Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy discussion
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Why The Resistance To Reviews?
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Angie wrote: "Danielle wrote: "Merry wrote: "I very rarely review books and when I do, it's here on Goodreads. I get very annoyed by some of the liberties taken by people when they leave "reviews" on Amazon when..."As an Author myself, I don't feel like I'm entitled to a review. Not in the slightest. I fully agree with your comment in that what you do once you have bought the book is entirely your choice. I also agree that reviews help readers more than they help authors although on the same token, a good review will indirectly help an author by giving that book social proof; which will in turn help him or her sell more copies.
However.
I while I don't condone shoving this down people's throats, I don't think it's necessarily wrong for an author to ask for reviews from people in their networks who have already read their books. The choice is entirely down to the reader at the end of the day, and if an author wants to go down this route it's down to him/ her to not whine about not getting reviews :-)
GR has been good to me so far as a new author. I write, read and review. If something doesn't work for me I'll say it and I expect reviewers to do the same for me. None of this is personal. It makes me sad when people say they've stopped reviewing because of harassment. Half my TBR comes from reviews from friends. Sometimes they'll give something one star, but I end up loving it. So, all reviews count. One person's hunky guy is another person's alphahole.
Danielle wrote: "Merry wrote: "I very rarely review books and when I do, it's here on Goodreads. I get very annoyed by some of the liberties taken by people when they leave "reviews" on Amazon when it's not actuall..."I agree about the marketing! If it's not what it claims to be readers should be warned! :)
Angie wrote: "Danielle wrote: "Merry wrote: "I very rarely review books and when I do, it's here on Goodreads. I get very annoyed by some of the liberties taken by people when they leave "reviews" on Amazon when..."I agree... no one should leave reviews if they don't want to. Before I became an author I never bothered! Too much hassle, right?
I quite enjoy writing reviews for books now. It helps me keep track of what I read and when.
Akaria wrote: "GR has been good to me so far as a new author. I write, read and review. If something doesn't work for me I'll say it and I expect reviewers to do the same for me. None of this is personal. It ma..."
Oooo... I love that! "Alphahole" Ha ha ha!
I have a brilliant friend who constantly likes books I hate. We laugh about it and think it funny. The world would be SO boring if we all thought the same.
Vanessa wrote: "As an author, I have to say that some reviews are extremely helpful, but others (especially the long rambling ones) are not! I have been stuck with quotes from a review given to me 2 years ago via amazon, regardless of the lovely reviews I have got since. That really stings.Also, I think some reviewers get a kick out of hurting authors. There is no need to be spiteful.
This is not a pitch, but seriously look at the difference in the reviews on the Amazon US site for my book and Amazon UK..."
It might seem harsh, but I'm personally over caring what authors think about my reviews. Every time one of these threads pop up, several authors pop in, each with a different "perfect review" template. Some like yourself only want short blurbs. Others want detailed explanations of why a plot point didn't work for you. And then there are the ones don't want anything negative at all. I just can't fulfill all those briefs. This is the reason lots of people don't review because they don't want to be labeled a troll, or bully because they didn't like something. I'm just totally against tone policing. If a review is about the book, follows site rules, than it's fine. Especially when authors obviously like your positive reviews in the same voice, because they literally "like" them. I have also been solicited by other authors to beta-read or read-to-review their own books because of a negative review in the same genre. See my confusion about this?
When I'm writing them, you aren't my audience. Authors reading them are kind of standing behind the door, listening to people talk about them. When you cyber-eavesdrop on conversations, just like in life, your ego might be lifted, or smashed to smithereens.
And it goes without saying British people are legendary for their manners, of course their reviews would be nicer than what comes from us "Ugly Americans."
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "It might seem harsh, but I'm personally over caring what authors think about my reviews."I completely agree with this sentiment. I write what I want in my review because of how the book made me feel. I talk about the characters and whether or not if I liked them and then I move on. I try not to be mean even if I don't like a book.
I do want to emphasize that I NEVER proposed a "perfect" review - I was just asking for ANY reviews!And I can't emphasize enough that I never implied that a reader owes a writer anything; I was simply trying to find out why more people didn't leave reviews. And boy, did I get some interesting answers!
Veronica Del Rosa wrote: "I completely agree with this sentiment. I write what I want in my review because of how the book made me feel. I talk about the characters and whether or not if I liked them and then I move on. I try not to be mean even if I don't like a book... "Veronica, when saying something negative I'm clinically precise about only mentioning characters, plots, or events contained in the pages. When it's good I've been known to slip in my praise. I've yet to hear a writer complain about being labeled "brilliant" for making something work, though it's personal.
For the record, I have always loved meeting Americans! My dad used to work for an American company and it was amazing to be greeted by one of his colleagues with, "How are you today, Vanessa? Great to see you again."So... I gawped - a LOT!
I am all for honesty. In fact, it's better to hear the truth than a lie. The English are very good at not saying what they really want to say... I am a colonial so sit on the fence!
I think it's not a question of where you are from, it's an issue of manners.
If you get given something from a promo company generally you thank them or say no thank you. You don't tend to take it and then scream, "I hate this!"
Every reader is entitled to their opinion, within reason... Maybe? :)
Vanessa wrote: "If you get given something from a promo company generally you thank them or say no thank you. You don't tend to take it and then scream, "I hate this!" "Ah, this is such a dangerous statement in the book reviewing realm! (Though I don't think you meant it to be.) Most books are not accepted by book bloggers or readers who accept requests, blog or not, for the intent of promoting or advertising them (from the readers perspective). And lets be clear, many readers and reviewers consider an agreement in which a reviewer accepts a book in exchange for only a good review (whether the reviewer praises the book without reading it or simply agrees not to post a review if it would be negative) as little more than an adertisement. And both reviewer and author lose a lot of credibility if they function this way. That's why you see so many 'I received this book in exchange for an honest review' statements. The idea is, yes, I was given this book for free, but I have not agreed to provide any unearned accolades. The exchange is that I read a book I might not have otherwise, because it was provided to me. That's the payoff to the author, not the expectable good review.
Receiving a book promo for review is not the same as accepting dry, overly salty chocolate chip cookies from your neighbour. If my elderly neighbour brings me a plate of cookies, I'm going to say, 'thank you, they're great' regardless. That is mannerly, just as you say. This harms no one, as no one else is forming an opinion on the fact that I don't want to tell her she can no longer tell the difference between her salt and sugar tins.
But if a company (or individual of a professional persuasion) sends me a book in exchange for a public statement, my endorsement has to be real and in order for any such statement to be true readers have to know I'm also willing say which ones I dislike. The whole system falls apart if readers ONLY post about things they like and if they only post about things they like and have been compensated for focusing on...again we're all reduced to advertisements. This is not a matter of manners. This is a matter of professionalism, even if the reviewer is a hobbiest. And sometimes professionalism has to trump what would in other circumstances (with my neighbour. for example) would call for socially scripted lies.
And I'm afraid that, "Every reader is entitled to their opinion." Period. There is no 'within reason.' That falls into what a previous poster called 'tone policing' and it's impossible. I'm afraid every reader is entitled to be rude and disparaging if they like. It's unpleasant and true.
Vanessa wrote: "...If you get given something from a promo company generally you thank them or say no thank you. You don't tend to take it and then scream, "I hate this!" Every reader is entitled to their opinion, within reason... Maybe? :) "
In one of my other groups, a writer solicited read-2-reviews, with a stipulation of only sending her book to people with a rating averages 3 and above. Others might have quibbled about that, but I respected that she was screening who got her book, without telling people "it's free so only good reviews." When Costco is handing out free samples to the general public to promote a particular product, they can't control if someone spits it out screaming, "This is the nastiest mess I ever tasted!" It's part of the risk/reward ratio of handing things out free to the general population. Once it's out there you have no control over it, this risk probably quadruples when it's the internet. News flash...the internet is not a nice place. The "not nice things" the book community might say pales in comparison to what the music community has to deal with on Youtube. As a singer I know this from experience. For the most part you all are getting dinged for editing, and plot fails, fixable things. Try insults based on religion, race, fat shaming, misogyny, gay bashing, etc But people keep loading things up there with the hope of getting noticed. The same principle that spurs writers into giving free books away on Amazon.
Sadie wrote: "But if a company (or individual of a professional persuasion) sends me a book in exchange for a public statement, my endorsement has to be real and in order for any such statement to be true readers have to know I'm also willing say which ones I dislike. The whole system falls apart if readers ONLY post about things they like and if they only post about things they like and have been compensated for focusing on...again we're all reduced to advertisements. This is not a matter of manners. This is a matter of professionalism, even if the reviewer is a hobbiest. And sometimes professionalism has to trump what would in other circumstances (with my neighbour. for example) would call for socially scripted lies."Sadie, this x 1,000!
Once again I have to go back to YouTube as an example. A lot of the popular Beauty Vloggers, get tons of free swag to try out. No one would believe any of their testimonials if they touted everything magic in a bottle, just because they got it free. I don't have a blog or anything, but write at least a quick note here for every book read. If I wasn't honest about the things not liked, how could my friends take my word about the next best new unknown read found? When I love a book, ARC or not, I tweet about, praise it in every group it matches, and recommend to all my book buddies into that type of thing. I know for a fact my recs are responsible for at least 10 to 20 book purchases a month. That's small potatoes, but every little bit helps. Especially when those people love it, and pass it forward until it snowballs. If I gave everything 4 or 5 stars, my praise would just become sock puppet white noise. This would cancel out the very reason writers even want reviews from me in the first place.
I agree with both of you and understand. In my defence, I have not given away my book for an honest review... It is just free to download. It is the only way to get people reading my work. Recently, I have considered taking it off and letting it sink into the abyss, but I have met the most amazing people and readers along this road. The advantages of being free outweigh the negative reviews I might get. Anyone is entitled to give an opinion and to say what they like. It just hurts sometimes, that's all :(
Vanessa wrote: "I agree with both of you and understand. In my defence, I have not given away my book for an honest review... It is just free to download. It is the only way to get people reading my work. Recently, I have considered taking it off and letting it sink into the abyss, but I have met the most amazing people and readers along this road. The advantages of being free outweigh the negative reviews I might get. ..."Vanessa, I can understand a bad review hurting your feelings. If sharing your work is bringing you joy, than by all means continue doing so. Just pointing out those advantages inherently come with a price. Criticism is just part of internet ecosystem. In comparison book nerds are much nicer than the other nerds of cyberlandia. Google gamergate for perspective.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Criticism is just part of internet ecosystem. In comparison book nerds are much nicer than the other nerds of cyberlandia. Google gamergate for perspective. "Oh, that is sooo true. I don't know about you, but I personally, haven't threatened to rape or sodomize anyone today. Im just sayin'.
Sadie wrote: "Oh, that is sooo true. I don't know about you, but I personally, haven't threatened to rape or sodomize anyone today. Im just sayin'. "Not to mention the hacking and doxing.
Absolutely, readers are the BEST! Since I am one too... LOL! :)I have just joined a review group actually. Let's see how I go! I just love reading, writing came second!
Every cloud has a silver lining... I think reading is more important to me anyway. I just figure if I have nothing good to say, then best not to bother! :)
Vanessa wrote: "Absolutely, readers are the BEST! Since I am one too... LOL! :)I have just joined a review group actually. Let's see how I go! I just love reading, writing came second!
Every cloud has a silver ..."
Vanessa, this might help take your bad reviews a little better too. When I'm thinking about trying a book that none of my book buddies have ratings for, the 1 stars are all I read, never the 5. I'm looking for key things. If it's an English major complaining about verb tense, improper use of semi-colons, or something: ignore. Multiple reviews complaining about extreme editing issues though are a red flags. Even then, if the blurb caught my attention, might read the sample to test myself. I have romance storylines other people hate, that are favorites. If cheating, pregnancy, BDSM, or the hero being too alpha inspired the rant, than most likely it's for me. I can't even count how many times a supposed "bad review" sold a book to me. I don't trust rave reviews from people whose book tastes are unknown to me. I might read them, laugh at the gifs, and "like" them. But those reviews from strangers don't move my click finger. I'm especially suspicious of books on Amazon without bad reviews.
As an author, I have dealt with all of the things mentioned on this thread. I have a couple of 1 star reviews/ratings from a couple of literary thugs who posted hundreds of 1 star ratings on indie books in a single day. I also have blogger/reviewer friends who have horror stories about authors who have gone berserk over bad reviews. Unfortunately, many reviewers have stopped reviewing indie books after such encounters.For myself, I only review books by indie authors or new trad published authors, and then only if I can give it 4 or 5 stars. I don't want to hurt an author, and I don't need the backlash against my own books.
One of the things that I wish GR and Amazon would enforce is that reviews should only talk about the book. Personal attacks on an author should be banned.
Someone said, "To get "those" five star reviews on bulk you either have a lot of friends, you pay for reviews, or exchange them. I refuse to review unless I have read."
I strongly disagree with this. I know some do this, but it's dishonest and it always backfires. I usually get my reviews by submitting my books to independent reviewers/bloggers and then cross my fingers that they will like the book. My 5 star reviews are not from friends, nor did I pay anyone. I always submit my books to Night Owl, and a good review from them helps to get my book accepted for review by other bloggers.
All of that said, there is a lot of trash out there -- poorly edited, poorly written with shallow characters, plot holes, horrible sentence structure, lack of any idea about how to use punctuation ... I have had indie authors proudly tell me that they edit their own work, and when I sampled it found it almost unreadable. I will not review such works.
Even Nora Roberts and Stephen King get 1-star reviews. When I look at a book on Amazon, I first read the 1 stars. If the reviews talk about poor writing and editing, boring characters, and an unbelievable plot, then I'm apt to pass on the book. But in many cases, the 1-stars lead me to believe I would like the book and I buy it.
As the original poster said, indie authors live for good reviews. When I publish a new book, I write to dozens of blogs asking if they are willing to accept my book for review. It's a lot of work, but if you have a good product, it pays off. If you sit back and wait for your book to be magically discovered, you'll be disappointed. KDP is publishing thousands of books every day.
B.R. wrote: "As an author, I have dealt with all of the things mentioned on this thread. I have a couple of 1 star reviews/ratings from a couple of literary thugs who posted hundreds of 1 star ratings on indie ..."B.R. yeah it's true that there has been a little crazy on both sides of author/reviewer aisle. I have heard of other authors seeing lower ratings from their brethren as an act of war. Sometimes I feel bad for you guys because you lose by giving honest reviews and being too free with the stars.
When it comes to the bulk 5 stars, does that necessarily translate to money in your pockets? I know looking at the Ellora Cave vs. Dear Author mess, a lot of those writers had decent ratings, but weren't making crap according to the many blog posts detailing everything.
only has a 3.56 rating, and
3.69 but killing everyone where it counts. To me it's less about the stars than the word of mouth and recommendations. Even all the nice people giving away stars like candy, are they recommending all those books to their friends? No. Even if they are, most of their book friends have their recs on the "pay no mind" list because they over-like everything.
I know lots of readers hated Twilight... I loved it! Call me a sucker for love & vampires. But, the ending was disappointing. I prefer the "what if?" ending to the "happily ever after".I think this is why I really enjoyed Frozen and more recently Malificent! Yep, I have a 5 year old!
Like I said, we can't all agree, but we should respect hard work. On a totally different subject, I heard someone slate something a friend of mine made for my kids primary school. I know she spent ages making the plaster cast reindeer and I thought it was nasty to call it horrid! But, there you go... Opinions are free! :)
Vanessa wrote: "I know lots of readers hated Twilight... I loved it! Call me a sucker for love & vampires. But, the ending was disappointing. I prefer the "what if?" ending to the "happily ever after".I think th..."
Vanessa I loved Fifty, and it gets so much hate. I even had endless debates with my real life friends about it. But in the end E.L. James still got their money because they had to read it, though knowing they would hate it. In my office alone there were 50 women reading that book. The reviews were split in half, either loving it or hating it with the heat of a 1,000 suns. That's the one book writers have no problem giving 1 stars, and railing against.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "To me it's less about the stars than the word of mouth and recommendations. Even all the nice people giving away stars like candy, are they recommending all those books to their friends? No. Even if they are, most of their book friends have their recs on the "pay no mind" list because they over-like everything."I actually have friends that would likely fall under your "over-like everything" label- and they are bloggers, but I do actually value their opinion, and their recommendations. I DID have Fifty Shades recommended before the third book and huge publicity even hit. I do still have near daily recommendations that often translate into at least adding to my TBR list, if not actually buying, borrowing, and attempting to secure a review copy of that title.
I guess, I'm just frustrated by an almost double-standard that seems to be going on. If we like a book, like many books, tend to be 'free' with stars and passionate and maybe 'squee' or 'fangirl' or have a little verbal dirrhea in our reviews because we're so jazzed about a book... we're written off, our reviews are written off, our ratings are ignored and recommendations are 'paid-no-mind'. But if we are stingy with the stars, critical of books in our reviews, then we are 'being negative' and are chided and/or ignored just as much as if we were on a squee-train.
It just seems like no matter what our reading and/or review style (or lack thereof) is like, there is always someone that is not going to be happy. But it does upset me when some people thump their desk about writing reviews and then turn around and get all slap-happy bashing reviewers because they are excited, immature, or considered too Pollyanna.
Sorry if I'm rambling and not making much sense, but this is a passionate subject for me.
Alana ~ The Book Pimp wrote: "It just seems like no matter what our reading and/or review style (or lack thereof) is like, there is always someone that is not going to be happy. But it does upset me when some people thump their desk about writing reviews and then turn around and get all slap-happy bashing reviewers because they are excited, immature, or considered too Pollyanna."
You being happy about something doesn't put one in the "over-like" category. I have a "need-you-now" shelf myself for things I am patiently fangirling about and waiting on. What puts my own goodreads friend on the "over-like/ignore all recommendations" list is 5 star and reviewing stuff that hasn't come out yet (not ARCS or random observations while waiting), or recommending every single book you read (and you read over 100 a year). I am not bashing them because that's your right as a reviewer, just that I'm not taking your word that something is a good book. It doesn't mean I don't love them as people, several we private message daily, and cut up in groups. In real life if someone told me McDonald's had the best burgers ever, I would not ask them to recommend a restaurant. Obviously our taste levels don't match. Doesn't make mine better, just what it is. If that's considered wrong, well I'll take that.
Alana ~ The Book Pimp wrote: "I actually have friends that would likely fall under your "over-like everything" label- and they are bloggers, but I do actually value their opinion, and their recommendations..."Alana, I also have to add bloggers to me aren't the same as regular old goodreaders like myself. By the very nature of book blogging, you're going to have a different volume of books to judge, and review. I have friends that are also bloggers that send tons of recs, but they also don't rec every single thing their eyes run across either. Their reviews are the first place I go when researching whether to give something a shot or not.
What a fascinating discussion. I enjoy reviewing, but tend to focus on the positive. There's so much negativity around that this is my bit of karmic balance. That said, I tend to check out two star reviews to see what people struggled with in a book. Sometimes their struggle might be something I like :)
Angie wrote: "Danielle wrote: "Merry wrote: "I very rarely review books and when I do, it's here on Goodreads. I get very annoyed by some of the liberties taken by people when they leave "reviews" on Amazon when..."I agree whole heartedly with this. I do develop sentimentality toward most things I read and absolutely love when a work compels me to talk about it. Half of my pleasure reading involves gushing about what I've read. Authors who can make me do that deserve kudos galore.
Jenny wrote: "What a fascinating discussion. I enjoy reviewing, but tend to focus on the positive. There's so much negativity around that this is my bit of karmic balance. That said, I tend to check out two star..."I can't tell you how many times I've picked up a book with 2 stars thrilled at the prospect of finding some sort of treasure in it! Then again, my sense of humor can lean toward very broad and ironic, where things are so bad they're good. I notice though that negative reviews tend to be more astute? Or is that an unfair generalization?
Jane wrote: "I notice though that negative reviews tend to be more astute?"Jane, I read (and reviewed LOL) a great book
that talked about how we trust negative reviews - but they added a really interesting finding.When a reviewer says in their review that they're writing the review immediately/the same day they finished the book, readers will trust the review even if it's glowingly positive as much as they trust a negative review.
Jenny wrote: "Jane wrote: "I notice though that negative reviews tend to be more astute?"Jane, I read (and reviewed LOL) a great book
..."Wow! I wonder if it has something to do with this idea that genuineness is found in gut reactions to things? Or maybe the fact that details of what you read have more clarity in immediate recollection? (I'm thinking of dreams and how you can remember everything in those 3 seconds right after you wake up but the memory dissipates 10 minutes later.)
Jane, it's fascinating. I'd love to know why - as you say it seems to be gut/instinctive reaction to trust "first impressions".
Apparently quoting a specific part of a message is beyond my skill level; but I wanted to comment on Paganalexandria's post and say that I too have intentionally sought out 1 star reviews to look for and buy books I might like. I tend to appreciate a particular sort of anti-hero and plot elements that many people HATE (with a burning fire-y passion) so when looking at reviews I tend to look more for information vs. the reviewer's opinion. I have even when I have seen a horrible review on a book with elements I would like, then gone and checked out all the other reviews that reviewer has done to see if they stumbled upon any more books that they hated for those same reasons...so I can find more books to check out and potentially buy.I am just a reader w/ no writing aspirations but I have been reviewing all the books I read. I do it mainly for myself so I can remember what I've read, the basic plot elements and what I liked or didn't like about it. I'm honest and I would say my reviews probably follow the bell curve with a portion of both 1 and 5 star reviews. When I rate a book I try to say what I liked or didn't, realizing that reviews are subjective and what I may like or dislike someone else may feel the opposite. I never mention the author personally - because for me it isn't about the author it's about the story.
I have favorite 5 stars reads by certain authors that are in my keeper file and re-read upon occasion; and those same authors have other books I haven't even picked up because I know it would be a 1 star DNF. I'm not avoiding giving the 1 star, I am avoiding wasting my time on a book I know I would hate based on plot synopsis. So same author, same skill level - different stories. If I accidentally picked up and read one of those books - I would rate it honestly (for me) and say what it was I didn't like about it; fully realizing that what I didn't like is what could make someone else love it.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: You being happy about something doesn't put one in the "over-like" category. I have a "need-you-now" shelf myself for things I am patiently fangirling about and waiting on. What puts my own goodreads friend on the "over-like/ignore all recommendations" list is 5 star and reviewing stuff that hasn't come out yet (not ARCS or random observations while waiting), or recommending every single book you read (and you read over 100 a year)."I get the reasoning behind it, but really don't like when people give their favorite authors five stars as soon as a book is announced. I've got certain authors I fangirl over, but still won't rate the book until I've read it.
Akaria wrote: "Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: You being happy about something doesn't put one in the "over-like" category. I have a "need-you-now" shelf myself for things I am patiently fa..."I agree... read AND THEN review! :)
Akaria wrote: " get the reasoning behind it, but really don't like when people give their favorite authors five stars as soon as a book is announced. I've got certain authors I fangirl over, but still won't rate the book until I've read it. "Akira that drives me crazy for a purely selfish reason. I see it's rated, and reviewed at a glance. Then get all excited thinking, "OMG, they released it early!" Only to crash back down to earth after figuring out they practice the psychic review method. This isn't to be confused with people who actually received an advanced copy to review before the publication date. The 5 star ratings by themselves don't even bother me. It's when they are accompanied with gifs, that look like actual reviews until digging in.
Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
The Small Big: Small Changes That Spark Big Influence (other topics)The Small Big: Small Changes That Spark Big Influence (other topics)
Twilight (other topics)
Fifty Shades of Grey (other topics)
I agree. A book has to be pretty bad for me not to finish. I have chosen not to star a DNF (my own personal choice, I don't begrudge others who do) but I do leave a short description as to what was not working for me. I do this because I don't review for authors; I review for readers. And if there is someone who has similar tastes as me and relies on my reviews to help them out from time to time, this may be something that helps them.
As for leaving reviews, my goal is to write a review for every book I read, but that doesn't always happen. Some books just compel me to instantly write a review, and some I'm still waiting on writing because they just didn't move me to the point where it needed to be written immediately. I'm hoping to catch up on them someday!
I will admit, nothing turns me off to leaving a review more than an author who thinks they are entitled to one. My responsibility to the author is to obtain their book through legal means, whether that means I purchase it through Amazon or get it for free through Amazon. I have no obligation to leave a review, unless I have requested an ARC in exchange for one, but that's a horse of a different color.