He Knew He Was Right - Ch 53-60

[Frances, Moderator]

We see the ongoing decline of Trevelyan, who now is visibly diminished and changed to match his internal disturbance. Do you think Emily could have met him in any other way? Is she contributing to the problem, or is she keeping herself safe from a mad husband?

Dorothy tells Aunt Stanbury that Brooke has proposed to her, and Aunt Stanbury forbids the engagement, resulting in Dorothy's removal from the house. Was that what you expected from Aunt Stanbury? Was Dorothy right to leave? What do you make of the sending of Brooke's letter to Dorothy's mother?

Mr Glascock continues to struggle with his possible beloved's American family, however he tires to make Caroline Spalding understand his feelings, and she appears to rebuff him firmly. Why do you think she does this? We have seen a history of young women rebuffing firmly those suitors they appear to want to catch-Lady Mabel in The Duke's Children and Sophia Furnival in Orley Farm for recent examples. I struggle with all the young women who seem unwilling to give their preferred lover even a hint that they might reciprocate their feelings.

I find I am struggling with the side plots that don't engage me much-Mr Glascock and the Gibson/French storylines-and wonder how others feel? Are these helpful to the main storyline and/or to what Trollope is trying to convey, or is this padding (possibly if he was being paid by the word).

[Lori, Moderator]

I did find the Glascock-Spalding plot interesting. She reminds me more of Isabel Boncassen than Mabel. Mabel was confident in her ability to fulfill the role of Duchess of Omnium; Isabel was not. Likewise, Caroline Spalding, who has never met any of Mr. Glascock's friends or family members, worries (especially under the influence of Miss Petrie) that she won't be accepted among them, that people will talk about her and say that he has made a mistake.

I was confused as to why Miss Stanbury opposed the match (I've read on and understand now, but I initially found it confusing). With her disdain for "fashionable women," surely she'd rather see Brooke with someone like Dorothy, and I doubt she'd object on the grounds of Dorothy being from a poor background. It's not like Brooke is a lord.

I don't care too much what happens in the Gibson plot, but it's comic relief.

Sir Marmaduke is on his way back, and I wonder whether he will make the Trevelyan situation better or worse.

[Emma]

Athough I find the Spalding sisters attractive characters, some of these passages with Mr Glascock and the Americans are palling on me. This is mainly because Mr Spalding and Miss Petrie are both, in their different ways, lecturing bores. I wonder if Trollope didn't care for Americans? To have one bore in a group is fine, but to have two feels like prejudice. I also find it difficult to get involved in this love affair because Mr Glascock, while a perfectly decent man, seems to be without passion.

Back in England, Miss Stanbury's instant opposition to Dorothy's attachment is consistent with her character. She has very fixed ideas about how things ought to be, and if they don't turn out according to her expectations, reacts badly. But there are already signs that she may adjust her expectations. In her letter to Dorothy, her affection for her niece, and her loneliness without her, are clear. Although she insists on upholding her rights, I think she is (unlike Trevelyan) capable of changing her mind about what those rights actually are.

[Trev]

Will any of the numerous sub plots have any direct influence on the outcome of the main plot of the novel? If they are only there as side issues, comic interludes or distractions then it makes the novel rather disjointed. There were a number of sub plots in ‘Orley Farm’ but they did have some bearing on the main storyline.

I wonder if Miss Petrie (mixed with some of the charms of the Spalding girls) is based on the American journalist Kate Field that Trollope met in Florence in 1860 and admired so much that there were rumours of a love affair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Field

Regarding Louis and Emily, they have both declined in health but Louis much more so. Trollope says that there is now no love left in Emily for her husband and it is true that he has treated her disgracefully, robbing her of respect for him. However he is now no longer capable of rational thought or action and needs to be pitied for the terrible state he has brought himself to. Did Hugh, his supposed friend, abandon him too easily? He has probably gone beyond the point when reasonable discussion would help. He has been left to decline and become fixated on the fact that his wife has wronged him. I don’t think Hugh, or the other so called friends, have tried hard enough and Bozzle is continuing to feed his frenzy.

[Dan]

From the very beginning Louis refused to listen to anyone. One of the mistakes Trollope made with this characters is never showing him being friendly with a friend, loving with a wife, or any normal action with any one.

Some think this is a great portrait of a man “going crazy”. I think it might have been better if he had started out sane for a few minutes. There is a good deal of description of Louis’ decline, but I find myself getting more bored than involved.

Still, this is fine stuff - all the sub-plots reflect off of the others. The more you skim over the Louis stuff the more enjoyable the book is.

[Emma]

Dan wrote: "One of the mistakes Trollope made with this characters is never showing him being friendly with a friend, loving with a wife..."

Yes, we only see him once his jealousy has already started to set in, so we have very little idea of what his normal life was like before that. This may be the reason why Trollope himself was dissatisfied with the character: according the the Trollope society website (https://trollopesociety.org/ ) he wrote:

"I do not know that in any literary effort I ever fell more completely short of my own intention than in this story.... I look upon the story as being nearly altogether bad."

I don't think it's altogether bad, but the main plot involving Louis doesn't really develop - it just consists of his slow deterioration, and as Trev pointed out, doesn't intertwine very much with the more entertaining sub-plots.

[Trev]

Emma wrote: "Dan wrote: "One of the mistakes Trollope made with this characters is never showing him being friendly with a friend, loving with a wife..."

Yes, we only see him once his jealousy has already star..."

I think Trollope was both brave and bold in trying to portray the struggles of an insanely jealous person. From the quote it seems that he felt that he did not really succeed. Not everyone experiences or understands the emotion of jealousy so any empathy with Louis will vary accordingly. Probably the most famous song about jealousy, written by John Lennon, contains at least two powerful lines that could be attributed to Louis in his present state of mind - ‘I began to lose control’ and ‘I was shivering inside.’

I agree with both Dan and Emma that, despite the length of the novel, it would have been worthwhile reading about the loving relationship during the first two years of Emily and Louis’ marriage, the birth of their child and the times they enjoyed together. The first words that Emily speaks in the novel are aggressively defensive.

Chapter 1
“If I am suspected," said Mrs. Trevelyan to her sister one morning, as they sat together in the little back drawing-room, "life will not be worth having.".......................
“It was a great deal too horrible to be spoken, I know. If he does not beg my pardon, I shall,—I shall continue to live with him, of course, as a sort of upper servant, because of baby. But he shall know what I think and feel."

At this time Louis, albeit with an angry look in his eye, has simply asked Emily that Osborne should visit her less often, but already Emily has twisted his words and she continues to do this throughout the novel. This ongoing mutual misunderstanding feeds Louis’ jealousy and is the basis on which Trollope endeavours to describe Louis’ decline.

[Frances, Moderator]

Trev wrote: "At this time Louis, albeit with an angry look in his eye, has simply asked Emily that Osborne should visit her less often, but already Emily has twisted his words and she continues to do this throughout the novel. This ongoing mutual misunderstanding feeds Louis’ jealousy and is the basis on which Trollope endeavours to describe Louis’ decline."

Yes, I agree that initially Trevelyan's requests would likely have been reasonable for the time, and there is no doubt that Emily's reaction inflamed his anger and then a vicious cycle was set off. Would Trevelyan have reached the point he is now if Emily had agreed with his request, or would he have found other causes for jealously and mistrust?

[Lori, Moderator]

Yes, and this is where I wonder what happened before that. I agree with everyone here in that it would have been useful to have a few scenes before. I had the idea that this wasn't the first time Louis had made a request that Emily had thought to be unreasonable or insulting for some reason.

I agree that if Emily had complied, this crisis would have been averted. But Louis would have found other causes for jealousy and mistrust later, or he would have found other ways to "let her know who's boss." There may never have been a crisis like the one that happened, but the marriage would not have been a smooth one. Or maybe it would have, once they BOTH learned proper communication and compromise.