Gabaldon, Diana- Dragonfly in Amber (Outlander #2); Informal Buddy Read: Starting Dec 2014/Jan 2015

[Shannon]

Finished.

[Rebecca]

Ooookay the scene in chapter 23 (view spoiler)[ when the hangman is describing his work. Gross. Definitely not necessary to the story and I wish I had skipped over it. Ugh (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

Part 4:

(view spoiler)[ I like the plan to get the wine from Prince Charles and though I have a feeling something will go wrong, I think it's their only play.

I'm not very surprised that Jamie found an opportunity to duel Randall and kill him whenever he could. I can't imagine him walking around knowing he's alive and close by for a whole year.

I also had a feeling that Claire would lose this baby. We know she returns to her time pregnant and the longer her pregnancy at this time, the more I felt that this baby is not Brianna. It seems like a lot will happen before she returns and not enough time left in her pregnancy for it all to happen. However, I feel so sad for her I can't imagine how horrible it must have been for her. Hopefully next time she is pregnant she stays home to rest.

I kept thinking "Where the heck is Jamie?!".....Well I guess he is in jail so I can't be so mad at him. Now Claire is going to do something irrational to get him out of jail so he can finish his plan.

The scene with the French court and Raymon and "the White Woman" is very strange, but I guess gives us some historical context about what it was like to be a healer in this time period. Mostly I just wanted it to get over with so I can see what happens with Jamie.

And Poor Fergus!! I can understand why Jamie wanted to kill Randall even more.

And of course we get a taste of Jamie's stupid stubborn self where he won't even let Claire talk to him. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

Shannon said "I believe there's something like 10 novels (???) in this series & something is going to have to change for me to see myself continuing on"

I completely agree. I am still waiting for something awesome and unique to happen in this book. I'm carrying on with that hope but really it keeps going in circles almost.

[Shannon]

RebeccaS wrote: "Shannon said "I believe there's something like 10 novels (???) in this series & something is going to have to change for me to see myself continuing on"

I completely agree. I am still waiting fo..."

Agreed. It seems to just be the same things happening (in different variations) over and over again. I don't get what seems to be all the (view spoiler)[gratuitous rape scenes. What is the point exactly? I get Jamie. It played a major part in the storyline. But ALL the others? And I'm really tired of all the forced separations & rescuing! (hide spoiler)]

I read the overview for book 3 & a bunch of reviews (including spoilers). I'm really not sure I'm on board to continue. Maybe if I absolutely can't find anything else.

[Rebecca]

That's so disappointing because I loved and I wish she could continue that interesting and unique writing. I was kind of hoping she would introduce new characters and continue the series with them. At least that would introduce some differences in the plot.

And yes, (view spoiler)[ the rape scenes are too much, completely unnecessary and painful to read. She really needs to find new "plot twist" techniques. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

I also think they could be shorter. If they were a more reasonable length it would be easier to continue on. But to commit to a huge book that I'm losing interest in is hard.

[Shannon]

RebeccaS wrote: "I also think they could be shorter. If they were a more reasonable length it would be easier to continue on. But to commit to a huge book that I'm losing interest in is hard."

Exactly! I've read tons of series where I wasn't really crazy about it, but was determined to see what happens. It's one thing to do that with a 350-400 pp book, entirely another for books over 800pp.

[Rebecca]

Part 5:

(view spoiler)[
Back to Scotland we go! Finally.

It was nice to see Jenny and Ian again and get some calm home life scenes. However, now I am so antsy for action, I wanted to jump right into the battle.

It seems like by trying to prevent Charles' rebellion, the failed in many ways. Now he is rebelling with less chance of winning (with no support from other kings or money) AND has forced Jamie into being involved. It seems like it would have been better for Jamie to avoid Charles in the first place and he wouldn't have been dragged in.

The rebellion is started and we know (or think we know) that Jamie dies here and Claire travels forward in time. This is what I am most interested in and have been waiting through the whole book to figure out. Lets hurry it up!! (hide spoiler)]

[Emma (M)]

It sounds like we are at about the same place in the book RebeccaS. (view spoiler)[ Jamie and Claire are marching to battle and Jamie has just used Claire to get information out of the English boy that tried to kill him while they were camping for the night. I am so happy the book has moved back to Scotland, I was getting tired of the French storyline - all the plotting was getting tedious. However, I also just want to get on with how Claire ends up back in the 20th century. Knowing it should be soon is driving me nuts! Also, I am really glad that Ian decided to stay home with Jenny and children. It is good to know that he will be there to run the farm when Jamie dies in battle (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

Part 6:

(view spoiler)[ Poor Jamie. What a terrible position he is in now. He tried so hard to prevent Prince Charles from going to Scotland to start an uprising. Then, after being forced to support him get injured and has to bring his people to certain death. And when he finally finds an opportunity to get his men away, they are captured and held prisoners for treason. He even tried to save his Uncle's men, but then his uncle died and Dougal made them stay.

And then Jamie and Claire are seperated, but it never really feels that desperate for Claire. The scene when Jamie comes into the rescue her made me laugh.

Now we know the secret of Frank's ancestor. It makes sense that Alexander was his real ancestor and it was hinted at when Claire met him and thought he really was Frank. Poor Mary having to lose her love and marry Jack. At least we know that he doesn't live long.

It looks like maybe Claire and Jamie aren't changing history at all. I think maybe these things have already happened and that's why her present is the way it is. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

Can someone who has read Part 6 tell me (view spoiler)[ Why Dugal wanted to kill Claire? I'm listening to it on audio and that part was screwed up so I had to jump in with Jamie killing him, but I don't know why.

Thanks!! (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon]

@Rebecca

(view spoiler)[Dougal overheard Claire telling Jamie one option they had left would be killing Charles. She left it up to Jamie -- who declined -- Claire even was happy he said no.

Dougal was incensed calling her a traitor & enraged and refusing to listen, intent on killing Claire

I found a bit crazy myself (hide spoiler)]

[Emma (M)]

Well, after a marathon reading session today, I have finally finished it. As frustrated as I was with this story in parts, it has now left me wanting to read the next in the series to find out what happens from here.

I really, really want Brianna to meet Jamie, although I am not sure how that may happen, but surely it has to happen at some point?

I didn't see Roger's ancestor twist coming, I have to say. Also, I found Roger so much better in the second half of the book than I did at the start. I really found him creepy to start with, but didn't find he was creepy at the end. This is probably a good thing as I am sure he will continue to feature in the next book.

Anyhow, as much as I want to read on, I am really going to have to have a break before tackling another really long book.

Will you other ladies be trying the third installment of the Outlander series?

[Rebecca]

I just finished and OF COURSE there is a cliff hanger. (view spoiler)[ I'm not at all surprised that Jamie didn't die when Claire thought he did. I'm assuming she is going to try and go back and re-find him in the next one.

The whole thing with Gilly Dunkin was very strange. I don't really understand what happened and what Claire's part was in it. I think I was just rushing through to get to the end. (hide spoiler)]

I'll probably read the third one just to see if the series develops at all, because I hate leaving things unfinished. But it won't be for a while, probably not until February.

[Emma (M)]

Rebecca, talking to some people who have read the series it is supposed to get better, apparently book 2 is where a lot of people have trouble.

[Rebecca]

Emma, that's really good to know. I love the characters and the setting, but this one just disappointed me a little. I'll definitely continue with the series sometime.

[Claire]

Chapter 5

still going slow
(view spoiler)[So Claire finally told Bree what happened. I think Claire didn't do it properly. I know it is difficult to explain something like that and not pass as someone totally crazy. there's no way to prepare someone for such information. But she just blurted it out!
Roger on the other hand seemed to believe her immediately. strange. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

I agree Angel (view spoiler)[ I think Claire went about it all wrong, though I don't know if I would be able to any better under the circumstances. You would think after 20 years she would have it all planned out. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon]

Y'all are funny. But I agree too! She certainly could have handled things differently?

[jingles]

I'm late again....

I just finished up chapter 5 this morning.

Chapters 1 - 5

(view spoiler)[I'm not sure how I feel about Roger. It seems quite odd to me that he already knows he wants to marry Bree. Strange that.

It's going to be very interesting to see how Bree handles this news of Frank not being her real father. (hide spoiler)]

Angel, I so totally agree with you about (view spoiler)[the way Claire told Bree about her real father. (hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

I just finished part one, chapters 1-5. (view spoiler)[ I forgot about Claire going to the old fashioned bathroom and talking about if she needed to bring in her owl napkins to the bathroom. LOL.

I forgot all this Brianna stuff. I remember that Claire had Jamie's baby but I forgot all this stuff and that Claire was just waiting to raise Bree to go back to Jamie. It was convenient that Frank died.

As for the grave, of Johnathan Randall. Claire's reaction must have been so confusing to Brianna. Especially when she talked about Jamie. Honestly, if your mother said that your father was some dead guy for 200 years and she was married to him, time to get some professional help.

Claire told Brianna about her biofather terribly wrong. I mean the damage that can do. Also what was she thinking telling Frank back then. That would fracture the relationship so badly. Poor Frank. I just feel so badly for him. I think this was the major change for me from when I read this 20 years ago. (hide spoiler)]

[jingles]

Oh my goodness....well, I got caught up in some other books from the library that I had to get read because they had to be returned.

Hopefully I can concentrate on this now and get it finished.

Rachel, I so agree with you about (view spoiler)[Claire and the way she handled telling Bree about her real father. And yeah, Frank kind of got the bad end of the deal here, I would say. And Frank's passing was quite convenient, wasn't it? (hide spoiler)]

I managed to pick up at chapter 6 and read through chapter 16.

Chapter 6 - 16

(view spoiler)[I'm loving this historical part about France. I found it a bit irritating that yet another Frank look alike showed up on the scene. This part is a little over done I think.

Sometimes I find myself a bit confused going back and forth between the two timelines. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention. Lol (hide spoiler)]

[B'burg Linda]

Hi y'all. Just checking in. I started the book several days ago, but with the holiday commotion, didn't have a chance to check in and see if anyone else was still reading. Glad to see there are other latecomers besides me.

I'm on chapter 37 and enjoying the book (it hasn't had me crying yet!). I'm anxious to get on my computer so I can read everybody's comments; my Kindle won't let me open the spoilers.

I definitely will continue with the series, but won't read the third book for a couple of months. It might be a good spring break read for me.

[jingles]

Good idea to take a break between books, Linda. I read a couple of them too close together the first time around, and it was just overwhelming.

I manage to read a few more chapters.

Chapter 17 - 33

(view spoiler)[I don't know what it is...maybe my frame of mind so something like that, but I'm finding several things quite irritating with the book this time around.

For instance...Jamie just keeps landing in prison and needing to be rescued by Claire. That enough of that already. Let's move on to some other complication, please.

I had a really hard time with Claire's reaction to Jamie's side of things as far as Jack Randall was concerned (in that she didn't want Jamie to kill Randall because of Frank), until I learned why Jamie went after Randall. It's going to be very nice when Randall finally goes down for good.

I found the story a bit off kilter during the scene where Jamie finds Claire after she looses the child, where she is telling him what she did to get him out of prison. The way that part was layed out, Claire telling Jamie that nothing happened between her and the King, and then the flashback of what actually did happen, it was a bit confusing, and I actually had to rewind several times, thinking I had a part missing. Irritating, that.

Otherwise, it's moving right along nicely for the most part. I can definitely tell a re-read was not really wise for me though :) (hide spoiler)]

[SthTx Dawn]

I working my way through this one as well..I'm finding it a bit slow..About half way through, and can't help laugh at the Gabaldon's depiction of Parisian society..

[B'burg Linda]

Finished! I agree with some of the complaints voiced above, but overall, I really enjoyed the book - maybe even more than the first one. I don't know much European history, so all of the political maneuvering/intrigue was interesting to me, as well as getting to know the characters better. While improbable, the plot twists didn't bother me. However, I have one big question for those of you who have finished the book.

(view spoiler)[ If the time difference between the past and the present is supposedly 200 years exactly (as I think I recall from the first book), how does Geillis Duncan leave in 1968 (20 years after Claire) and arrive back in the past earlier than Claire's arrival? Is this an error on Gabaldon's part, in which case the inconsistency will seriously bug me, or is there more to this time travel than Claire supposes? In which case, why doesn't Claire go back to when Jamie was still alive?

And wasn't that a surprise when Roger discloses that Jamie didn't die at Culloden?

Another puzzle is how Jamie's ghost (in the first book) was able to hang around outside her window when she and Frank were vacationing after the war. Supposedly, Claire hadn't time traveled yet, so how does Jamie know her? I hope these are clues that maybe there is more control over the time travel than we have been led to believe to date. And, somehow, ghosts are going to come in to play, too. Yay! (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon]

jingles wrote: "Good idea to take a break between books, Linda. I read a couple of them too close together the first time around, and it was just overwhelming.

I manage to read a few more chapters.

Chapter 17 -..."

That was pretty much my reaction

[jingles]

I finally finished this one up today.

Chapter 34 - End

(view spoiler)[Wow @ all that political intrigue involving King Louie (sp ??), Charles Stuart, and Clan Fraser! This makes me want to read a whole bunch of non-fiction just to find out what really happened.

I must admit, I tended to get lost and lose my focus from time to time, with all that was going on. It was almost too much to take in.

Something is up between Roger and Brianna for sure. Guess we'll soon see what that is all about. Brianna is not taking this whole "Frank is not her real father" thing very calmly, but who can blame her.

I do think Brianna reaction to the whole whiskey drinking thing is quite funny.

What did you all think about Jack Randall's brother, Adam (I think his name was) and Mary? This was very intriguing to me as it was another piece of the puzzle regarding frank. Maybe I misunderstood it, but am I to understand that that situation makes Frank a direct descendant of Adam and not Jack Randall? Adam and Jack Randall are brothers though.

@ Linda - (view spoiler)[As far as the time difference, I do remember Jamie and Claire talking at one point about Claire's returning to the present (1945), and there was concern about her going back through the standing stones, because they couldn't be sure she would return to that time. Claire's concern was she may travel back further in time, or she could travel further forward, brining her to an all together totally different time. This may explain some of the time difference, in that maybe Geillis Duncan went through the standing stones more than once? I don't know if that make sense, but that's what I thought of.

Yes, I found Roger's discovery regarding Jamie not dying at Culloden very interesting as well.

I'm still foggy on that whole ghost thing from the beginning of book 1. The ghost has to be Jamie though. Who else could it be?

All in all, I'm glad to be done with it so I can move on to something else :) (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

I know I'm late but I'm starting today. If anyone still wants to discuss, that's great. If not, no big deal!

[SthTx Dawn]

jingles wrote: "I finally finished this one up today.

All in all, I'm glad to be done with it so I can move on to something else :)"

Ain't that the truth..lol...

Finished..

(view spoiler)[I don't quite understand the relationship between Bree and Roger..Roger just seems a bit stuffy to me..

It troubles me that Claire promised Frank that she wouldn't try to find out what happened to Jamie and his men while he was still alive..I just can't see her accepting that..Did anybody else find that odd? (hide spoiler)]

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Because the page count on the editions vary so widely, we've checked the word count of this one and it is 338,528. That means that we would consider this a book of more than 901 pages so you can let you captain's know when you finish they csn use the "page override" tab in their spreadsheet to claim points for this one of editions larger than 901 pages

[jingles]

@Dawn (view spoiler)[ I think that whole relationship between Claire and Frank was doomed after Claire's return.

As for the relationship between Bree and Roger, it was pretty obvious where that was headed from the very beginning. (hide spoiler)]

@ Greta - how's it going? How far in are you? Are you enjoying the book?

[Greta]

Jingles, so far it is good! What a change from the last book. I'm in Chapter 3 and should get some more read tonight also.

(view spoiler)[I wasn't expecting this jump to Claire's future as a mom to a grown daughter in present day. What a surprise! I'm so curious to see how she got to where she is and what exactly is she trying to learn with this research she is doing? It is great but leaving me with lots of questions! (hide spoiler)]

[jingles]

Glad you are enjoying it, Greta.

(view spoiler)[Yes, it does all seem kind of weird, but will soon start to fall slowly into place, much like a puzzle does - one piece at a time. It will have you on the edge of your seat before it's all said and done. LOL. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Moderators of NBRC wrote: "Because the page count on the editions vary so widely, we've checked the word count of this one and it is 338,528. That means that we would consider this a book of more than 901 pages so you can le..."

Awesome, thanks!!

[SthTx Dawn]

@jingles (view spoiler)[ Yes..I agree. Even in the first book there just seemed to be something off about them.. (hide spoiler)]

@Greta (view spoiler)[ What did you think think about the book starting in the future? I didn't like it, but I admit I am wondering what happened during all those missing years.. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

SthTx Dawn wrote: "@jingles [spoilers removed]

@Greta [spoilers removed]"

Dawn- (view spoiler)[ I'm impatient to read more about Claire and Jamie, but this certainly makes things more suspenseful! (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

RachelvlehcaR wrote: "I just finished part one, chapters 1-5. I forgot about Claire going to the old fashioned bathroom and talking about if she needed to bring in her owl napkins to the bathroom. LOL.

I forgot all t..."

Rachel- (view spoiler)[I agree that telling Bree like that would make it a real shock for her daughter. I think any way she would have done it would have been shocking! And I think Claire was so surprised to see Jamie's grave there that it really came out a lot worse than she was hoping it would. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca]

If anyone is interested at any time in the future to do a BR for Voyager, just let me know here! I've caught up (mostly) with my book list so I can probably do it any time in the future.

[Greta]

I'm through Chapter 9 now-

(view spoiler)[Wow, Jack Randall isn't dead?? What a shock! I can't wait to read on to find out how this plays out! I was wondering how they could possibly account for Frank being born if his ancestor died before having a child. I had this feeling though that Randall might not have been dead...kind of like in George RR Martin's books, unless you see them dead, you can't assume they really are!! (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Finished Part 2- (view spoiler)[ Ahhh, so it was Jack Randall's brother!! So glad that he is not still alive, but that doesn't explain how Frank is born then. I will have to wait patiently to find that out.

I'm not surprised at all the Claire find work in the hospital. Bouton is a wonder dog, sniffing out those infections...how amazing!

I don't know the actual history of that time very well, so it is a little confusing to figure out what is going on with the Jacobites. I was very impressed that they were able to decode that music piece.

We know that Claire goes back to present time while she's pregnant and from my estimates she is about halfway through her pregnancy right now...so about 4-5 months left for her in the past. I'm so curious to find out how and why she leaves again. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

This is taking me awhile but some more thoughts:

(view spoiler)[

I really like the Mother who runs the hospital. She seems like a very interesting character who is unlike any of the others Gabaldon has written about. I also love her little French dog, Bartoun. It's weird to see the side of Jamie that is focused on espionage and mind-games rather than physical abilities. I almost feel like he's out of place when he starts stealing letters and decoding ciphers. I kind of like him better when he was on the run, and wasn't dropped into this weird merchant position where he has to be both politically and socially savvy.
(hide spoiler)]

[SthTx Dawn]

Mother and Bouton the wonder dog are fun characters.(view spoiler)[.They really are much better for Claire to be around than all that stuffy high society she finds herself with in Paris.. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Taryn wrote: "This is taking me awhile but some more thoughts:



I really like the Mother who runs the hospital. She seems like a very interesting character who is unlike any of the others Gabaldon has written..."

I agree, Taryn, it is a new role for him (view spoiler)[ and seems like he's having a harder time with it. I would think it would be more difficult for Claire to entertain all of these high society people all the time as well, but she seems to be handling that fine. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Part 3- (view spoiler)[ Lots happens in this part! I could not believe that Claire had to go to a dinner party right after someone tried to rape her...that was very disturbing to me. And poor Mary!! You would think they would find a way to cancel the dinner and let the women recover.

And Jack Randall is alive...I am surprised Jamie didn't try to kill him immediately since he almost tried to kill his brother because he resembled Jack.

I hope Jack leaves immediately so Jamie doesn't have to spend time with him...that would be terrible for him. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Greta wrote:

You and I are on exactly the same reading track, I think Greta. I also just finished Part 3 and am well in the the 4th. (view spoiler)[ I don't think it surprised me much that Randall was still alive. What did surprise me was what happens in Part 4...so hurry so we can talk about it!!! ;) No, but I also just have this weird opinion of Gabaldon now that I've read this other rape scene. I wonder if she really thinks historically that there was so much rape. In Paris especially, there would have been more protection for women, and, therefore, there would be hardly any rape whatsoever. Especially among ladies with such a high position, means, and a structured family. That means, to me, that she is literally just putting so much rape into these books because she thinks either the characters or the plot cannot move forward without it. I don't think writing should be censored in any way, but I just question these motives.

In another vein, I do really love the witchcraft angle. Especially because Claire is such an out-of-place character, it makes sense that her knowledge and straightforwardness would be skewed as such. Can't wait to see what happens with La Carte Blanche persona. Also...does anyone else really like the apothecary, Raymond? (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Uhhhhh

(view spoiler)[ If I have to go through another tearful heart-to-heart then straight-to-the-sex scene between Claire and Jaime, I might literally stop reading the series. A couple were fine, and now they are just cliche and boring. And completely unrealistic. In fact, I'm longing for the scenes in which Jamie and Claire are not even remotely in close proximity to each other. There are only so many ways you can describe the same person's physique. Seriously. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon]

Taryn wrote: "Uhhhhh

[spoilers removed]"

Ha! I pretty much completly ranted my way through the end of this book.

[Rebecca]

I agree Taryn!! Come on that's not even fun to read.