Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
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Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?
Author Rex Fuller wrote a review of Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods which I think is worth running in full:A seismographic expedition to Antarctica in 1949 first established its detailed land coastline – not the ice cap, which itself lay undiscovered until 1820. So far as we know, the ice cap has been there for at least 6,000 years. Now, what would you say to the claim that the accurate land coastline of Antarctica appears on a map drawn in 1513? It’s true. Known by its author, the Piri Reis Map is not a hoax and has been well known from its origin. Amazingly, several other maps exist showing accurate coastlines that were not “discovered” until hundreds of years after the maps were drawn. But just focus on the Piri Reis Map. You have to assume it was taken from pre-existing maps or drawings. Who from 6,000 years ago, when the land surface of Antarctica was last visible, would have had the need, the inclination, or the ability to map it?
Here’s another one. Without lifting the pen from the paper, draw a hummingbird using one continuous line. Or a monkey. Or any of eighteen different birds, and other animals. Be sure you make it artistic, and that the pictured animal is unmistakable. Oh, and do it blindfolded. That’s what the Nazca people did in the Peruvian desert at least 1,600 years ago. They could not see the gigantic outlines they were drawing, but they did it.
Or take the stones in the walls at Machu Picchu. They are fitted so tightly without mortar you can’t slide paper between them and some have as many a thirty angles. Some are so massive they weigh nearly forty tons. And yet the Inca who moved them did not have use of the wheel. But never mind, no equipment existed anywhere else in the world in the 1,400's to move them up the virtually unnavigable mountain ridges to the site. And if that’s not enough for you, consider the stones at Cuzco, some weighing hundreds of tons, and worked in such detail that Spaniards thought demons, not humans, made them.
Where did the Maya get the zero, and place-keeping mathematics? And how did they correctly calculate the length of a year and the lunar month to within four decimal places of accuracy?
How about this: the Aymara language, spoken by Indians near Lake Titicaca and believed by some linguists to be the oldest in the world, is possibly “made up.” Its syntax is so stratified and rigid that it can be converted to an algorithm and because of this Aymara is a bridge language. Any language can be translated first into Aymara and then readily converted into any other language.
From another part of the world, perhaps you’ve thought about the engineering of the Great Pyramid. They had to precisely place one block weighing a minimum of 2.5 tons every two minutes working ten hours a day, 365 days a year, to complete it in twenty years as Egyptologists currently estimate, and end up with the apex exactly over the center of the base. Assuming you can envision the physical process for that, how do you coordinate the efforts of all the people involved, without radio or telecommunications? And why would they, without any doubt, have aligned the three Giza pyramids with the position of the stars in Orion’s belt as they were situated 12,000 years ago?
The author pieces these and dozens of other anomalies into a coherent picture. He compellingly suggests that a currently unknown past civilization possessed the necessary technical and cultural skills to have created these things and how that civilization disappeared. You come away certain that’s the only thing – aside from aliens and gods – that explains all of it. Fascinating.
Here's a link to Rex Fuller's review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
There's a group poll currently running on this subject. It asks all Undergrounders the following question:
Do you believe the world today is the most scientifically advanced civilization in the history of the Earth?
Vote and have your say here: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...
This Wikipedia page simply covers the known science, 100% proven ancient technologies and discovered so far...Ancient technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient...
Lost civilization under Persian Gulf? -- ScienceDaily https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...Source: University of Chicago Press Journals
Summary: A once fertile landmass now submerged beneath the Persian Gulf may have been home to some of the earliest human populations outside Africa, according to a new article.
There is no doubt that civilizations have been flooded and are now under the seas and oceans. One of the authors worth looking at, though his theories are not accepted by mainstream science:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanue...
I liked the fact that he advocated catastrophic evolutionary change. He was black balled by the main stream academic community. He was wrong about a lot of things but his main idea was correct. Disasters impacted human history and evolution. Check out the Younger Dryas theory.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger...
David wrote: "I liked the fact that he advocated catastrophic evolutionary change. He was black balled by the main stream academic community. He was wrong about a lot of things but his main idea was correct. Dis..."Okay, I knew Velikovsky was mocked in his era and it's interesting that some of his theories have proven to be true in time.
J. Harlen Bretz is another example of someone who was mocked for his theories. To this day, he's partially accepted and partially not. Graham Hancock covers his story in https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg17/, Why Science Should Cherish Its Rebels.One point he makes is that science has worked hard to distance itself from religion. It wouldn't back anything that looked like the flood story from the bible. The paradigm of gradual change is a strong part of the culture, especially in biology and geology.
great post Jim. Thanks for the article
Jim wrote: "J. Harlen Bretz is another example of someone who was mocked for his theories. To this day, he's partially accepted and partially not. Graham Hancock covers his story in https://grahamhancock.com/h..."Thanks Jim. I'd never heard of Bretz before.
Jim wrote: "J. Harlen Bretz is another example of someone who was mocked for his theories. To this day, he's partially accepted and partially not. Graham Hancock covers his story in https://grahamhancock.com/h..."Thanks Jim. I'd never heard of Bretz before.
Wondering if Erich von Däniken is worth reconsidering on this issue?Here's a 1minute video on von Däniken
https://www.goodreads.com/videos/6678...
As you probably know he was heavily criticized in the 60s or 70s and I believe at least some of that criticism was valid as he may have been exposed (don't really know much about the fraud claims against him, just heard about it in passing).
But despite any weak research or wrongdoings on von Däniken's behalf, I was wondering if any of you think he may have still have been on to something?
They painted him as a liar and trickster at the time, but could it have been he was onto roughly the same things as Graham Hancock but he didn't know how to express it as clearly? Or he didn't have the language or scientific terminology to describe clearly what he meant given he was the first researcher (or one of the first) to state Ancient Alien ideas?
EVD has a little of "huckster" about him, but I do think he made us start to rethink what "mainstream" history was telling us. I do think he is sincere about his core beliefs.
I never believed EVD's ideas but I give him credit for making me look at things with new eyes and to ask questions. I actually credit reading Chariots at the age of nine or so as an important part of my intellectual development.
Chariots at nine? Sheesh, an early start.
Tim wrote: "But my issue with evidence of advanced civilisations is where are the advanced materials they would have developed? Future civilisations will find ample - too much evidence of materials we have invented/created and surely we would be finding some stuff they used? We keep digging up dinosaur bones, why not plastics or other materials? ..."
One theory would be they were using the inherent technology of nature which our civilization is still to fully discover...And maybe the Ancients had also learnt to use the power of the mind, so the supposedly high-tech machinery we have wouldn't be necessary.
I lean toward that school of thought.
I wouldn't necessarily say no materials have been found tho...There's a lot we cannot understand about the pyramids of Egypt and Latin America in particular.
I think humans tend to think very linearly, so when it's applied to ancient civilizations we often try to look for exactly the same or very similar technologies to our own. If we don't find any evidence of tech similar to ours, we conclude they were dumbos :)
It's a bit like how many think animals are stupid compared to us. But maybe we are just unable to recognize different forms of intelligence.
I've been to Teotihuacan in Mexico, Tim...An amazing experience...walked to the top of the Pyramid of the Sun and the Pyramid of the Moon....Mindblowing!
Those who created them...are gone...and nobody knows anything about them...The Aztecs, came much later, 1000 years later, and settled into the newly discovered city (Teotihuacan is an Aztec word) and did human sacrifices on the pyramids and created a slave class and used primitive technologies...But the original inhabitants/creators of the city (whoever they were) had no divisions in their society...It's the only ruins ever found in which no class system was evident at all...Everyone appears to have been equal and each house or living quarters in the huge city was the same.
I suspect same thing happened in Egypt. The Pharaohs being the equivalent of the Aztecs who inherited the pyramids and maybe they still had a little of the original knowledge of what the pyramids were for (e.g. an ancient energy grid on laylines or whatever), but most of the wisdom/technology/spirituality of the ancient architects of the pyramids had been lost.
I agree.Also suspect the Ancients would never been interested in any technology that polluted or otherwise damaged the Earth in any way...To them that would be like harming themselves...
The group poll on this subject has now closed and it was a very close poll with a lot of divided opinions expressed as well.After 444 votes and a month of voting/commenting, here are the final results to the poll's controversial question 'Do you believe the world today is the most scientifically advanced civilization in the history of the Earth?':
40.5% voted NO
40.3% voted YES
19.1% voted UNSURE
You can read the comments that transpired during the poll's voting period here:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC: New Tunnel Discovered Under Ancient Pyramid http://news.nationalgeographic.com/20...Archaeologists think the tunnel under the Pyramid of the Moon in Mexico's Teotihuacán may represent the underworld as part of an ancient belief system.
Tunnel To "UNDERWORLD" Found Beneath Mexican Pyramid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpGk...
From Coast to Coast (thanks for sending the link, Dave):Mysteries of the Sphinx http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/20...
In the latter half, tenured faculty member at Boston University, Robert M. Schoch, Ph.D., discussed his new book (co-authored with Robert Bauval), Origins of the Sphinx: Celestial Guardian of Pre-Pharaonic Civilization.
The evidence indicates that the Sphinx goes back thousands of years earlier than the traditional Egyptological date of circa 2500 B.C., he cited. Schoch now concludes the Sphinx dates back some 12,000 or more years to the time of the last ice age. This corresponds to a time the ancient Egyptians referred to as Zep Tepi, a primordial golden age. The head of the current Sphinx is not the original one, he continued, and was re-carved in Dynastic times possibly to look like Khufu, the reputed builder of the Great Pyramid.
Shoch contends that a major cataclysm took place around 9700 BC, with coronal mass ejections (solar plasma) triggering volcanic activity, earthquakes, fires, and massive floods, and this wiped out the sophisticated ancient civilizations that had been flourishing. He also talked about a possible "Hall of Records" being hidden in the left paw of the Sphinx. If recovered, this could be one of the best archaeological finds of all time, containing treasures and secrets of ancient technology, he enthused. A hole could be drilled into the area with a small camera placed inside to view the chamber, Schoch said, adding that he was hopeful the new Egyptian government might be more amenable to such a project than the previous Mubarak regime.
Alternative Archaeology Debate: Author Graham Hancock & Renegade Scholar Randall Carlson vs Skeptic Michael Shermer (Joe Rogan Experience show) https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1236...
Why not Europe, GeekyFreakyScientist?
How were the pyramids built? Graham Hancock answers in 5 minute video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U21uaEV...
Nassim Haramein on Egyptology - Who Built The Pyramids? FULL VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N7eA...
The world's oldest observatory? How Aboriginal astronomy provides clues to ancient life http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-12...An ancient Aboriginal site at a secret location in the Victorian bush could be the oldest astronomical observatory in the world, pre-dating Stonehenge and even the Great Pyramids of Giza.
Scientists studying the Wurdi Youang stone arrangement say it could date back more than 11,000 years and provide clues into the origins of agriculture.
Duane Hamacher, a leader in the study of Indigenous astronomy, has been working with Aboriginal elders at the site to reconstruct their knowledge of the stars and planets.
"Some academics have referred to this stone arrangement here as Australia's version of Stonehenge," Dr Hamacher said.
If the site is more than 7,000 years old, it will rewrite history and further disprove the notion that first Australians were uniformly nomadic hunter-gatherers.
Is this mysterious site Australia’s Stonehenge? http://www.news.com.au/national/queen...
"The mound is one of the oldest; I should say the oldest, forms of temples in the world and dates back to the Palaeolithic age with the advent of first man."
A curious 1909 article concerning "Egyptian artifacts" found in Arizona's Grand Canyon http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/n...
That story has always been a bit of a puzzler. I have to regard it as a tall tale for now. If the cave even exists, artifacts could be from some other culture. Since nobody knows where it is, we may never know.
also familiar with the story. Somebody has to produce hard evidence . If not, another tale with no proof.
I just completed a trip to Florence, Italy and we were lucky to walk to the top of il duomo which was constructed by Brunelleschi....they talked to us about how his construction of the dome cannot be replicated by modern engineers today-it always collapses. There were also statues that had once resided outside of the building and now reside in a small corner of a stairwell leading to the dome-they also have no clue how those were put there since the width of the stairs and windows are too small. I understand that the 9th-11th century is not "ancient" but it is old...I marveled at so many things in that city-the grandiose architecture, art work, weaponry, and cosmological instruments that many brilliant people today would have issue designing/creating. We also visited museos Galileo and DaVinci....both men had very futuristic ,some may even say alien,intelligence. Their understanding of complex astronomy, mathematics, engineering(not just of their time but predicted things of our time e.g. Scuba equipment, bikes, planes, wing suits, tanks, etc), medicine, anatomy, language, etc, etc in my opinion proves that it was absolutely possible that even with the lack of modern amenities and technology, great things could have been built by men far older than they.
James wrote: "HIDDEN CHAMBERS FOUND IN GREAT PYRAMID…https://gizadeathstar.com/2017/08/hid..."I've been wondering for the last few years why they weren't using such things as infra-red thermography on the Great Pyramid, when it's been used for so many other sites - notably including the rest of Egypt - so it's great to see they are finally scanning the pyramid. Of course we already know for fact that there are hidden 'rooms/corridors' in the pyramid, but it'll be interesting to see what they specifically find.
Though I still don't know why we haven't got the technology to further investigate that hidden chamber a robot got into with a camera, showing there was some metal inside.
Nick wrote: "I just completed a trip to Florence, Italy and we were lucky to walk to the top of il duomo which was constructed by Brunelleschi....they talked to us about how his construction of the dome cannot ..."An insightful and colorful report Nick! I envy your trip to Florence... It's on my bucket list.
I watched an interesting documentary on TV the other night about Stonehenge, with lots of new information I wasn't aware of.Firstly: Archaeologists discovered a large settlement two miles away from Stonehenge where they found a vast number of animal bones (mostly pigs) - which meant that the site was used for feasting, as most 'common people' couldn't afford to eat meat at that time. The bones of the pigs were analysed and it was found that they came from all over Britain - from as far away as Wales (interestingly, where the stones for Stonehenge came from) and Scotland. It was concluded that a) the settlement was home to those who constructed Stonehenge and b) that masses of people journeyed for months from all over Britain to arrive at the site for the winter solstice (which we know is connected to Stonehenge). The experts likened it to people from all backgrounds converging once a year to attend Glastonbury festival - only the journeys would have been, of course, a hell of a lot longer and more arduous.
Secondly: It has been discovered that the original site of Stonehenge, before the stones were erected, had been a burial ground. The infamous so-called 'blue stones' that are still on the site (the small stones, not the larger ones that make up the actual Stonehenge) were originally positioned in a circle round the edge of the Stonehenge site - prior to Stonehenge being erected. Underneath those stones making a circle, there have been found remains of cremated bodies - who must have been revered and important people because their bodies were cremated at such high temperatures, akin to cremation temperatures of today - and in order to do that, they would have had to specially build cremation structures; the sort which would never have been used for common people.
Thirdly: And this is the most interesting of all. People have always wondered WHY the site in Salisbury Plain was used to build Stonehenge, when it is so out of the way, and the stones came all the way from Wales. It has been discovered that there were several naturally formed STRAIGHT lines in the ground which, on the winter solstice, point straight towards the dying sun. It is therefore believed that the site was seen as extremely special and 'divine', due to these 'otherworldly' lines; as they would have been seen at the time.
So, first came the lines, making the site divinely important, then they built a stone circle to bury the cremated remains of important figures, and then, hundreds of years later, the actual Stonehenge was erected.
Yet there are still a number of mysteries surrounding the actual Stonehenge construction...
Here's more about the burial ground aspect:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...
Fascinating new details on Stonehenge!
Civilization One: The World Is Not as You Thought it WasThis is the extraordinary story of how the quest to try to crack the mystery of the Megalithic Yard - an ancient unit of linear measurement - led to the discovery of compelling evidence pointing to the existence of an unknown, highly advanced culture which was the precursor to the earliest known civilizations such as the Sumerians and the Egyptians. There must have been a Civilization One. The authors show how this very precise unit of 82.966656cm, proven to have been used in the construction of thousands of megalithic structures in Britain and France, was derived from observing the rate of the spin of the Earth - based on a form of geometry that had 366 degrees to match the 366 rotations of the Earth in a year. They reveal how this is part of an integrated system, far more advanced than anything used today, which forms the basis of both the Imperial and the Metric systems. The ancient scientists understood the dimensions, motions and relationships of the Earth, Moon and Sun - they measured the solar system and even understood how the speed of light was integrated into the movements of our planet. The implications of these revelations go far beyond the fascination of discovering
Really cool documentary which I'm watching now (who wants to "buddy watch" it with me?)...Unlocking Hidden Knowledge of The Ancient World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOwTq...
The Modern Antiquarian by punk rocker genius Julian Cope, is an excellent introduction to Britain's Megalithic history and alludes to a high science culture from the past.THE TIMES said in a review that this book is "Deeply impressive! ancient history: the new rock 'n' roll.' "
800,000 years old?!I've always felt the Sphinx is much older than currently assumed, but figured maybe it was 5-20 thousand years older...But 800,000 years???? How could that be?
Not sure of the validity to this "scientific study" mentioned in this article, probably it goes against the mass of scientific literature...However, there is an actual link to the study conducted (see below):
Antediluvian monument? Scientific study says the Sphinx may be up to 800,000 years old https://www.ancient-code.com/antedilu...
“…it is the sea level during the Calabrian phase which is the closest to the present mark with the highest GES (Great Egyptian Sphinx) hollow at its level. High level of sea water also caused the Nile overflowing and created long-living water-bodies. As to time, it corresponds to 800000 years."
Here's the link to the Russian scientists' paper/study: http://mgu.bg/geoarchmin/naterials/64...
Wow. I don't know whether they are right but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.They have now found bones from H. Sapiens in Morocco that are 300,000 years old, give or take, and the species has been around a lot longer. It's also possible an ancestor species made it. We know several other hominids used stone tools and fire.
It still blows my mind that it could be that old. I'll be interested to see if other geologists weigh in on the paper.
Jim wrote: "Wow. I don't know whether they are right but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.They have now found bones from H. Sapiens in Morocco that are 300,000 years old, give or take, and the species has b..."
I wouldn't dismiss it either.
However, I just forward that "study" to a scientist and this is what she replied with:
This paper didn't tell me anything scientific. It had a hypothesis and gave historical statements regarding waterlevels in Egypt during the pyramid's existence and referred to some papers, which I really have no idea what are about.
Personally, to me this was more an article....there was no methodology/tools used/description of tests performed...etc....that showed the validity of their argument. How did they measure these watermarks? what were they compared to? are there other theories out there about these marks that this study ruled out?
James wrote: "800,000 years old?!I've always felt the Sphinx is much older than currently assumed, but figured maybe it was 5-20 thousand years older...But 800,000 years???? How could that be?
Not sure of the..."
800,000 years old? Wow! Like the hypothesis that the Sphinx dates from around 10,000 B.C wasn't incredible enough!
For those unfamiliar with the issues of dating the Sphinx and its water erosion, here's a summary and some other thoughts:
From Wikipedia:
"R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz, a French mystic and alternative Egyptologist, first claimed evidence of water erosion on the walls of the Sphinx enclosure in the 1950s. John Anthony West, an author and alternative Egyptologist, investigated Schwaller de Lubicz's ideas further and, in 1989, sought the opinion of Robert M. Schoch, a geologist and associate professor of natural science at the College of General Studies at Boston University.
From his investigation of the enclosure's geology, Schoch concluded the main type of weathering evident on the Sphinx enclosure walls was caused by prolonged and extensive rainfall. According to Schoch, the area has experienced a mean annual rainfall of approximately one inch (2.5 cm) since the Old Kingdom (c. 2686 – 2134 BC), such that, since Egypt's last period of significant rainfall ended between the late fourth and early 3rd millennium BC, the Sphinx's construction must date to the 6th or 5th millennium BC.
(...)
Colin Reader, a British geologist, agrees that the suggested evidence of weathering indicates prolonged water erosion. Reader found, inter alia, that the flow of rainwater causing the weathering had been stemmed by the construction of 'Khufu's quarries', which lie directly "upstream" of the Sphinx enclosure, and therefore concludes that the Sphinx must predate the reign of Khufu (2589 – 2566 BC)...by several hundred years. Reader disagrees with Schoch's palaeometeorological estimates, and instead concludes that the Sphinx dates to the Early Dynastic Period (c. 3150 – 2686 BC). To explain the disproportionate size of the head compared to the body, Reader, as does Schoch, also suggests the head of the Sphinx was originally that of a lion and recarved sometime later in the likeness of a pharaoh."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_...
It should be noted that Egyptologists themselves have refuted such scientific analysis! Crazy, right?
What with Wikipedia being Wikipedia, that article doesn't mention what is written on their page for John Anthony West:
"In 1993 (West's) work with Robert M. Schoch...was presented by Charlton Heston, the host in an NBC special called “The Mystery of the Sphinx”. The documentary contends that the main type of weathering evident on the Great Sphinx and surrounding enclosure walls could only have been caused by prolonged and extensive rainfall during the time period from 10,000 to 5000 BCE...This challenged the conventional dating of the carving of the statue circa 2500 BCE. West suggested that the Sphinx may be over twice as old as originally determined, whereas Schoch made a more conservative determination of between 5000 and 7000 BCE."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_An...
West's book: Serpent in the Sky: The High Wisdom of Ancient Egypt
The earlier date of 10,000 B.C sounds even more likely when you start reading books by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, who place emphasis on the date of 10,000 B.C for many other reasons (as though people of that time had left markers to indicate the importance of that (circa.) date. And don't overlook the fact that 10,000 B.C corresponds to the astrological age of Leo - the lion (the Sphinx).
See: Fingerprints of the Gods: The Evidence of Earth's Lost Civilization
As mentioned briefly above, it's also become assumed - for very good reasons - that the face of the Sphinx was not that of a man's (it's assumed Pharaoh Khafre chiselled away the original face of the Sphinx and replaced it with his own likeness), therefore it's also been assumed that the original face of the Sphinx would have been a lion's. (This theory explains why the current Sphinx's head is small and not in proportion with the body.)
Incidentally, to take things a crazy step further, in my book Matrix Visions, I show an upside-down photograph of the Sphinx head, which, it could be argued (but also argued against, sure) that it looks like a cat's head.
Funnily enough, the Sphinx doesn't get a mention in the ancient Pyramid texts, which seems extremely odd to say the least. But having just done a little research to confirm my facts before posting this, I've come across this nugget which I'd never heard before:
Author Robert Temple writes (in 2009): "And as for the lack of the Sphinx in the ancient texts problem, that could be explained... The Sphinx was often mentioned in the Pyramid Texts, but not in a way which the Egyptologists could recognise. I quote the many references in the Pyramid Texts and the Coffin Texts to a giant Anubis (god with a dog/jackal head) at Giza, which is twice specifically described as sitting beside a causeway, and which was surrounded by a body of water with various names, the most famous of which is Jackal Lake, and another being the Winding Waterway. Those texts also describe the crucial ceremonies which were carried out beside and upon that sacred lake. The son of the deceased pharaoh was required to wash the entrails of his father, in their four jars, in Jackal Lake, during the period of his father's mummification, a process which took 70 days. This purification ritual was considered essential as part of the freeing of the deceased pharaoh's spirit to rise up to the sky and become an akh, a glorified spirit. The Sphinx was thus both the guardian of the sacred necropolis and the focal point of the pharaonic resurrection cult.
"Egyptologists are always moaning and whingeing about the 'fact' that the Sphinx is never mentioned in the Pyramid Texts, or any other texts for that matter. But they are looking for the wrong thing. They are looking for a giant lion with a man's head. But the Sphinx was never a lion, and as I discovered, it did not have a man's head until the Middle Kingdom period, which commenced about 2000 BC. The face on the Sphinx is that of the third pharaoh of the 12th Dynasty, whose name was Amenemhet II. The photographic evidence of this is given in our book. The human head was carved out of the neck and stump of the Anubis head, which was vandalised during the First Intermediate Period at the end of the Old Kingdom, when chaos reigned and the Giza Plateau was sacked by rampaging violent mobs."
So maybe the original head of the Sphinx wasn't a lion at all (even though that fits into the 10,000 B.C Age of Leo date). It sounds very likely to me that it had the head of a dog/jackal.
As for the water erosion subject, Robert Temple has this to say (in the same article):
"As for the erosion, that was caused as a result of the Moat. The Sphinx itself has horizontal erosion, because it was sitting in a lake, the level of which rose and fell with the seasons. But the walls of the pit have both horizontal and vertical erosion, hence the earlier suggestion that the vertical erosion must have been caused by descending rain. But what I believe really caused this was the continual dredging of the moat, which was always being filled with windblown sand which had to be removed. As everyone knows, when you dredge, the water pours down as you remove the solid things. And as this happened, particularly on the south side, the dredging water poured down heavily, scouring out the vertical crevasses."
https://grahamhancock.com/templer1/
So here, Temple is pointing out that the erosion is more likely to have come from the Sphinx being - to a degree - submerged, as opposed to being eroded from rainfall...
...which fits nicely into these new claims that the Sphinx could be as old as 800,000 years ago.
Also in my spiritual conspiracy book Matrix Visions which I mentioned earlier, I have many references to dogs and cats being the 'aliens/demons/whatever-you-wanna-call-otherworldly-beings' who are in charge of things behind the curtain (coming from my own spiritual meditations and 'given visions'). Yeah, sounds mad, I know. Nearly as mad as there being an ancient civilsation who built the Sphinx 800,000 years ago, which is still standing! ;)
So I find it very interesting indeed that the head of the Sphinx may have been the head of a dog.
Personally, for many reasons, that makes absolute sense to me. And I also want to investigate things further with regards to the Dog Star which is prominent in Egyptology.
If the Sphinx is way, way older than even that old date of 10,000 B.C, it seems likely that it had the head of a dog, and then when the age of Leo came, it was replaced by the head of a lion (which means all of Hancock and co.'s research still makes sense), before being replaced with the head of a pharaoh - the identity of which is still open to debate.
Believing in an 800,000 year old civilisation sounds like one mighty leap of faith and thought to take - but I'm open to the possibility for sure.
Harry wrote: "The earlier date of 10,000 B.C sounds even more likely when you start reading books by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, who place emphasis on the date of 10,000 B.C for many other reasons (as though people of that time had left markers to indicate the importance of that (circa.) date. And don't overlook the fact that 10,000 B.C corresponds to the astrological age of Leo - the lion (the Sphinx). ..."Agreed, 10,000 B.C. seems feasible.
Just not too sure how those researchers arrived at that 800,000 B.C. date!
Like you tho, I'm open to a far older, even a million years B.C., civilization.
The water erosion mystery re the Sphinx is one I've been hearing about for quite a few years...What do Egyptologists have to say about it?
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Sentinel Project (other topics)The Modern Antiquarian: A Pre-Millennial Odyssey Through Megalithic Britain (other topics)
Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings: Evidence of Advanced Civilization in the Ice Age (other topics)
Civilization One: The World is Not as You Thought it Was: Uncovering the Super-science of Prehistory (other topics)
Memory Code, The (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Julian Cope (other topics)Christopher Knight (other topics)
Andrew Collins (other topics)
Brien Foerster (other topics)
Robert M. Schoch (other topics)
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I tend to agree overall, Jona.