Constant Reader discussion
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University of Chicago Professors Cannot Be Trusted
Sara,I'm guessing the one thing you learned was professors don't necessarily teach the truth, as much as they teach their opinions of the truth - especially in English Lit. ;)
I'll join you in loving "Chazz's" ability to tell a story. What engrossed me in A Tale of Two Cities was how he brought life to history. When I read his works, I can actually hear the horses hooves. I read The Old Curiosity Shop last year and kept expecting to look up and see the cobbledstone streets of London outside my window ;).
The most wonderful thing is my son read his first Dickens' tale last year; A Christmas Carol, and came to me with excitement, wanting to discuss how much better the book is from the classic movie. To have an child in grade eight realize the value of an author who created a gendre of literature is invaluable.
Elizabeth,I read A Christmas Carol quite a while ago and don't remember it in comparison to my favorite adaptation--the 1958 version with Alastair Sim. I'll have to make a point to read it again as the season draws near.
My plan are to make it through all of Dickens within the next year, either in traditional book form or on audio (my brother turned me onto audiobooks--he sent me what we call A Tale of Two Kitties ("it was the kibble of times, it was the empty bowl of times"-yeah, sorry) and is going to loan me David Copperfield when he's done), not only for the sheer enjoyment but because I believe I can learn something as a writer.
Sara
LOL! I love "A Tale of Two Kitties". I'm a cat person - they go so good with a cup of tea and a good book - so I will have to remember that quote. Let me know when and what your next Dickens book is and I'll reread it. I would love to discuss them with you.
Sara, I absolutely agree with you about Dickens! For some reason, I avoided him until I came to CR and began my quest to read all of the classics that I neglected in my younger years. I do think you need to get into his rhythm, but, once you're there, it's a delight. Can you believe that I still haven't read A Tale of Two Cities? I need to correct that and an audiobook would be the perfect way to do it. Do you know who did the production of the one you listened to and who the reader was? If you liked it that much, I'd like to look for it.Also, my favorite Dickens is David Copperfield so I think you are in for a treat. It's not as complex as some of his later books, like Bleak House but the characters just crawled into my heart. I've read somewhere that Dickens said that he felt the closest to David and it has a lot of parallels to his own life. Don't read too much about Dickens' personal adult life though. He was a very complex man and not always likable. I've given up on always liking writers, artists, entertainers, etc. on a personal level however.
Writer & Reader wrote: "So, more years ago than I care to remember (okay, 29) I went to the University of Chicago for a year. I still question why, although when I look at my journal of the year, I certainly had a lot to..."Is this about professor's or can we talk about Dicken's here.
carol (akittykat) wrote: "Is this about professor's or can we talk about Dicken's here"Carol - :) I think we are talking about Dickens and leaving the professors to themselves. LOL!
Elizabeth--that would be great! I'll let you know.Barb, These productions (Tale, David Copperfield, Great Expectations) that my brother and I have plugged into are all by Tantor and read by Simon Vance. He's really quite good at doing all the social levels of English (and in this case, French) accents, although he does switch to the odd "woman" voice for the female characters.
Professors? We don't need no stinkin' professors! But I got you to look! :)
Sara
You sucked me in. Even though I didn't go to college.The only Dicken's I enjoyed the least was Bleak House. I had to watch the BBC peoduction to finally understand it. Dicken's is sexy.hahahahaha
carol (akittykat) wrote: "You sucked me in. Even though I didn't go to college.The only Dicken's I enjoyed the least was Bleak House. I had to watch the BBC peoduction to finally understand it. Dicken's is sexy.hahahahaha"
Production:Where is spell check Bah Humbug to spellin.
I'm with you on Bleak House, Carol. Only Dickens I couldn't finish.Oliver Twist is my favorite. The man could spin a tale, he could. And he had to, or else his newspaper readers wouldn't have kept coming back week after week.
I actually liked Bleak House, but it was the hardest Dickens to get through that I've read. My favorite is David Copperfield, too. I read Tale of Two Cities a long time ago. I think it would make a great Classics selection.
I'll keep that in mind for the next nomination round, Sherry.Sara
Oh shoot, Sara! Once again, my memory starts to worry me. I think we talked about this. I've listened to Simon Vance read before and was very impressed. Unfortunately, my library doesn't have that production. They do have the one by Recorded Books, read by Frank Muller, who was a favorite of mine. However, I don't think he could do the accents. I'm going to keep looking for Vance in my other libraries.
I love A Tale of Two Cities. I've read it three times. Among other superlatives is arguably the best opening paragraph in literature.
Sherry wrote: "I actually liked Bleak House, but it was the hardest Dickens to get through that I've read. My favorite is David Copperfield, too. I read Tale of Two Cities a long time ago. I think it would make a..."Yes to Tale Of Two Cities. Oh wait I'm too early for voting.
Sherry, I like that idea of A Tale of Two Cities for the Classics list as well.
Make sure you nominate it when the time comes. Can't vote for something unless it's on the list.
I'm not sure I could pick a favourite Dickens. Although, I have to agree with Sherry on Bleak House. I finished it only because I was taking an Eng. Lit. class on Victorian writers and had too. What astounds me about Dickens is, he was the first writer to bring the common and poor culture of England into writing. The social commentary aspect of his writing, in contrast to someone like Bronte, grabs my attention. I learned more about Victorian English culture through his works than all the history textbooks. ;)
I just made myself a word document as a reminder. Hopefully, I will remember that I made it.
A Tale of Two Cities was one of the earliest books I ever read, late reader that I was. It overwhelmed me, and it is no doubt part of the reason I fell in love with reading. I'd be glad to reread it again. But, I say that about so many books. :(
Barb, you gave me a chuckle. I have the same problem sometimes.
Bleak House is one of my two favorite Dickens - the other is Dombey and Son, which is a lot more ... approachable. I think that's the word I want.I like Dickens.
Sounds like the odds are good for a Dickens on the next list for Classics--Which is a good thing!
Sara
I read many of Dickens's books a few years back, and I loved every one of them. I do want to say that the BBC production of Bleak House that Carol mentioned is outstanding. If you haven't seen it, either put it on your Netflix list or run to Blockbuster. I can still see that old reprobate (can't remember his name, Barb) scowling at his niece and yelling, "Shake me up, Judy!"
Jane wrote: "I read many of Dickens's books a few years back, and I loved every one of them. I do want to say that the BBC production of Bleak House that Carol mentioned is outstanding. If you haven't seen it..."Smallweed.
That is a great production--I do want to read the book, though.Sara
Of all the books I read in high school, I think David Copperfield was my favorite. As Barb observed, the characters "just crawled into my heart." My first real sense of character came from Dickens, because they were so real, so human, and so recognizable. I would meet people or see strangers on the bus and instantly be reminded of a character from Dickens. Until I read A Tale of Two Cities. It had not occurred to me that a revolution in the name of fraternite, egalite, and liberte could go so horribly wrong. I have Great Expectations on my to-be-read shelf. Perhaps this winter will be the time for it.
Katy, I think Elizabeth and I are going to read/discuss Great Expectations together sometime soon--would you like to join us?Sara
It sounds as if your professor thought being a hack was a bad thing. As a small business counselor, I would like to go on record as saying that charging for what you do is no vice if you think what you do has value. And as a reader, I would like to say that there is no sin in entertaining people, something Dickens has been doing for over 170 years.My only complaint is about his serial murders of small innocent children and young ingenues.
He also has a tendency to paste on encores for characters that had been sent away in prior installments when he discovered people like them. Would Micawber really have managed to get hired by Uriah Heep? What would that job interview have been like?
Has anyone read "Our Mutual Friend?" It is my favorite. And interestingly, "A Tale of Two Cities" is the only Dickens I have ever started and not finished. I've read lots of others, liked Bleak House and Great Expectations, The Old Curiousity Shop, David Copperfield. So I don't know what it was about A Tale of Two Cities. About Micawber and Uriah Heep. The dishonest often take advantage of the desperate, don't they? If you want to find an employee who will do "anything" find someone who is in desperate circumstances.
Taking advantage of the desperate is one theme of Every Man Dies Alone, which I'm reading for the discussion that starts tomorrow. Yikes! More than 200 pages still to go ...
My copy of Every Man Dies Alone should arrive by tomorrow--I'll race to join in as soon as I can. Very much looking forward to it.Sara
Frankly, Tale of Two Cities is easily the worst Dickens I've ever read. Maybe he just didn't have a feel for historical fiction? He only wrote two of them.
wow! :) I just came on to say I finished Tale this morning and it was just a thrilling experience. Thrilling.
Tastes differ. It's makes for interesting and lively discussions.
i had a jesuit english phd whom i really admired but he was a bit of a snob. he told us in 63,1963,that although dickens was still very popular he was not nearly as important in lit as shakespeare. when i was teaching in an inner city jr high, cbs tv put on OLIVER TWIST and sent us the dialogue scripit of the play for students to read along. i thought at the time, ..these city kids won t be able to appreciate OLIVER. to my pleasure and amazement, they loved this and i got 3 or 4 classes from that script. i love dickens to this day for that experience and for his work. i don t like shakespeare,,too much mental work.lol. joe
I read Tale Of Two Cities for the first time this year. I was entralled by it. I have read many of Dicken's books,but this one really jumped out at me. It connected with the other books I had read. I have been on literary journey around the globe, for the last two years . I have read books from various authors from the 1800's-early 1900's. So It has been fun. If anyone knows of authors from South America, Australia, New Zealand during the 1800's-1900's let me know. So far I have read Europe,America,India,Mid East,& Hindukush.
Joe wrote: "i had a jesuit english phd whom i really admired but he was a bit of a snob. he told us in 63,1963,that although dickens was still very popular he was not nearly as important in lit as shakespea..."
Oh Shakespeare can be for me ,like medicine,taken in small doses
carol..what did you think of my teacher story ? i agree that shake could be taken in small doses and thus appreciated but i don t have the patience. maybe i will acquire it. i read sonnets by edna st vincent millay and really enjoy them. i know shake is the sonnet master and i have an interesting book of his sonnets which were hard to read but i should try again. thanks..joe
We often have a Shakespeare play on the Classics list. I enjoy reading the Folger's edition (they give definitions and history lessons on the left-hand side of the page, and Shakespeare on the right). Then while I read, I listen to an audio production of the play. This is the best way for me to experience Shakespeare except for going to Shakespeare plays. Once I get used to things, I'm enthralled.
I'm a big fan of Willie the Shake as well, although I don't know all the plays. Some I know very well, some a bit, some not at all.Somehow I've missed the discussions on his work. Have to pay more attention, really!
Sara
Joe wrote: "carol..what did you think of my teacher story ? i agree that shake could be taken in small doses and thus appreciated but i don t have the patience. maybe i will acquire it. i read sonnets by ed..."
Your professor seemed a bit of a literary snob. I was glad to see you had an open mind. Sounds to me like your students have a innovative teacher. I must read more of St. Vincent Millay. Someone should translate Shakespear into English.hehehehehehehe
In all fairness I do like ,Much ado about Nothing, Taming Of The Shrew ,Midsummers Night Dream and Richard The III.
the only plays i am familiar with are-JULIUS CEASAR ala marlon brando,,the movie,MID SUMMER NIGHT S DREAM, i enjoyed the parts i could understand. i know abit about HAMLET,MACBEITH. fell asleep during the mel gibson movies but should try them again. i know his works await me ,,so little time..so much to read. recently, i have discovered jm coetze and am enjoying his ELIZABETH COSTELLO,just checked out of our local lib DISGRACE and saw that it is an 08 movie which i wish to track down. joe
I grew up going to the Shakespear festival in Stratford, Ontario. The first one I remember was King Richard. I love taking classes and learning the history and meaning. Of course my favourites are the ones Carol listed. I have never studied MacBeth, nor have I seen it performed. It's one I would love to do.
Back to Dickens for a moment. My favorite English author. Have read my way through all at least five times and would say that Bleak House remains my favorite, with David Copperfield close behind. No one could tell a story like Dickens could.Sandy
Sherry wrote: "We often have a Shakespeare play on the Classics list. I enjoy reading the Folger's edition (they give definitions and history lessons on the left-hand side of the page, and Shakespeare on the righ..."Yes, I really like the Folger editions, for exactly that reason. Much easier than looking down to the bottom of the page for the teeny-tiny text of word meanings. I'm starting a Shakespeare class tomorrow, and got new Folger editons of both plays (Midsummer Night's Dream and Antony and Cleopatra), because I find them so much easier to read.
Never tried listening to an audio, though. Although I sometimes watch good movie versions afterwards, if any exist (and I can find them).
Would love to have seen the Judy Dench MacBeth!
Susanna wrote: "Sherry wrote: "We often have a Shakespeare play on the Classics list. I enjoy reading the Folger's edition (they give definitions and history lessons on the left-hand side of the page, and Shakespe..."Youtube has small clips. I love Judy Dench
Constant Reader
Books mentioned in this topic
Every Man Dies Alone (other topics)Dombey and Son (other topics)
A Tale of Two Cities (other topics)
Bleak House: Library Edition (other topics)
David Copperfield (other topics)
More...
Anyway, during that really tough year, an English (excuse me, Humanities) prof of mine made the following declaration: "Dickens. What a hack!" Now, at the time I'd probably only read Oliver Twist but I already knew the guy was dead wrong.
I'm now listening to a sparkling audiobook of A Tale of Two Cities. I didn't know much about the story, and I'm getting fairly close to finishing, and it is just riveting.
Now, I know from seeing the great old film adaptations of Great Expectations and others that sometimes old Chazz (hey, we're buds, I'm allowed!) does stuff the extra coincidence into the line (obscure reference: see "Folk Song Army"--Tom Lehrer) and the mostly happy endings come together pretty neatly, but my gawd, the guy could tell a story! It's really difficult to believe Dickens wrote it more than 150 years ago because it reads like a contemporary thriller (and love story).
I have Great Expectations audiobook read by the same guy all fired up and ready to go when I'm done with this one.
End of rave. We now return you to regular programming.
Sara