Play Book Tag discussion
2020 Activities and Challenges
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Announcing the 2020 PBT Challenges!
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LiteraryMania wrote: "Nicole R wrote: "For this challenge, the book you read must be tagged with the exact tag that is on the list!."Okay... so here is an oddball question. Does this still apply in cases where so few ..."
It's not an oddball question - - it's a good question!
However, the answer below is probably not the answer you are hoping to get.
So, I'm sorry, but a situation like this doesn't work for us as administrators. In general, we aren't going to consider exceptions because we don't have the expertise to analyze whether this book fits the tag (without reading it). Is Tlingit the same as Inuit? I really don't know, but I also don't want to try have to try to have to know.
The books really need to be tagged by non-players with the tag you are reading for. . .that's the entire point of the game in so many respects.
The only exception we might consider is a book just released in 2020 that literally has the word in the title. i.e. If the book title was "The Life and Times of the Inuit" and it was just published. It needs to be so blatant that we don't even need to read the description of the book. If that case arises, people should private message us . . .
We have our hands full as it is checking that books fit the tag, updating the score sheet, etc. We don't want people asking us about all the exceptions to the rules when there are thousands of books that can be read for this challenge without an issue.
Anita wrote: "LiteraryMania wrote: "Nicole R wrote: "For this challenge, the book you read must be tagged with the exact tag that is on the list!."Okay... so here is an oddball question. Does this still apply ..."
No worries. I kinda figured this might be the case. I just thought I'd check. I was just looking for motivation to get around to the intimidating academic text that has been sitting on my shelf for years. lol I have other, less intimidating options.
Honestly though, as an Alaskan... I kind raised my eyebrow at the Inuit tag. 'Cause you're talking about a very narrow range if you're talking about the US. It's a specific ethnic group and language branch, not a blanket term for all Alaskan/Canadian Native Americans, even though it's been used that way.
So if we're going by the general blanket term Tinglut fits. If we're going for accuracy, technically it doesn't, but neither does most of the things tagged on GR as Inuit.
You're talking about less than 100,000 people, if you only count Alaskan Inuits. Which kinda makes it an undoable tag, that gets more realistic when you include Canada and Greenland. lol
Which is not trying to make an argument to change your mind. You DEFINITELY don't have time to be scrambling around trying to figure out those kinds of distinctions! I'm just cursed with too much knowledge on the subject which is making my brain do all sorts of somersaults about what qualifies. I'm overthinking it.
Just kinda a general PSA for anyone who might visit one day: quite a few Northern Alaskan tribes are Inuit, but many other tribes would be offended to be called that.
I appreciate hearing an Alaskan perspective!!! Honestly, we did want some narrower tags in there, and so long as the book has the tag (and no player added it), it is fine to read. However, I appreciate learning these things!!!
But it also highlights exactly why I don't want to have to be the arbiter . . .definitely not qualified!!!
Anita wrote: "I appreciate hearing an Alaskan perspective!!! Honestly, we did want some narrower tags in there, and so long as the book has the tag (and no player added it), it is fine to read. However, I appr..."
Haha! Yeah, definitely the call I would make too. Especially because you could go even deeper and talk about the tribes that have been technically classified that way, that don't agree with the classification, but... politics.
It's a freaking headache. Glad I wasn't being too annoying. :-D
Which leads me to the follow up questions - I'm seeing quite a few books that were tagged as Inuit by only one person, that would be valid if it's not a PBT member?
I'm assuming that tags that include "Inuit" but aren't just "Inuit" wouldn't count? Seems like again - you'd have a lot more work tracking those.
Like the tag "canadian-inuit" that I've seen a couple times, I'd assume wouldn't count?
LiteraryMania wrote: "Which leads me to the follow up questions - I'm seeing quite a few books that were tagged as Inuit by only one person, that would be valid if it's not a PBT member?It can be tagged by a PBT member, just not by a PBT member playing the game!
I'm assuming that tags that include "Inuit" but aren't just "Inuit" wouldn't count? Seems like again - you'd have a lot more work tracking those.
Like the tag "canadian-inuit" that I've seen a couple times, I'd assume wouldn't count?"
Thank is correct. It must be just "inuit"
Nicole R wrote: "As always with our challenges, picture books are not allowed. There is also a 150 page minimum, which eliminates short shorties and novellas unless they are bound in a longer anthology. ..."Hi, Nicole. I'm not sure if this has come up already, and if the answer is already post somewhere, but I wanted to check on the 150 page minimum.
Where is that 150 pages coming from? If there is a book right around that minimum, but some editions have fewer and some have more, what is the definitive edition we are basing this on?
Thanks!
LibraryCin wrote: "Hi, Nicole. I'm not sure if this has come up already, and if the answer is already post somewhere, but I wanted to check on the 150 page minimum.Where is that 150 pages coming from? If there is a book right around that minimum, but some editions have fewer and some have more, what is the definitive edition we are basing this on?
Thanks!"
For this one, go with the edition that you are actually reading!
Except for large print, large print editions don't count.
LiteraryMania wrote: "Honestly though, as an Alaskan... I kind raised my eyebrow at the Inuit tag. 'Cause you're talking about a very narrow range.."Well ... Wisconsin's tag is "cheese" and that tag list is mostly filled with "cheesy" romances. Raises my blood pressure just thinking about it. But it is what it is....
Nicole R wrote: "For this one, go with the edition that you are actually reading! ..."Thank you!
Anita wrote: "LiteraryMania wrote: "Nicole R wrote: "For this challenge, the book you read must be tagged with the exact tag that is on the list!."Okay... so here is an oddball question. Does this still apply ..."
FYI ONLY and not related to deciding what works :)
The Tlingit nation is in both Alaska and in Canada. In Canada, the Tlingit fall within First Nations which means they are not Inuit. They do have some ties with the Haida nation but are not the same. For those unfamiliar with Canadianisms, indigenous peoples fall into three main categories, Inuit, Métis and First Nations.
Karin wrote: "The Tlingit nation is in both Alaska and in Canada. In Canada, the Tlingit fall within First Nations which means they are not Inuit. ..."Thanks, Karin! This is what I thought!
Just stopped by to look at PBT challenges. As always you guys are awesomely creative!
Thank you so much, Kristel! So great to see you!!
Anita wrote: "Thank you so much, Kristel! So great to see you!!"Thanks, I wish I could be more active here but I just can't find the time. Miss everyone tho
Totally understand but still enjoy a visit now and again!!!
Anita and Nicole, I have a question about Poll Ballot Tally.I've read a new book that just came out, and I thought it had a tag I could use but turns out not. But there is a chance someone might tag it later in a way I can use it, so can I wait until then to post it for the game?
If so, do I have to wait till then to post it to the tag of the month or Other reads? If I post it now for Other in March, does that invalidate it for using in Poll Ballot Tally later in the year if it gains a tag I can use?
annapi wrote: "Anita and Nicole, I have a question about Poll Ballot Tally.I've read a new book that just came out, and I thought it had a tag I could use but turns out not. But there is a chance someone might ..."
I feel like Nicole is more of the leader on this one than I am, but pretty sure you are supposed to ensure the book is properly tagged first before opting to read it for the game.
But Nicole and I don't always see eye to eye on these things, so I will let her respond.
Anita and i are the same page! The book should be tagged how you want to use it when you read it.
Hi, Nicole and Anita. Question about the Bingo:I just finished one I thought would be ok for 2009. Thing is, it is a newer edition with a new foreword (foreword is dated Feb 2009), and this edition was published in 2009.
When you look at the GR page, it says it was first published in 1997 (and the original edition would have been), and you have to check the Editions page to see the one published in 2009.
I'm guessing it's a no on this one, but I wanted to check. Thanks.
Hi Cindy, unfortunately that would be the original 1997 publication date. Unless it added material other than just a foreword—was there new chapters or anything like that added? If there was new substantive material added to the story, then it can count for 2009! If it is just a foreword, then the original 1997 pub date still applies.
Probably not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope you enjoyed the book at least!!
Ok, thanks, Nicole. I think the only addition was the foreword. I'll find something else.
Usually when a non-fiction book (or textbook) adds something new, they call it a second edition. I would think that a second (or 3rd, etc) edition would count with the new date.
NancyJ wrote: "Usually when a non-fiction book (or textbook) adds something new, they call it a second edition. I would think that a second (or 3rd, etc) edition would count with the new date."If someone actually wants to read a textbook/educational book with a new edition date then we will cross that bridge. We don't get many of those read and reported here, but if someone really wants to read one for BINGO then drop me a personal message!
Nicole R wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Usually when a non-fiction book (or textbook) adds something new, they call it a second edition. I would think that a second (or 3rd, etc) edition would count with the new date."If..."
I think there might be some non-fiction books (not textbooks) with new editions/updates on the business or industry tag list. Nothing on my tbr though.
Sounds good, Nancy! I have had a few questions over the months about new editions, republish dates, etc. We always work them out pretty quickly, so if you have an issue arise, I am sure we can figure out the best date to use.And, just to reiterate for everyone . . .
If anyone has a book that they actually would like/plan to read and have a question about the date if it happens to be a new edition, then you can PM me any time! Or if you have any questions about the publication date regardless of the reason why, go ahead and drop me a PM! We can definitely work it out.
I do just request that when you reach out to me with a question, it is about a book you are serious about reading. I prefer to address potential issues on a case-by-case basis than deal in hypotheticals that may never come to pass.
QUESTION re Bingo "Free" space ..... do we have to read a book for that space? (Obviously any book, since the publication year doesn't matter.)
Book Concierge wrote: "QUESTION re Bingo "Free" space ..... do we have to read a book for that space? (Obviously any book, since the publication year doesn't matter.)"No BC- it is a freebie
Book Concierge wrote: "QUESTION re Bingo "Free" space ..... do we have to read a book for that space? (Obviously any book, since the publication year doesn't matter.)"Joanne is correct -- no book needed! It is totally a freebie and just count it as having already crossed it off!
Thanks for clarifying (In another group's BINGO challenge the "free" space still requires that you read a book ... just any book ... so I wanted to be sure.)
Sorry if this has already been asked. What is your policy about books that don't show a page number on goodreads? Audible has several Audible Original books that I'd like to read, but as far as I can tell, they're only available as audios, not print books.Here are two examples. They're both nearly 4 hours long which is a typical length of a 200 page book.
The Queen:Aretha Franklin by Gilmore (3 hours, 48 minutes).
https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...
https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Queen-...
Thicker than Water by Tyler Schultz is a story by a whistleblower in the Theranos case (3 hours 37 minutes). It doesn't even have a goodreads entry yet, so I would assume that it wouldn't count (yet?).
https://www.audible.com/pd/Thicker-th...
Let me get back to you on this. We have never had an exact policy, so I want to run it by the admins and see what they say.Most estimates I have seen is that an audiobook is roughly 30-40 pages per hour, but it is so hard to estimate because of reading speed and differences in publishing.
Stay tuned....
NancyJ wrote: "Sorry if this has already been asked. What is your policy about books that don't show a page number on goodreads? Audible has several Audible Original books that I'd like to read, but as far as I c..."Hi Nancy (and others who have been waiting for this answer), the admins have talked about it behind the scenes and here is the policy we have developed for audiobooks.
First and foremost, if your audiobook has an actual print book associated with it, then the page length of the original format book will be the page length we look to for games and challenges. We're not going to get too hung up on it, so if it is, for example, an older classic like Pride and Prejudice then a popular reprint may also be acceptable. We will cross that bridge when and if we come to it.
The second part of the rule only comes into play when there is not a print counterpart to the audiobook, like the audiobooks that Nancy mentioned. In those cases, then we will consider books to be read at 35 pages an hour.
So, that means to satisfy the 150 page minimum requirement for the challenges, an audiobook must be a minimum of 4h 15min.
Let me know if you have any questions!
Nicole R wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Sorry if this has already been asked. What is your policy about books that don't show a page number on goodreads? Audible has several Audible Original books that I'd like to read, bu..."Thanks Nicole! That sounds fine. Audible just opened up all of their Audible Originals for streaming for all members, so there will be many more choices there.
I couldn't find any estimates like that. I often compare page numbers and minutes to get an idea of how long a book might really take me. They vary widely. Can you provide a link or reference to the estimates you found?
I didn’t save the exact links I looked at, but if you do a basic google search, it pops up lots of estimates of 30-40 pages per hour. Then, to verify the accuracy of that, I calculated the average pages/hour of all the audiobooks I listened to last year and this year to date and got an average of 33 pages per hour. The admins rounded that up to 35 to give PBTers an extra boost.
Here is one link I know I looked at: https://www.quora.com/How-many-pages-...I also looked at a Reddit thread and a GR discussion on it.
Thanks, Nicole, this sounds like a good policy. I have never checked them by hours, only by CD number and of course they are different lengths. This sounds like a great compromise.
Print books have a huge variance in pages per hour, in my opinion. Some have tons of white space and big print, not to mention graphic novels or others with lots of illustrations. Some are very dense in both print and subject matter. So we're always compromising in a way when we go by number of pages. If anything, audio is probably more consistent.
Thanks Nicole.One more question. Do Cookbooks count? Probably not, but I just saw a Memory Diet Cookbook that I might try.
Robin P wrote: "Print books have a huge variance in pages per hour, in my opinion. Some have tons of white space and big print, not to mention graphic novels or others with lots of illustrations. Some are very den..."True! However, I have noticed not all books are read at the same pace, some being read more slowly, or at least one with varying pace depending on how exciting the action is, etc.
NancyJ wrote: "Thanks Nicole.One more question. Do Cookbooks count? Probably not, but I just saw a Memory Diet Cookbook that I might try."
No, cookbooks do not count. But it sounds like an interesting cookbook to look into!
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
Tlingit Indians: Results of a Trip to the Northwest Coast of America and the Bering Straits (other topics)Never Turn Your Back on an Angus Cow: My Life As a Country Vet (other topics)
Never Turn Your Back on an Angus Cow: My Life As a Country Vet (other topics)
Jane Eyre (other topics)
Okay... so here is an oddball question. Does this still apply in cases where so few people have read the book that it doesn't have a single goodreads tag? Is that book automatically disqualified?
'Cause I just got excited about getting into The Tlingit Indians: Results of a Trip to the Northwest Coast of America and the Bering Straits but it's a lengthy anthropological report written in the early 1880's and updated by an anthropology professor at the University of Anchorage in the mid 1950's. It's now been out of print since the 1970's but it's one of the most detailed early accounts, since the geographer who wrote it lived with the Tlingit for six months.
So obviously it's not going to have wide appeal, which is why it doesn't have tags... but it would fit the Inuit tag, if it had enough people rating it to have any tag at all...