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Infinite Jest
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Archived 2015 Group Reads > Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace, WEEK 9

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message 1: by Zulfiya (new) - added it

Zulfiya (ztrotter) This is the thread to post comments about the next selection. It is a Thanksgiving week in the USA, so I owe my gratitude to the Universe for some extra reading time here in the USA and the genius of D.F. Wallace who explored the labyrinthine relationships between life, love, and addiction.

For the readers from other countries, I hope you will soon celebrate a holiday that will give you more time to read this novel.


John (johnred) | 364 comments Thanks to a bout of insomnia last night, I'm nearly done with Week 8...one more night of insomnia and I will be caught up :)


Linda | 1425 comments I finished with Week 9 last Friday - I was really caught up in the story lines, and then had to stop myself from reading into Week 10. But now that the thread is posted I need to find time to put my thoughts down - and baking pies and the rest of the cooking on the immediate horizon is not going to help, but I will fit it in at some point this week. I do remember thinking that this week had a couple of my favorite sections in the book so far.


Linda | 1425 comments OK, finally getting some time to post here.

We learn a bit more about Gately - his initial check-in to Ennet house and his privilege to drive Pat's expensive little sports car. It was during his drive to the distantly-located grocery store to gather eggs for a quiche (so Joelle did not have to eat Red #40 hot dogs...) that I became wrapped up in his drive and the descriptions of the various neighborhoods. But then it wasn't until I was fully wrapped up in the story of the Antitoi brothers that I had to flip back a page to reread how I had gotten to that story - oh yeah, Gately had been driving by when a piece of debris on the road was kicked up and ended up "blown spinning all the way to the storefront of one 'Antitoi Entertainent' on the street's east side, and hits, its waxed bottom making a clunk.......so that in a minute a burly bearded thoroughly Canadian figure.....appears out of the dim light in the shop's back room..........and looks around a bit, viz. for who knocked....". It's great writing when I become so wrapped up on the visualization that I don't even realize that I have transferred my attention from one character to an entirely new character so completely, and midway within a 3-page paragraph.

So....we learn about these Canadian Antitoi brothers - Lucien and Bertraund - and their seemingly unknown involvement in the Entertainment. It seems that they must have among their salvaged cartridges an actual Entertainment cartridge which the Wheelchair Assassins are after since they obtained a blank cartridge from a "flag-draped Shaw statue, stupidly anyone could take home" (suspicious the cartridges are there just for the taking...) on which is read "IL NE FAUT PLUS QU'ON PURSUIVE LE BONHEUR" - translated " It is no longer necessary to pursue happiness" and contains a circle and arc which "resembled a disembodied smile". And footnote 205 tells us that the only reason that Lucien thought this tape was blank was that he did not have the proper viewer.

Sorry I'm just recapping here. Anyway, I found the next events so very tense and spooky with the arrival of the Wheelchairs. Especially the buildup of the atmosphere such as how the shop had lots of disorienting mirrors - so that when the wheelchairs did come it was also disorienting to Lucien. Not only was this section tense and gruesome, I felt bad for Lucien, I think because we are shown his simple pleasures in life - his homemade broom and how he loved sweeping the shop. Lucien's discovery of his "one and only brother" dead in the back was sad, and then his slow grisly death as he has thoughts of his home and momma were so descriptive and poetic, however horrendous his death was:

and his gargled sounds now sound drowned; and behind fluttering lids the aphrasiac half-cellular insurgent who loves only to sweep and dance in a clean pane sees snow on the round hills of his native Gaspe, pretty curls of smoke from chimneys, his mother's linen apron, her kind red face above his crib, homemade skates and cider-steam.....

Definitely one of my favorite sections in the book.


Linda | 1425 comments Another of my favorite sections was in this week's section - the time when James O.I. was young back in 1963 and the squeaky mattress incident. Loved all the mundane descriptive details of the room and other things-

the daylight was very bright in the room, the decor of which was white and blue and powder-blue.

The lawn sloped at an average angle of 55 degrees and had to be mowed horizontally

I was worried worried that the residue along the iside sides of the tumbler would harden into the kind of precipitate that would be hard to wash off.

Laughed out loud at this dry humor by James, just after his father crudely says "Under what presidential administration was this room last deep-cleaned, I'm standing here prompted to f***ing muse out loud."...

I said to my father, 'You know, since we're discussing squeaking beds, my bed squeaks too.'..........'But I don't even think I even really noticed it until we began to discuss it,' I said. I looked at my mother. 'I don't even think it bothers me....actually, I think I kind of like it.....'

It was funny, but it seemed also an attempt to offer some protection to his mother, as she was not going to say anything in her defense. James' father was definitely verbally abusive in this scene.

Anyway, during this entire scene I was wondering what the point of this squeaking mattress and all the dust and everything else was in the grand scheme of things. I just seemed out of place. And then to see James jump on his bed and launch into mathematical equations because of a doorknob and hex bolt (what does THIS have to do with the mattress scene?!). And then finally the last sentence was perfect:

This was how I first became interested in the possibilities of annulation.

All that to come to that final sentence. And I'm assuming this annulation has something to do with the way the Entertainment fully engrosses people in their viewing.


Linda | 1425 comments And last but not least, we finally see the appearance of Poor Tony with the rest of the Ennet crew.

OK, another favorite scene - where Erdedy isn't "comfortable" with hugging and Roy Tony flips out, which ends in Erdedy having both arms around the guy's neck and was hugging him with such vigor Kate Gompert later told Joelle van Dyne it looked like Erdedy was trying to climb him.

Too funny! And it's nice to see Tony has bulked up since the last time we saw him in detox mode and losing so much weight, since now he is described as a "tall heavy Afro-American fellow with a gold incisor..."


Rosemary I thought Poor Tony and Roy Tony were two different characters!


Linda | 1425 comments Rosemary wrote: "I thought Poor Tony and Roy Tony were two different characters!"

funny, Rosemary!

Oh, and I'm not quite sure Tony is actually at Ennet House. He might have just been at the combined AA meeting so he interacted with the Ennet crew there.


message 9: by Rosemary (last edited Dec 02, 2014 10:05AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rosemary Catching up! I was interested to read about Don G.'s childhood in this section.

Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451.

I was confused about what "Nuck" meant, not being from the N. American continent. I thought Canuck = Canadian, but it was sometimes used more specifically in the book (e.g. re the Antitoi's store, we have "a couple Canadian and Nuck-owned stores" like they are two different things) so I looked it up and it can sometimes mean specifically French Canadian. And sometimes just Canadian. *sigh*

The Antitois and the description of Bertraund's death freaked me out. Some of the scenes in this book are real horror, to rival Bret Easton Ellis.

Why did the Association des Fauteuils Roulants have to kill the Antitois anyway? That seemed really sad. Weren't they fellow countrymen and presumably on the same side?

Sometimes the French intrigues me. For example, Antitoi might mean "anti you". And Marathe's English is like nothing any French person would say, like he is deliberately pretending not to know correct English. They would never say "want to mean" for "mean" .. they might conceivably say "want to say" which is the literal translation of "mean" from French "veut dire", but not "want to mean". It's like Marathe is making this big point of wanting to appear not fluent in English. It's really quite funny :-)


Linda | 1425 comments Rosemary wrote: "Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451."

Oh, I missed that important tidbit!

"a couple Canadian and Nuck-owned stores" like they are two different things) so I looked it up and it can sometimes mean specifically French Canadian. And sometimes just Canadian

I also missed the use of both Canadian terms. I didn't realize Nuck could mean French-Canadian specifically.

Sometimes the French intrigues me.

Rosemary, I don't remember my French well enough to pick out these subtleties, so it's interesting to have them pointed out. And my grandmother, who was French Canadian, sadly passed away before I began studying French in school. I always wished I had been able to learn from her, and to see the differences in the French dialects would have been interesting.


message 11: by John (last edited Dec 03, 2014 07:15AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (johnred) | 364 comments OK, I am only a few pages away from the end of this section, so I am going to go ahead an jump in here :)

Rosemary wrote: "I thought Poor Tony and Roy Tony were two different characters!"

Linda wrote: funny, Rosemary!


Wait, why is that funny? They ARE two different characters, aren't they? Um, maybe I shouldn't be joining the discussion yet after all, LOL...

Linda, I think one thing you missed in your assessment of the Antitoi Bros. scene was that the version of the tape they had was the master copy -- thus, it's the only copy that duplicates can be made from. Steeply and Marathe expanded on this in the next section when they discussed how the various govt. and terrorist factions have read-only copies, and that the Master Copy was taken from M. DuPlessis' house.

So I think we are to assume that the master copy was stolen by Don Gately, and then ended up with the Antitoi Brothers after Gately discarded it?

Marathe's English is like nothing any French person would say, like he is deliberately pretending not to know correct English.

I think this might be the case, because to me (little to no French language experience) Marathe sounds pretty believable. That's how I would imagine a native French speaker would sound...so perhaps Marathe is speaking in a way that he knows an English speaker would expect him to speak :)

I am currently almost done with the 1963 Squeaky-Mattress scene, so I will not delve any further until I finish up...In casting news, I am hiring John C. McGinley to play James' father in the flashback scenes.


message 12: by Linda (last edited Dec 03, 2014 08:21AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Linda | 1425 comments John wrote: "Wait, why is that funny? They ARE two different characters, aren't they? Um, maybe I shouldn't be joining the discussion yet after all, LOL..."

Oh wait, now do I have egg on my face?! Shoot, I guess I have been assuming Roy Tony and Poor Tony were the same person. I guess that's why I was surprised by Roy Tony's description at AA, thinking that I had not imagined him to look like that!!

I don't have my book with me at work today, so I will have to go back and investigate...


Linda | 1425 comments OK, so the Tony situation was bugging me so I had to look up a character list online. You guys are right, Rosemary and John - Poor Tony and Roy Tony are two different people. So ignore what I said previously about Poor Tony gaining weight! And now I guess his appearance doesn't surprise me. Sorry guys!


Linda | 1425 comments John wrote: "Linda, I think one thing you missed in your assessment of the Antitoi Bros. scene was that the version of the tape they had was the master copy -- thus, it's the only copy that duplicates can be made from."

Yes, I guess I did not catch that that was the case. Thanks John.


message 15: by Olga (new) - rated it 5 stars

Olga Linda wrote: "John wrote: "Wait, why is that funny? They ARE two different characters, aren't they? Um, maybe I shouldn't be joining the discussion yet after all, LOL..."

Oh wait, now do I have egg on my face?!..."


Roy Tony was also mentioned in the earlier Wardine section. He was lusting after Wardine, remember?


Linda | 1425 comments Olga wrote: "Roy Tony was also mentioned in the earlier Wardine section. He was lusting after Wardine, remember?"

Yeah, I do now. :) I had forgotten about him in that section - it seemed so long ago in the book and those characters have not really materialized again until now. So I had Poor Tony on the brain and confused the two names, thinking they were the same person.


message 17: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (johnred) | 364 comments Olga wrote: "Roy Tony was also mentioned in the earlier Wardine section. He was lusting after Wardine, remember? "

Actually I think Poor Tony himself Mentioned Roy Tony at one point -- he said something about how Roy Tony was one of the people who didn't like him, I think... and also said something about Roy Tony being a pimp? IIRC.

In any case I agree it's definitely confusing having two characters named "something Tony" :)


message 18: by Ami (last edited Jan 16, 2015 09:42PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Rosemary wrote: "Catching up! I was interested to read about Don G.'s childhood in this section.

Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451.

I was confused about what "Nuck" meant, not bein..."


Linda wrote: "OK, finally getting some time to post here.

We learn a bit more about Gately - his initial check-in to Ennet house and his privilege to drive Pat's expensive little sports car. It was during his..."

Antitoi Brothers

Loved this section too and I think I found my burly men. I wonder if the Antitoi Brothers are the burly extras whose blood sings full of retrograde amines (142)?

Yes, this massacre was abhorrent to say the least. Rosemary described it best ... it could rival a Brett Ellis scene! This episode brought me back to the exchange between Marathe and Steeply about the soup aux pois/Entertainment. The Entertainment now being in the hands of the AFR, I guess they wanted it more?

Time Frame for Entertainment...And the Master Copy?

April 1, YDAU Medical Attache finds padded mailer, postmarked Phoenix, AZ.
1927h settles in with tray and cartridge (36-7).

2010h Still watching (42)

April 2, YDAU
0200h Medical Attache soiled himself watching (54)

>0145h wife arrives to find attache in soiled conditions, non responsive (78-9)

Mid-Afternoon many people watching recursive loop in medical attache's living room (87)

April 30 YDAU

Marathe and Steeply discussing dissemination of the Entertainment referring to Attache (93)

May 1 YDAU

Predawn Still in NW Tucson, AZ Canadian neurologist "rivers of reward" p-terminals (470-71)

PreDawn Still in NW Tucson, AZ AFRs recovery of the alleged Master copy from the DuPlessis burglary, is in question (489). More than one copy has been found, but nobody knows what's on these "supposed" copies-Tine running tests (490)

Marathe Steeply Hank Hoyne Reference (508)

Pre-Dawn/Dawn Still in NW Tucson, AZ L'odalisque de Sainte Therese

1800h Don Gately Joy riding, cup ends up in the storefront of Antitoi Entertainment (480)

AFR soon enter Antitoi Entertainment

At this point the other copies are being tested by the U.S.S.with some casualties? But the AFR do have main copy? If anybody wants to help me fill in a time frame for the entertainment and it's confiscations, I would appreciate it...At least up until this point. Thanks.


Linda | 1425 comments Ami wrote: "Loved this section too and I think I found my burly men. I wonder if the Antitoi Brothers are the burly extras whose blood sings full of retrograde amines (142)?"

Ah! I almost forgot about your burly men, Ami! I wonder if these are the same guys.

I think I missed what happened to the copy in the Attache's house, if the copy in the Antitoi's was a master copy. I was under the impression there was more than one copy?

I didn't think the copy that the medical attache watched was the master copy (it was a read-only copy), and I don't think we were told what happened to that one. I think there are a few (perhaps?) copies of Entertainment, but only one master copy that is able to be copied into additional copies.


message 20: by Ami (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "Loved this section too and I think I found my burly men. I wonder if the Antitoi Brothers are the burly extras whose blood sings full of retrograde amines (142)?"

Ah! I almost forgot ..."


Oops, i think I was editing while you were posting, but yes the attache was watching a copy...

I wonder if the master copy is the one at the Antitoi's, then how did it get into the hand of DuPlessis, in the first place? Also, DuPlessis is anti ONAN, and an A.F.R. sympathizer?

HA! My burly men...yes, there is the DMZ connection to Pemulis...So maybe?


Linda | 1425 comments Ami wrote: "Also, DuPlessis is anti ONAN, and an A.F.R. sympathizer?"

I don't think I know anything about DuPlessis. Maybe someone else has picked up clues about what this guy is all about?


Linda | 1425 comments Ami wrote: "At this point the other copies are being tested by the U.S.S.with some casualties? But the AFR do have main copy? If anybody wants to help me fill in a time frame for the entertainment and it's confiscations, I would appreciate it"

I didn't take detailed notes of the entertainment time frame. But I don't think we know at this point where the master copy is.

And now that you mention the U.S.S. testing, I vaguely remember this part. And now I'm confused, so I'll have to go back and review this section.


message 23: by Ami (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "At this point the other copies are being tested by the U.S.S.with some casualties? But the AFR do have main copy? If anybody wants to help me fill in a time frame for the entertainment ..."

I'm sorry LOL! I read the previous comments and master copy was thrown around, but I couldn't wrap my head around it, so I put together my skeletal time frame...It didn't help, as I need to add more to it. I'm missing information on this copy at the Antitois being the master copy.

Okay, here's something...The Incandenza family has a sordid liaison with the pan-Canadian Resistance's notorious M. Duplessis and his operative, Luria P____ (30)...

And here...Rodney Tine, Sr.,Chief of Unspecified Services, acknowledged architect of O.N.A.N and continental Reconfiguration...whose stenographer had long doubled as the stenographer of M. DuPlessis-one Luria Perec (92).

So the ties that bind are Avril and Luria Perec. Luria Perec, it seems, had relations with both Tine and DuPlessis...Tine could have been a double, or triple agent (92) Reread this section.


message 24: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (johnred) | 364 comments Ami wrote: "My burly men...yes, there is the DMZ connection to Pemulis...So maybe? "

Oh, were the Antitois the ones who sold the DMZ to Pemulis? I do remember that they were French Canadians I think. Good catch!

Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "Also, DuPlessis is anti ONAN, and an A.F.R. sympathizer?"

I don't think I know anything about DuPlessis. Maybe someone else has picked up clues about what this guy is all about?"


I got the impression that DuPlessis was a top guy in Separatist circles. After reading this section, my theory is that he had the master, it was stolen by Gately and ended up with the Antitois...that's just speculation though...


message 25: by Ami (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami John wrote: "Ami wrote: "My burly men...yes, there is the DMZ connection to Pemulis...So maybe? "

Oh, were the Antitois the ones who sold the DMZ to Pemulis? I do remember that they were French Canadians I thi..."


Yes, I believe so, and Bertrand Antitoi agreed to barter with a long-haired old person in a paisley Nehru jacket, wearing also small round wire spectacles with salmon-colored lenses, a blue lava lamp and antique apothacary's mirror for eighteen unexceptional looking losanges (481).


message 26: by Ami (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Rosemary wrote: "Catching up! I was interested to read about Don G.'s childhood in this section.

Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451.

I was confused about what "Nuck" meant, not bein..."


Linda wrote: "Another of my favorite sections was in this week's section - the time when James O.I. was young back in 1963 and the squeaky mattress incident. Loved all the mundane descriptive details of the roo..."

I said to my father, 'You know, since we're discussing squeaking beds, my bed squeaks too.'..........'But I don't even think I even really noticed it until we began to discuss it,' I said. I looked at my mother. 'I don't even think it bothers me....actually, I think I kind of like it.....'

This was funny and I didn't think he was placating his father while defending his mother until I read your response. I sensed a lot of distance between the three in the room.

Young James so confused as to where to put his Dad's empty glass...Do you think this was Jim trying to avoid any reprimand from his father?

The separation between husband and wife...Mario Sr. is ranting about the bed squeaking, but Jim remarked that he didn't think he'd ever once heard their bed squeak before, from upstairs (499)-didn't seem to be a lot of warmth emitted from the bed.

what does THIS have to do with the mattress scene?!

I think it was to show the analytical/ambivalent nature between father and son?

Marathe's English

It's interesting you bring this up because when I think of Marathe english, it reminds me of Steeply saying his Quebecois French was better than Marathe's English. Now I too am wondering if this is part of Marathe's ploy...Faking English-speak?

Why did the Association des Fauteuils Roulants have to kill the Antitois anyway? Weren't they fellow countrymen and presumably on the same side

They are are an extreme terrorist group, the AFR. The Antitoi Bros., once or twice doing work of affiliation with the Separatist/Anti-ONAN FLQ were more or less loners (480). They were under the protection of DuPlessis, but after his assassination, spurned by the FLQ and also ridiculed by the more malignant anti-ONAN cells (480).


message 27: by Ami (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Hal....Recurring Dream

In his dream, his teeth are fragmenting in his mouth as he chews (449). A dream like this is attributed to a sense of "powerlessness and insecurity," according to dream analysis (I googled it)-Hal seems to be under some major stress studying for the College Boards (449).

On page 460, it's said Hal has an almost obsessive dislike for keLint, whom he tells Mario he sometimes cannot quite believe is even real.... I wonder why, nothing comes to mind for me, anybody else?

Mario's Agitation FN 180

Schtitt, the Moms and Hal have all noticed a change in Mario's demeanor...He's agitated (450). However, it's not until he realizes Madam Psychosis sat behind an onion skin screen that he became agitated...I didn't understand why?


message 28: by Ami (last edited Jan 17, 2015 09:49AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ami Gately and AA

As of pages 468-469, Gately no longer contemplates who, or what, he's dropping to his knees (to pray, or ask for relief) for in the morning and evening because Pat Montesian had said it didn't matter at this point what he thought or believed or even said...All that mattered was what he 'did...' If he did the right things, and kept doing them for long enough (466). If Gately is just going through the motions, not really believing in anything, what has he surrendered to...His fear of using again? I guess AA isn't really that hokey after all, it's about creating good habits, more than anything...Swapping one addiction for another. This is such an interesting concept and I'm thoroughly enthralled with this aspect of the novel.

I'm happy for Gately and his sobriety, in fact, it was so touching to read about how he was brought to tears when gifted with a faultlessly baked and heavily frosted one-candle cake-this was a great moment in the novel-Some light at the end of the tunnel (468). I would hope there would be more of these instances to follow, but who am I kidding? LOL!


Nicola | 522 comments Linda wrote: "Olga wrote: "Roy Tony was also mentioned in the earlier Wardine section. He was lusting after Wardine, remember?"

Yeah, I do now. :) I had forgotten about him in that section - it seemed so long..."


Is he the guy with the snake obsession? Or was that someone else?


message 30: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (johnred) | 364 comments Nicola wrote: "Is he the guy with the snake obsession? Or was that someone else? "

I think you're referring to Tommy Doocey, the hare-lipped drug dealer from Allston who lived with Bruce Green and kept snakes in his trailer.


Nicola | 522 comments John wrote: "Nicola wrote: "Is he the guy with the snake obsession? Or was that someone else? "

I think you're referring to Tommy Doocey, the hare-lipped drug dealer from Allston who lived with Bruce Green and..."


That's the puppy. Thanks John (again!)


message 32: by Nicola (last edited Jan 19, 2015 09:31PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nicola | 522 comments No questions for this section so I'll just jump on in. More references to John Wayne with 'a cold smile' - I know you like him Ami but I swear DFW doesn't! Or isn't trying to make him likeable anyway. Mind you it could be a reflection of the temperature - those guys really have it rough, that school seems like a torture camp at times.

The scene with the Wheelchair Assassins I found absolutely horrific. Up until now I'd viewed them as rather a joke but their brutal murders were distinctly unfunny. I'm also puzzled as to why they had to happen. Even leaving aside the fact that 'aren't they on the same side?' why did they have to be killed in such a torturous way? Those 'demappings' were the sorts of things that you'd do (well, not YOU you!) to people you hated and wanted to suffer. If you felt you needed to eliminate someone why didn't they just painlessly shoot them with a silencer? I found that very disturbing and really quite sad. They seemed mostly endearing in the short time we had to know them.

I noted that right after the killings it jumped back to Marathe who I will say I looked at in a very different light...

Then we have another disturbing scene with the young Jim and his father trying to build up his C.V. for the 'worst father of the year' awards. He's got a way to go but I think he's got the mental intimidation down pretty pat. Poor young Jim trying to distract his father but talking about his own bed squeaking, good on you for trying to protect your mother my boy. No wonder you grew up with all of the social problems you did. I still don't know why you put your head in the oven though. Something to do with Avril seems likely but I don't really have a solid theory yet.

I'm not sure if it's relevant or not but I equated the squeak of the mattress with the squeak of the wheelchairs 'beware the squeak'.


Nicola | 522 comments Linda wrote:. Not only was this section tense and gruesome, I felt bad for Lucien, I think because we are shown his simple pleasures in life - his homemade broom and how he loved sweeping the shop. Lucien's discovery of his "one and only brother" dead in the back was sad, and then his slow grisly death as he has thoughts of his home and momma were so descriptive and poetic, however horrendous his death was: "

Yes i thought it was really quite sad too. A testament to DFW's writing skills that I felt so attached to a guy I'd only known for a couple of pages.


Nicola | 522 comments Linda wrote: "Rosemary wrote: Rosemary wrote: "Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451."

Oh, I missed that important tidbit!


I'm still missing it - what specific phrase leads you to that conclusion? I've read around my page 451 and nothing is leaping out at me.


Nicola | 522 comments Olga wrote: Roy Tony was also mentioned in the earlier Wardine section. He was lusting after Wardine, remember? "

I recognised the name but I don't remember anything at all about the guy. I'll have to flick back and see if I can find it again.


Nicola | 522 comments Ami wrote:
Loved this section too and I think I found my burly men. I wonder if the Antitoi Brothers are the burly extras whose blood sings full of retrograde amines (142)? "


I don't think they were specific people, not in that scene anyway. They seem more to be an abstract idea or a representation.


message 37: by Nicola (last edited Jan 19, 2015 09:46PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nicola | 522 comments Ami wrote: "Rosemary wrote: "Catching up! I was interested to read about Don G.'s childhood in this section.

Sounds like C.Tavis is aware he might be Mario's father - p.451.

I was confused about what "Nuck..."


My question is how/why are those copies turning up. They aren't the work of the terrorists as they don't have the Master copy so where are they coming from? Do they perhaps have a few read only's but if so why on earth pick the targets that they did?

Or did they actually have the Master copy before it was stolen? Argh - I'm sure I haven't paid close enough attention!


Nicola | 522 comments John wrote: "Ami wrote: Ami wrote: "My burly men...yes, there is the DMZ connection to Pemulis...So maybe? "

Oh, were the Antitois the ones who sold the DMZ to Pemulis? I do remember that they were French Canadians I think. Good catch!"


Yes, I'm pretty sure that that is the implication given in the text...


Nicola | 522 comments Ami wrote: " Hal....Recurring Dream

In his dream, his teeth are fragmenting in his mouth as he chews (449). A dream like this is attributed to a sense of "powerlessness and insecurity," according to dream analysis."


Well that would make total sense. And ties in with his ostensible reason for taking drugs - doing something which isn't controlled.


Nicola | 522 comments Ami wrote: Schtitt, the Moms and Hal have all noticed a change in Mario's demeanor...He's agitated (450). However, it's not until he realizes Madam Psychosis sat behind an onion skin screen that he became agitated...I didn't understand why? ."

I thought that was odd too. No idea as to why that would upset him so much. There is the concept of using a screen to hide - maybe Mario viewed her as being completely open and honest and the screen implied something contrary to that. Totally grasping at straws here!


message 41: by Linda (last edited Jan 20, 2015 12:51PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Linda | 1425 comments Nicola wrote: "A testament to DFW's writing skills that I felt so attached to a guy I'd only known for a couple of pages."

You're right. I wondered why I felt so bad for the guy, given that I was only just introduced to him. But you put it perfectly, that it was DFW's writing that was able to make me feel for a character so quickly.


Linda | 1425 comments Ami wrote: "I'm happy for Gately and his sobriety, in fact, it was so touching to read about how he was brought to tears when gifted with a faultlessly baked and heavily frosted one-candle cake-this was a great moment in the novel-Some light at the end of the tunnel (468)."

I also loved how he was so sensitive about getting his one year cake. :)


Nicola | 522 comments Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: I also loved how he was so sensitive about getting his one year cake. :) "

Yes, that was a lovely moment.


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