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FRINGE SCIENCE > Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?

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message 451: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) One issue that will always be a problem is trying to interpret the past through the lens of our own worldview. The ancients didn't have separate categories for science, religion, and magic. Those distinctions are relatively modern. Many languages still don't have an equivalent to the word religion because it's not something seen as a separate category.


message 452: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Jim wrote: "One issue that will always be a problem is trying to interpret the past through the lens of our own worldview. The ancients didn't have separate categories for science, religion, and magic. Those d..."

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke


message 453: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) Maybe any sufficiently advanced magic is also indistinguishable from technology.


message 454: by James, Group Founder (last edited May 14, 2018 11:09PM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments That too. It cuts both ways, as you imply.

But these things are almost impossible for us modern folk to understand, due to exactly what you wrote in an earlier post i.e. the hard and fast divisions we make between things like science/religion/art/magic - as if they are all completely mutually exclusive. That lack of comprehension includes most scientists too, dare I say it...although quantum physicists probably are most open to understanding these concepts due to the lack of boundaries in that particular science.

I sense we as a civilization are heading toward a new religion and also a new science, where they fuse together...Something that could maybe be termed "spiritual science"? Or the science of magic? I dunno, can't think of the right term.

Maybe whatever they are doing at CERN, which also is using artworks and magic symbolism heavily, is an example of where we are headed.

Anyway, I see Ancient Egypt as one colossal spiritual science magic show that our civilization is way too young to comprehend. Likewise with Teotihuacan and the various other Latin American pyramids, Stonehenge and numerous other sites around the planet. Maybe Gobekli Tepe too.

How about the Easter Island statues?
You think there's anything advanced about how such heavy objects would have been transported by such an isolated supposedly no technology society? Each statue weighs 80 metric tons...Rapa Nui folklore tells of the statues walking to the distant location on coast of the island, animated by magic...

The Famous Easter Island Heads Have Hidden Bodies https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorna...

Mystery surrounding ancient Easter Island people deepens https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sc...


message 455: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Forbidden Archeology on Coast to Coast: https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...

In the first half, Michael A. Cremo continued his explorations of forbidden archeology, discussing anomalous artifacts, the hidden history of the human race, knowledge filtration systems operating within the scientific paradigm, the Silurian Hypothesis, Vedic cosmology and much more. He described the work of archaeologist JT Robinson, who used psychics to sense information about ancient humans who lived millions of years ago. He said the psychic would "lie down in the cave" where Robinson was engaged in research, and use a fossil bone from the site as a focus point to see what the life of the creature might have been like. Cremo also discussed Vedic (Hindu) cosmology and its ancient descriptions of fabulous cities, and devices that resemble atomic weapons and UFO-like flying machines.

Cremo said that many modern UFO reports match favorably with descriptions in ancient Indian religious texts, which recounted stories of flying machines such as one that "flew like a butterfly" and disappeared and then reappeared in the sky. He went on to express his opinion that humans were most likely planted here millions of years ago by an alien race and that, essentially, "we’re all extraterrestrials." Cremo also discussed the case of tiny metal spheres found deep in a mine in South Africa, which all contained precise grooves carved into them. As a race, he believes humans are "beings of pure consciousness" who "use the body as a vehicle" for consciousness.

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...


message 456: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Jim wrote: "I didn't find Cremo's book to be all that persuasive. Many out of place artifacts could have other explanations and don't necessarily prove that the vedas are history books.

The book that really c..."


Thanks. Will take Cremo's books off my list and replace with Dunn's.
I like the look of this one:

The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt

The Giza Power Plant Technologies of Ancient Egypt by Christopher Dunn

And this:

Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt: Advanced Engineering in the Temples of the Pharaohs

Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt Advanced Engineering in the Temples of the Pharaohs by Christopher Dunn


message 457: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) I liked the power plant book but I don't actually believe it. I'm not sure Dunn really does either but he makes a good case for it.


message 458: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments In the following videos and books, scientist and author Robert M. Schoch (associate professor of Natural Sciences at the College of General Studies at Boston University), puts forward his analysis that the Egyptian pyramids and the Sphinx are Pre-Pharaonic and date back to 9,700 B.C. (give or take a decade or two!)...Note that Schoch's scientific analysis contrasts with standard/conventional Egyptology which says the pyramids only date back to 2,500 BC...Instead, under Schoch's model, the Pyramids would have been built at around the same time as Göbekli Tepe (the amazing neolithic archaeological ruins in Turkey founded in the 10th millennium BCE) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli...


Robert Schoch talks about the pyramids and ancient Egypt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIP3C...

Robert Schoch Explains Sphinx Water Erosion Hypothesis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSjnv...


Voices of the Rocks : A Scientist Looks at Catastrophes and Ancient Civilizations

Voices of the Rocks A Scientist Looks at Catastrophes and Ancient Civilizations by Robert M. Schoch

Origins of the Sphinx: Celestial Guardian of Pre-Pharaonic Civilization

Origins of the Sphinx Celestial Guardian of Pre-Pharaonic Civilization by Robert M. Schoch

Pyramid Quest: Secrets of the Great Pyramid and the Dawn of Civilization

Pyramid Quest Secrets of the Great Pyramid and the Dawn of Civilization by Robert M. Schoch

Voyages of the Pyramid Builders

Voyages of the Pyramid Builders by Robert M. Schoch

Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future

Forgotten Civilization The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future by Robert M. Schoch


message 459: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Further to the above... this is the same geologist...

Mysteries of the Sphinx https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/...

Geologist and author Robert Schoch joins Jimmy Church (email) on Saturday’s program to discuss a new discovery that supports Schoch's contention that the Great Sphinx guarded a chamber beneath it and that the original form of the Sphinx was that of the lioness Mehit.


BIOGRAPHY:
Robert Schoch has a Ph.D. in Geology and Geophysics from Yale and has been working in Egypt focusing on the Great Sphinx and Great Pyramid, since 1990. He is a tenured full-time faculty member at the College of General Studies of Boston University where he has taught a variety of science courses since 1984. Based on his geological studies, Robert has determined that the Sphinx's origins go back to pre-dynastic times, thousands of years older than previously thought. In recent years, Dr. Schoch has expanded his research to encompass pyramids and associated structures around the world.


message 460: by Janet (new)

Janet Colbert | 60 comments That’s interesting


message 461: by David (new)

David Elkin | 508 comments Decided to buy this one.

Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future
Robert M. SchochAugust 10, 2012
Sold by Simon and Schuster


message 462: by David (new)

David Elkin | 508 comments A quick follow up from Dr. Schoch's website:
"Thus there is a strong case to be made that as early as the First Dynasty (when some of the first written records in Egypt were kept), the Sphinx – which at that time was a lioness named Mehit – existed on the Giza Plateau and guarded a locked chamber where archives were stored. How far back in time the proto-Sphinx goes, so far the written records do not tell us; however, the various analyses carried out by Robert Bauval and me suggest a date going back to at least the 11th millennium BCE. Such an extreme age is not contradicted by the hieroglyphic evidence that I have just discussed. Indeed, there is a hieroglyphic symbol that represents the forepart of a lion (sign “F4” in the standardized sign list compiled by Alan Gardiner; see the Archaeological Discovery article) that may have been inspired by the proto-Sphinx/lioness prior to the body being fully carved. This symbol may be the root of the ancient Egyptian word for “ancient” (that is, ancient to the Egyptians 4,000 to 5,000 or more years ago), which is in keeping with the proto-Sphinx (the original statue of the lioness Mehit) being extremely old indeed."


https://www.robertschoch.com/mehit.html


message 463: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Nice one, Dave. Mr Schoch is getting a bit more respect from mainstream academia lately. If the sphinx is at least about 12,000 years old as he says, how do you think that changes our assessment of human history?


message 464: by David (new)

David Elkin | 508 comments Time to update and reprint the books. Remember, at one time the best minds in the world were convinced the world was flat and we were the center of the universe. A major shift coming soon.


message 465: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Agreed.
But I mean would the Sphinx being about 8,000 years older than previously thought prove the ancients had advanced science? Or is it simply that they started building these monuments earlier and nobody knows how or why they did it?

Also, how much does Gobekli Tepe tie into this need to rewrite human history? Even if Mr Schoch is wrong about the age of the Sphinx, the science and engineering behind the 10,000 BC Gobekli Tepe ruins is pretty amazing. Especially when you consider Mankind was supposedly in the Stone Age still and all we humans knew was how to use fire but we hadn't discovered the wheel and we still hadn't domesticated pack animals to help us (again, according to official history).

This National Geographic documentary Gobekli Tepe is worth a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Ybp...

What if there are even older impressive engineering feats all over the world (but yet to be discovered) that date back to say 20,000 years ago? Or hundreds of thousands of years ago?

How come experts STILL can't figure out the reasons our ancestors built the Egyptian or Latin American Pyramids or Gobekli Tepe or the Easter Island statues?

Is it simply time to admit that our scholars really don't have a clue what our ancestors were up to or how advanced scientifically they really were?


message 466: by David (new)

David Elkin | 508 comments They think they have figured out the Easter Island thing.

I don't think it is fair to say our scholars don't have a clue. Mainly it is they don't have the evidence completely at hand. The problem I have with the "experts" is how much they resist change and thinking out of the box. Look at the Dinosaur studies. At one time, no way did they have feathers. Now all of the top scholars in the field say they do. The first Jurrassic Park movie was based not on false knowledge, but incorrect knowledge based upon current studies. Just one example:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2...

We have only been able to start understanding the language of the Ancient Egyptians since around 1800 with the Rosetta Stone.

How about the Sphinx "For thousands of years, sand buried the colossus up to its shoulders, creating a vast disembodied head atop the eastern edge of the Sahara. Then, in 1817, a Genoese adventurer, Capt. Giovanni Battista Caviglia, led 160 men in the first modern attempt to dig out the Sphinx. They could not hold back the sand, which poured into their excavation pits nearly as fast as they could dig it out. The Egyptian archaeologist Selim Hassan finally freed the statue from the sand in the late 1930s. “The Sphinx has thus emerged into the landscape out of shadows of what seemed to be an impenetrable oblivion,” the New York Times declared. "

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...

No simple answers to discovering the truth. It is out there but you have to be open-minded and do the work


message 467: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Makes sense Dave, thanks.


message 468: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 1422 comments One problem with the Sphinx is that everyone agrees Rameses II "redecorated" it, including using his face, so it is a little difficult to know exactly what was there before. However, the evidence of erosion patterns around the base certainly suggest before 10,000 BC. As too why they built such a thing in those times, apart from religious enthusiasm, I don't think anyone has any idea.


message 469: by J. (new)

J. Gowin | 136 comments There have been some period graves found at the site of an ancient lake called Gobero. I've included a link below. I haven't found any pollen studies from the lake sediments. If anyone runs across those studies please link them.

https://paulsereno.uchicago.edu/disco...


message 470: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Really great book this one...Written by punk rocker turned author/researcher Julian Cope:

The Modern Antiquarian: A Pre-Millennial Odyssey Through Megalithic Britain

The Modern Antiquarian A Pre-Millennial Odyssey Through Megalithic Britain by Julian Cope


message 471: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Newgrange SENSATIONAL Discovery - Ireland's Göbekli Tepe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtYBu...

Scorched earth during heatwave reveals new monument at Newgrange https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/he...
Henge believed to have been built some 500 years after Newgrange


message 472: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments All "just a coincidence" apparently...because the Ancients were DUMB...Even tho, um, this discovery "could help scientists to create new nanoparticles—particles between 1 and 100 nanometers in size"!

Go figure!

But always remember...our ancestors were dumb!

Ancient Egypt: Incredible Electromagnetic Discovery in Great Pyramid of Giza's Hidden Chambers https://www.newsweek.com/ancient-egyp...

"Now, an international team of physicists has found that, under the right conditions, the Great Pyramid can concentrate electromagnetic energy in its internal chambers and under its base."


message 473: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jul 31, 2018 08:38PM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Jim wrote: "I strongly suspect the Giza pyramids are also located above telluric currents. There appears to be an ancient technology around tapping that energy and redirecting it. I haven't been able to suss out how they used it. ..."

Makes sense...Telluric currents are kinda like ley lines, I assume?

And yes, I agree this recent electromagnetic discovery in the Great Pyramid of Giza is not proof of the pyramids being part of a power grid...But it does seem like further evidence or circumstantial evidence to bolster that argument/theory, I would think...

If the Pyramids were some type of ancient free energy system, I suspect/guess the tricky part for modern researchers is that we are programmed in this era to look for more obvious signs of technology to mirror our own systems...hardware, wires, circuits etc...Whereas whoever the builders were - whether pharaonic or pre-pharaonic - they may have been using something more simple...Like subtle energies and organic Earth energies to produce the same results or better we currently create with all our bulky and complex equipment.


message 474: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments p.s. The reason for my sarcasm in earlier post with article link is because that article (written by Newsweek journo) made this assumption: "The unusual properties of the pyramid are almost certainly just a coincidence of its structure, as it is highly unlikely that the Ancient Egyptians knew anything about this." That sort of addition pisses me off as, 1). It's not news reporting to add commentary like that, it makes it more of an opinion piece, and 2). How do we as a civilization yet know what these Ancients were capable of when we keep making new scientific discoveries at structures like the Pyramids every other week?


message 475: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Jim wrote: "Telluric currents are something that science recognizes. Electric currents flow within the earth. To some extent, they follow underground rivers, also various mineral veins.

Ley lines began as an ..."


Something like ley lines seem to exist in every native culture on Earth e.g. The Aboriginal people here in Australia had the concept of the "song lines", Native American peoples had something similar.

But yes, you're probably right that ley lines first came to our attention to our Western culture with England's old churches.

And imagine if you are right that the pyramids could regulate the weather and channel the energy into levitating objects and the like.

Nothing can be discounted at this early stage, in my opinion.


message 476: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Great Pyramid of Giza can ‘FOCUS electromagnetic energy’ in SHOCK discovery https://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...
"THE Great Pyramid of Giza had the ability to concentrate electromagnetic energy through its chambers to create larger pockets of energy at its base, according to startling new research."

Did Ancient Humans Have Knowledge of the Electromagnetic (EM) Spectrum? https://grahamhancock.com/kreisbergg1/
By Glenn Kreisberg, Radio Frequency (RF) Spectrum Engineer


message 477: by Tony (last edited Aug 01, 2018 06:01PM) (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments I think that we may be ignoring a counter intuitive point. The top of the pyramid was coated with electrum; an alloy made of gold and silver. If there is one certainty about our species across time and culture, it is our lust for gold. Why is this desire so deeply imbedded in us? Is there something about gold that we do not know?


message 478: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Tony wrote: "Is there something about gold that we do not know?..."

There's got to be as almost every civilization has been obsessed with it.

Maybe gold has other uses that our modern science is still yet to discover...


message 479: by Tony (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments Cowboys and aliens....: )


message 480: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) Gold is conductive, not as well as copper or silver. The main thing about gold is it doesn't tarnish. I think that's some heavy symbolism right there before you get into it's usefulness in electronics.


message 481: by Tony (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments Agree, also from an 'economic, monetary' perspective; gold is: rare, not easily counterfeited, durable, a store of value and somewhat portable. But I think there must be something else going on with respect to the near universal worship of it. Even alchemists tried to transmute other metals into gold. It is like we have been programmed to desire it. Golden calf, Golden fleece etc...


message 482: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Tony wrote: "But I think there must be something else going on with respect to the near universal worship of it. Even alchemists tried to transmute other metals into gold. It is like we have been programmed to desire it. Golden calf, Golden fleece etc... ..."

I'm totally guessing here, but just somehow sense the universal, eternal desire for gold is something more than programming or symbolism...I think there must be something yet to be discovered (or rediscovered) scientifically about gold...


message 484: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Portugal Megaliths (Evora) Documentary - VERY INTERESTING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_-6e...


message 485: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Watch "Asteroid Wiped Out ‘Highly Advanced’ Civilization 13,000 Years Ago, Will Happen Again" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k0hl...


message 486: by James, Group Founder (last edited Aug 07, 2018 10:44PM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments So off the back of previous articles posted in this thread about the Egyptian pyramids possibly being an ancient power system (all speculation of course)-

It's also interesting perhaps that slabs of mica, a mineral that is not only much more commonly found in Brazil than Mexico but also has electrostatic properties, are found in the pyramids of Teotihuacan in Mexico - this video below mentions that.

The Place Where GODS Were Born - ANCIENT City of Teotihuacan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k0hl...

MEXICO’S MYTERIOUS MICA https://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/ar...
A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER LOOKS AT UNEXPLORED POSSIBILITIES

"The mineral mica is at the center of an archaeological mystery: why did the ancient builders of the Teotihuacan Pyramid complex in Mexico use slabs of it on the gigantic Pyramid of the Sun, as flooring near the Avenue of the Dead, and as lining for the walls of underground tunnels there?"

"Is it possible that the ancient engineers utilized the properties of this material in ways that we have not discovered? I will propose here that our predecessor civilizations had active applications for the mineral, uses that are not part of modern life or technology."

https://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/ar...


message 487: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) I just saw a video today that got me rethinking some things. A woman who is a massage therapist began using tuning forks in her practice. Long story short, she rediscovered the human aura and attributes magnetic properties to it. Some anomalies in this field can be connected with emotions and more physical ailments. She was able to fix a surprising number of problems by manipulating the fields using aluminum tuning forks.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=topPj...

In the course of her talk, she tried to connect her discoveries with science. She mentions Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenic fields. That's the part that really got me thinking.

* I've been thinking and saying for a while that ancient practices we write off as magic and superstition may be more like technologies that we no longer understand.

* Ancient peoples all over the world engaged in large engineering projects somehow connected to harnessing the energy of the earth.

* If morphogenic fields have an electromagnetic basis, there's no telling what is possible to manipulate if you know how.

* I've been going back and forth on the cause of paranormal phenomena and whether or not they can be explained in our current materialist paradigm or whether we need something else. This current line of thought has me leaning back towards the materialist paradigm.

Sorry that was a bit long-winded but I'm trying to sum up my thought process as best as I can.


message 488: by Tony (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments Interesting link, thanks Jim. If there was a past 'golden age', and we have lost a vital connection with something greater than us, what does that mean for the material paradigm we in the west have embraced for nearly 500 years if these events can't be explained by empirical science? Are we doomed to a dead end of ignorance and destruction?


message 489: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) I would suggest that empirical science needn't follow the materialist paradigm. We would just need to find new ways to test hypotheses.

As I said about going back and forth, sometimes I think there's this sort of Platonic/Jungian level of reality that is a type of consciousness but can interact with our reality in limited ways. There's a part of me that's relieved that maybe the materialist paradigm can eventually get to grips with some of this stuff. It would still involve challenging a lot of assumptions we currently have.

Paranormal phenomena are often, maybe always, associated with altered states. Certain EM frequencies can stimulate parts of the brain which may either allow the brain to tune in previously unavailable stimuli or produce those effects in the brain. I tend to favor the former.

I think there's a kind of memory that can be somehow stored in various places. Sheldrake calls it the morphogenic field. It explains all sorts of things from ghosts to the feeling you get when you walk into a cathedral.

I still can't figure out how it explains everything. What leaves the burn marks where "saucers" have been seen on the ground? What causes UFO ejecta to have isotope levels that don't exist in nature, not even in space? Why do paranormal entities seem to have wills of their own and sometime appear to be running on limited programming?

Maybe there is a consciousness behind some of that which can project energy with some precision. Not sure, still mulling over this new idea.


message 490: by James, Group Founder (last edited Aug 12, 2018 09:43PM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments What about British magician and researcher Gordon White and his theories that magic will not be provable by materialist science? He says magic exists beyond it...

Am currently reading his book The Chaos Protocols: Magical Techniques for Navigating the New Economic Reality and here's one quote that potentially relates to what you're bringing up Jim, (there are better quotes re science and magic, I just cannot find them right now):

The most insidious way the holographic bars trap you is by convincing you of their eternal, physical reality.

One of the most practicable ways of breaking out of these bars is through a diligent exploration of consciousness and probability. Marching in lockstep with a centralised, extractive late capitalist economic system is the religious faith known as scientific materialism. If only the physical exists, then only the physical has importance. If you are just a bag of chemicals, if your brain is the same thing as your mind, if you are simply a meat robot, then despite the lived personal experience of every human who has ever existed indicating the complete contrary, the worth and value of your life can be precisely measured in physical terms based on the objects you manage to accrue around you.

The hypothesis of materialism is extremely weak. A single example of the non-physical in action, be it telepathy or psi effects, a religious miracle of any flavour , a provable example of divination or precognition, and Richard Dawkins’s house of dreary cards comes crashing down. There are thousands and thousands of examples to choose from and you are well-served collecting those that are most personally meaningful to you over the course of your lifetime. It could be the otherwise impossible past life recollections of children, it could be the 120 years of university studies into telepathy and other psi results.

Find something that simply cannot be but is and get really knowledgeable about it. These data points become talismans to ward off the demon hosts of the materialist tyranny. The inherent weakness of the materialist hypothesis neatly explains why the scientific establishment remains wilfully, deliberately ignorant of and vigorously opposed to fields such as parapsychology. Inviting it into the canon of approved knowledge, even just as the unloved ginger stepchild of psychology (which it isn’t), breaks the rest of the college.

The Chaos Protocols Magical Techniques for Navigating the New Economic Reality by Gordon White


message 491: by Tony (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments Isn't this the issue that made Freud and Jung parted company? Guys I can't help it but I am on Freud's side here; rational over spiritual...


message 492: by James, Group Founder (last edited Aug 13, 2018 12:09AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Tony wrote: "Isn't this the issue that made Freud and Jung parted company? Guys I can't help it but I am on Freud's side here; rational over spiritual..."

Not so sure, Tony. The point is nobody has a copyright on the word rational, despite many public figures within scientific academia being self-proclaimed rationalists. So with material science, despite having a strong rational history as you allude to, there are now indicators it has become quite inflexible in recent decades and even dogmatic in a religion-like way with people like Richard Dawkins speaking within academia as if atheism is factual and not just another theory...Plus there are other factors like the ego of certain scientists and professors deriving from personal ambitions...and then there are corporations (e.g. Big Pharma) influencing/manipulating scientific research and academia to such an extent that sometimes what is called "science" is even anti-scientific or pseudoscienfic...or irrational...Not saying that's regularly the case or that science doesn't aim to be rational over all, but there are many intersecting factors that seem to be limiting it...Maybe it's our society's beliefs also...

So I think what fits in with all that, especially re the inflexibility and dogma part, is the stubborn denial of anything that may challenge the entire model...I like both Freud and Jung, but some of the things that Jung talked about, especially in the fields of parapsychology, have been proven true since or else are very worthy of further studies. And certain scientific research that has been going on for decades (e.g. Princeton's 28 year study on scientific anomalies and precognition at the PEAR institute, psychedelic research, the farthest reaches of quantum physics, biocentricism etc, etc) still remains classified as "fringe science" or even scientific taboo, when much of it probably shouldn't be considering the depth of supporting evidence in many cases.

Jung unfortunately died too soon in my opinion so it seemed as if the clash between he and Freud ended with Freud being 100% right. Whereas I think with further research since, it's looking more like 50/50...


message 493: by Tony (new)

Tony Sunderland | 328 comments Mate, I think you made an excellent point on Dawkins and the fanatical tendency of the 'new atheism'. I also agree with the fallibility of the empirical method under the domain of biased and/or flawed stakeholders. There may indeed be a new 'truth' that transcends established reason. But until I can land the roulette ball where I want it to be, (or can verify that someone else can do it), I will stick with old paradigm.


message 494: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) James, I think, in principle, psi and other phenomena might be explained with a materialist paradigm. I'm not ruling out that maybe they can't be, just keeping open the possibility that they could.

I noted in my last post a few things that would certainly be difficult to explain. I would also add remote viewing. Any explanation for that doesn't lend itself well to a materialist paradigm. It fits better in a dualist (mind/matter or spirit/matter) paradigm.

Also considering that we might find a materialist explanation for some things but not everything. The ancients often didn't distinguish between science and magic. We don't really know what the pyramids were for or why menhirs were put up along ley lines. They could very well have a materialist explanation.


message 495: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Sayyyyyyyyy what?!
A second sphinx!

Stunning sphinx discovery: Workers make incredible find while fixing road http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/0...

A second sphinx? Mystery statue unearthed in Egypt https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/...

Egypt's famous sphinx monument may have a newly discovered twin.

Construction workers unearthed a similar-looking statue buried beneath Al-Kabbah Road between the ancient temples of Karnak and Luxor, local media reports.

While no photos have been published yet, officials confirmed the structure has a 'lion's body with a human head'. Tourists are welcome to visit the construction site and see the statue, but Egypt Today reports that it will need to remain embedded in the soil for some time.

Construction has been halted while authorities make decisions about what to do with the sphinx.

The original Great Sphinx of Giza (which translates to 'Father of Dread') on the west bank of the Nile is the oldest and largest known monumental sculpture in the world.

At 73 metres long and 20 metres high, the mythical creature is believed to resemble Pharaoh Khafre, who ruled Egypt at the time of its construction, sometime between 2550 and 2450BC.

Apart from a missing nose and beard, the statue was well preserved because it became buried up to its neck in sand until it was excavated in 1925.

There have long been rumours of other sphinx that may have been built to honour different pharaohs, but none have been found until now.

If the so-called second sphinx is found to be a genuine Ancient Egyptian structure, it could be more than 4000 years old.


message 496: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments To play the devil's advocate, this video is claiming this 2nd sphinx new story circulating in mainstream UK media is being sensationalised...Sounds like it is more a mini sphinx, but not on the scale or as impressive as the Great Sphinx in Giza...

Second Sphinx Found in Egypt? NO! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6pJ...


message 497: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Jim wrote: "James, I think, in principle, psi and other phenomena might be explained with a materialist paradigm. I'm not ruling out that maybe they can't be, just keeping open the possibility that they could....."

Yeah, I'm not ruling it out either...


message 498: by James, Group Founder (last edited Aug 16, 2018 12:27AM) (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments Thanks to The Elk in New Mexico for sending me this one...

The Squatter Man (Squatting Man) Petroglyphs | evidence of the Electric Universe http://www.theplasmaverse.com/verse/s...

The Squatter Man (Squatting Man or Stick Man) petroglyphs are an image recorded by nearly all races on all the continents back in the day. One day the ancients were painting colour rock art and then, nearly literally, they were painting strange white shapes and figures. Every one started at the same time with the same images. Either all races were in contact with each other or they were all inspired by the same event. The most likely way they could all have seen it was if the event was in the sky.

The discovery that objects from the Neolithic or Early Bronze Age carry patterns associated with high-current Z-pinches provides a possible insight into the origin and meaning of these ancient symbols produced by man. This paper directly compares the graphIcal and radiation data from high-current Z-pinches to these patterns. The paper focuses primarily, but not exclusively, on petroglyphs. It is found that a great many archaic petroglyphs can be classified according to plasma stability and instability data. As the same morphological types are found worldwide, the comparisons suggest the occurrence of an intense aurora, as might be produced if the solar wind had increased between one and two orders of magnitude, millennia ago
Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity (large pdf: http://www.theplasmaverse.com/pdfs/Ch... ) - Anthony L. Peratt

Anthony L. Peratt is a world leading research scientist on high energy Plasma Discharges. Perhaps the leading authority and some Plasma characteristics have been named as Peratt Instabilities. He has carried out field research on Petroglyphs (rock art carved into rocks) after noticing the similarity between high energy plasma discharges and the images recorded in rock art and cave drawings by nations all over the world. His conclusion is that the Squatter Man (Squatting Man) was the event that inspired all the images and it was a Plamsa Discharge witnessed by humans on earth.

The Tree of Life image (one of the stages of the Plasma Instability) was seen and recorded in Malta on pottery and carvings showing the Squatting Man and Tree of Life.


message 499: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) Unpublished Egyptian texts reveal new insights into ancient medicine

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-unpubli...


message 500: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 11380 comments This little video worth a lookie in my opinion...

New Evidence Shows the Great Pyramid of Giza Might Have Been a Giant Ancient Power Plant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8nl...


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