enveloped me. I just read through the rest of the discussion, and I was glad to see it cover so many important points. Great discussion all around!

The very day that I left the discussion, Laurie, you posted the winners of the Dreaming Spies ARC. I missed that post, but I received the best Christmas surprise of the season when it arrived in my mailbox. Thanks for giving me such a wonderful treat to look forward to after the house cleared out, which happened today. It will be my next read, and I can hardly wait!

[Laura]

Kathy. I too got an ARC of Dreaming Spies and you will LOVE it. It's my favorites of the most recent books in the series.

[Kathy]

Laura wrote: "Kathy. I too got an ARC of Dreaming Spies and you will LOVE it. It's my favorites of the most recent books in the series."

Thanks, Laura. I am so looking forward to settling down with it.

[Sabrina]

Kathy wrote: "I'm so sorry that I had to drop out of the discussion midway on TKAM. My husband came in for the holidays at that point, my house was still being painted, and the craziness of the holidays envelop..."

Understandable, Kathy. Thanks for adding your comments for the first half! And I loved Dreaming Spies. We'll be discussing it in March (I think). I'm really looking forward to that discussion.

[Kathy]

Sabrina wrote: "Kathy wrote: "I'm so sorry that I had to drop out of the discussion midway on TKAM. My husband came in for the holidays at that point, my house was still being painted, and the craziness of the h..."

I saw that it was on the list for March. Can't wait!

[Laurie]

Congrats, Kathy, on getting through a winter move without murdering someone, and I wish you many calm hours for the reading of novels. Or ARCs of novels.
Laurie

[Kathy]

Laurie wrote: "Congrats, Kathy, on getting through a winter move without murdering someone, and I wish you many calm hours for the reading of novels. Or ARCs of novels.
Laurie"

Laurie, I am so looking forward to next week when I can sit quietly and read the ARC I won of Dreaming Spies. The reward of reading it has kept me going through the craziness. I had thought I could gain some time to read more this week, but I ended up at the doctor with a pulled muscle (from moving furniture), and the flooring people are here tomorrow and Friday. I then plan on becoming a hermit with the only sounds being the turning of pages. I thought you should know how big a part you've played in preserving my sanity.