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Deep River
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Deep River by Endo, Dec 2019 BOTM
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Kristel
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rated it 4 stars
Nov 29, 2019 02:18PM
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Kristel wrote: "Discussion leader is George."Hopefully we can get a link to our discussion by the main listing for this book soon.
Set mostly in India, Deep River chronicles the physical and spiritual journey of a group of five Japanese tourists who are facing a wide range of moral and spiritual dilemmas.
Shasuku Endo's (March 27, 1923 – September 29, 1996) best- known work is Silence which was made into a film in Japan and a few years ago made into a film by Martin Scorcese https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sile...
Endo became a Catholic as a young teen, as were his mother and aunt. He worked in a munitions factory in Japan during World War 2. He suffered from ill health much of his life, and spent two years in hospital at one point. He may have had tuberculosis, but still lived to age 73.
I noticed there are several very good comments by members of our group who have read this novel previously- you can access them by clicking on "see activity" under the main heading for Deep River (or click here https://www.goodreads.com/group/show_...).
I didn't feel that the novel really pushed Christianity, but rather explored its similarities to Hinduism and Buddhism. What do you think?
What did you think of the characters? Mitsuko was not very likeable was she? Some readers compared the novel to the Canterbury Tales, as not having a single dominant character. I found it helpful to make some short notes on the seven main characters (Isobe, Mitsuko Naruse, Otsu, Kiguchi, Numada, Enami and Sanjo) because they recur throughout the story. Anyone find the characters confusing?
It’s been awhile since I read this, but this was my review:For a short book, Deep River covers a lot. It’s interesting to be gazing through a window at the lives of these Japanese men and women as they themselves gaze through a window at Europeans (mostly French) and Indians. The main themes of the book are religion and grief - characters contemplate rebirth, Japanese Buddhism, the differences between Japanese Christianity and European Christianity, Hinduism and a few personal constructions, like the man who thinks of God as being in communion with nature and a woman who eventually decides that humanity is all connected in their river of sorrows.
But the book also touches on the horrors of war, on marriage, of generational gaps in Japan, on sex and love, on work and its discontents, on travel and being respectful of new cultures. It is heavily influenced by two books, Moira and Thérèse Desqueyroux, which influence and mirror one woman’s choices.
Japanese novels tend, for me, to be somewhat hard to understand at a fundamental level - there always seems to be something presented as a universal feeling or action that baffles me. In this novel it’s the bullying of Otsu, which seems to the students to be inevitable and amusing. The tour guide later takes a similar attitude towards the tourists, one of wanting to have revenge against them for no reason that makes sense to me. It’s also sometimes hard to wrap my mind around the male-female relationships presented in Japanese novels.
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Kristel wrote: "George, not sure what you mean by a link to the main listing?"In other GR groups I'm in they will have a link- where the cover of the current group reads are shown- that will take you to the discussion more directly than having to find it down below. I now think this group hasn't had that though. It would be next to where we show the link to "view activity" on the book. It isn't necessary, just more convenient. I probably should have just messaged you on this rather than putting it in my discussion, sorry. We can just message each other if you want to talk any more about it.
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In other GR groups I'm in they will have a link- where the cover of the current group reads are shown- that will take..."
okay, let me know if I did it right. I also added you as discussion leader.
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I found these questions that we can use for discussions.
Why does Mitsuko feel driven to find Ōtsu?
What does reincarnation mean, ultimately, in the novel, for both the characters and the author?
What does Numada hope to achieve by setting free the myna bird in the nature preserve?
What is the role of sacrifice in the novel? What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters?
What separates the characters who love India and those who dislike it, like Mrs. Sanjō?
What does Kiguchi hope to gain from his trip to India? Does he achieve it?
What does Isobe gain and lose during his trip to India?
Kristel wrote: "I found these questions that we can use for discussions..What is the role of sacrifice in the novel? What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters?."
For now I'll just respond to this question, actually to two questions in one response. I think sacrifice is a major theme in the novel, probably inspired by Jesus' execution. Numada buys a mynah bird and sets it free in a nature preserve as repayment for the mynah bird he believed died in his place when he had surgery years before. Otsu intervenes to help Sanjo and thereby makes a sacrifice.
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What does reincarnation mean, ultimately, in the novel, for both the characters and the author? being born again, whether this is reincarnation or coming to a place of spiritual enlightenment
What does Numada hope to achieve by setting free the myna bird in the nature preserve? he hopes to pay back the gift of life that the myna bird lost when Numada was sick in hospital and possibly dying
What is the role of sacrifice in the novel? What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters?
What separates the characters who love India and those who dislike it, like Mrs. Sanjō?
Mrs Sanjo saw the ugly and the dirty, the others saw the humanity and people.
What does Kiguchi hope to gain from his trip to India? Does he achieve it?
What does Isobe gain and lose during his trip to India?
Kristel wrote:: "George, not sure what you mean by a link to the main listing?"In other GR groups I'm in they will have a link- where the cover of the current group reads are shown- that will take..."
okay, let me know if I did it right. I.."
Yes, thanks. Sorry that I didn't ask more politely, it was an impulse.
Why does Mitsuko feel driven to find Ōtsu? I think Kristel has this right he was a challenge for her if he had not have joined a seminary after their breakup I don't think she would have cared to find him again.
What does reincarnation mean, ultimately, in the novel, for both the characters and the author? For some of the characters it is the literal sense of being born again in a different body, for others it is experiencing something new and paying back debts and for the author I think it is an exploration of different kinds of spirituality that are found across the world.
What does Numada hope to achieve by setting free the myna bird in the nature preserve? He is making amends/atoning for the bird he believes died in his place when he had surgery.
What is the role of sacrifice in the novel? What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters? In terms of the main characters my take is that each of them has had someone who sacrificed for them. Isobe had his wife who sacrificed her life looking after him, Numado had the Myna bird, Kiguchi had his friend in the army, Mitsuko had Otsu and Sanjo and his wife also had Otsu. India herself had Indira Gandhi.
What separates the characters who love India and those who dislike it, like Mrs. Sanjō? Those who love it see the spiritual those that hate it are seeing the "reality" of dirt and poverty.
What does Kiguchi hope to gain from his trip to India? Does he achieve it? Kiguchi is a complicated character he wants to give thanks for his life and to honour those who died in the war. In a way he does achieve this by passing on the story of the horrors to someone else so that his friend's sacrifice is not forgotten.
What does Isobe gain and lose during his trip to India? Isobe gains understanding about his life, his marriage and his wife and what he loses is his wife because he comes to understand that he may never find her again but that doesn't matter as he now understands her so she is with him.
What does reincarnation mean, ultimately, in the novel, for both the characters and the author? For some of the characters it is the literal sense of being born again in a different body, for others it is experiencing something new and paying back debts and for the author I think it is an exploration of different kinds of spirituality that are found across the world.
What does Numada hope to achieve by setting free the myna bird in the nature preserve? He is making amends/atoning for the bird he believes died in his place when he had surgery.
What is the role of sacrifice in the novel? What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters? In terms of the main characters my take is that each of them has had someone who sacrificed for them. Isobe had his wife who sacrificed her life looking after him, Numado had the Myna bird, Kiguchi had his friend in the army, Mitsuko had Otsu and Sanjo and his wife also had Otsu. India herself had Indira Gandhi.
What separates the characters who love India and those who dislike it, like Mrs. Sanjō? Those who love it see the spiritual those that hate it are seeing the "reality" of dirt and poverty.
What does Kiguchi hope to gain from his trip to India? Does he achieve it? Kiguchi is a complicated character he wants to give thanks for his life and to honour those who died in the war. In a way he does achieve this by passing on the story of the horrors to someone else so that his friend's sacrifice is not forgotten.
What does Isobe gain and lose during his trip to India? Isobe gains understanding about his life, his marriage and his wife and what he loses is his wife because he comes to understand that he may never find her again but that doesn't matter as he now understands her so she is with him.
Loved your comments Book. This was particularly well-said of the primary theme:"What does sacrifice mean to each of the main characters?"
" In terms of the main characters my take is that each of them has had someone who sacrificed for them. Isobe had his wife who sacrificed her life looking after him, Numado had the Myna bird, Kiguchi had his friend in the army, Mitsuko had Otsu and Sanjo and his wife also had Otsu. India herself had Indira Gandhi.
This is my review from January 2018I found this novel so much more powerful that Silence, which was about a group of Portuguese missionaries who were tortured in Seventeenth Century Japan. Endo, a practising Catholic, returns to the theme of forcing a Christian to deny one's faith, an idea which seems quaintly anachronistic now, but which he must feel strongly about to reintroduce it again. This time he tracks a group of Japanese on a pilgrimage to Buddhist Holy Sites in India. One of them had ignored his wife until her dying plea for him to look for her reincarnated self allowed Endo an opportunity to explore the idea of reincarnation. Another protagonist is a children's novelist with an affinity for animals who believes that a mynah bird sacrificed himself so that the author could live. Although he is not Christian the sacrifice of Jesus is mirrored in his story. A third pilgrim had suffered atrociously in Burma. His life was saved by a comrade who ate human flesh in order to survive (another Christian symbol) but became an alcoholic because his guilt was terrible. The fourth protagonist is a woman who believes she has no capacity for love. She seems to be following a student friend whom she had seduced and then dumped after forcing him to deny his faith. That he should also be in Varanasi, striving to live a meaningful life by helping the Untouchables carry bodies to the Ghats, and that he should die saving a clueless tour member who is insensitively trying to photograph the funeral pyres, stretches coincidence to the limits, but the whole works because it is a nifty way to talk about contrasting religious beliefs.
I listened to an Audible version, read by David Holt. He was a pleasure to listen to, my only carp being that when he spoke as the clueless Japanese tourist he used an English dialect which seemed forced to me, but that was a minor quibble. The Deep River of the title was the Ganges, of course, but it also was the river of humanity, flowing on, absorbing individuals ceaselessly despite their various beliefs and idiosyncracies.
It has been a couple of years since I read this book, but I remember that I found the writing beautiful. It is the story of 5 Japanese people who go on a spiritual pilgrimage to India to view Buddhist religious landmarks and holy sites. Each person is searching for an answer to something that troubles them in their life. A critical part of the book takes place in Varanasi, along the river Ganges.
