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I don't know what I want to write about!!!!
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Sometimes you just have to wait for your muse to show up and say "Hey! Look over here! I've got an idea!" And when that happens, you're really thankful. Because usually, muses aren't very nice to people. For example, last year, I couldn't write for like 6 months because nothing was coming. I couldn't even write the English essays I had to! But eventually an idea popped in my head and I said "Ahhhhh! an idea!"Go watch a lot of movies. Go read a lot of books. Go watch people walk around on the street (don't be creepy though). Just be, and something will come.
I forgot to add - you should try finishing what you've started!!
Emma wrote: "I forgot to add - you should try finishing what you've started!!"Thanks!
I should mention that I barely ever get started. Usually I'm in the beginning of the planning phase when these problems happen.
Also, sometimes, I do get an idea, but I feel like it isn't good enough, or it isn't very e\appealing to me or anybody else. =/
I feel that I should place my story in a fantasy world, or any world built from scratch, but then I would constantly get this nagging feeling at the back of my head that it should be the placed in the real world instead, even though it would mean not allowing me to use certain concepts and ideas.
This sounds sort of contradictory, but.... No matter what you think you should do, don't do it. What i mean is, if you think you should be planning it out, DONT. Just start writing. you can come up with a plot later. First drafts usually are horrible and then as you revise and revise and revise they get better and better, ever so slowly. I wrote something once and it had no plot and it was completely... I don't even know what it was, it was terrible. But then I revised and started making it better, sooooo slowly.
Emma wrote: "This sounds sort of contradictory, but.... No matter what you think you should do, don't do it. What i mean is, if you think you should be planning it out, DONT. Just start writing. you can come..."How did you plan it? I heard that there was a style of writing where you find inspiration and then start writing an outline (create a plot, characters, setting, etc.).
How do you stick with an idea and not feel tempted to scrap it or deviate away from it? I mean, I have an idea for a dark fantasy story that takes place in a fantasy world, but the thing that keeps making me scrap it is wondering whether or not I should do something in the real world instead.
Sometimes I think I'm too open minded... @_@
Don't always scrap every idea you get. Write a little. If you feel like it's not going according to plan, leave it where you put it. When you come back to it days, weeks, months or even years from now, you might find that actually have something going for you. It's frustrating, huh? I know how you must feel.Try asking yourself these questions:
1. What does your protagonist want?
2. What unexpected consequences — directly related to the protagonist's goal-oriented actions — ramp up the emotional energy?
3. What details from the setting, dialog, and tone help you tell the story?
4. What morally significant choice does your protagonist make at the climax of the story?
I find this set of questions very helpful. I have the same problem, like everyday, Jonathan. Try to make a list, it doesn't have to be anything formal, just little details that can probably help you formulate a plot.
From what you're saying, Johnathan, I think it might help you immensely if you read more and read a variety of types of books, making sure you give yourself a good dose of the masters of literary fiction. Find a few authors who blow you away and read every word you can find that they've written, especially if they talk about writing. Think about what you're reading. Go back and read it again, this time looking at the devices they've used, subtext, etc.Don't copy, but learn from them. Part of what you'll learn is what you're going to be writing — and that may surprise you. F'rinstance, I was certain I was going to write character driven fantasy in the vein of Patricia McKillip, Patricia Keneally-Morrison, Patrick Rothfuss (and I may yet). . . but NOOOOO . . . here I am writing character drivenmodern gothic/magical reality/Poe-sian horror/trans-genre (not trans-gender) stories.
And reading every word Jack Cady ever wrote that I can get my paws on.
Renee wrote: "From what you're saying, Johnathan, I think it might help you immensely if you read more and read a variety of types of books, making sure you give yourself a good dose of the masters of literary f..."Cool! How much would you recommend reading? A few years ago, I came up with an idea for a dark fantasy story, set in a fantasy world that draws from a variety of genres (mystery/detective/occult detective/weird fiction etc.), but then I end up scrapping it time after time because I wonder whether or not I should write something that takes place in the real world instead.
I think you're right. One of my problems is that I copy too much.
Katrina wrote: "Don't always scrap every idea you get. Write a little. If you feel like it's not going according to plan, leave it where you put it. When you come back to it days, weeks, months or even years from ..."Thanks!
Another problem I have is that, while I want to write under genres like dark fantasy and horror, I feel that I have to be as realistic and believable as possible, which is hard because of how difficult it is to follow that sort of logic. That's why I feel it is better to create a fantasy world, so that I can be as realistic, and yet surreal, at the same time.
Read as much as you can squeeze out time for. Never go anywhere without a book. Read while you have lunch. Fall asleep reading at night. Then try to recall something of your dreams!Write character biographies. They won't be complete at first, you'll add onto them as you learn more about your characters, but a bio will help them come to life for you. Then they'll tell you their stories. They may not be the stories you had planned, but they'll be better because they'll be real.
Renee wrote: "Read as much as you can squeeze out time for. Never go anywhere without a book. Read while you have lunch. Fall asleep reading at night. Then try to recall something of your dreams!Write characte..."
Sure thing! I'll start focusing more on character biographies and less time on the world.
And as far as the realistic thing goes, yeah, you're going to be doing at least as much research to write fantasy as you would anything else.To pull of fantasy, it has to seem more real than reality. You have to stick to whatever rules your fantasy world operates by, and they have to make sense — in your world. If not, it isn't believable. Fantasy has to be more realistic than reality or it winds up being nothing more than more derivative crap.
(and yeah, that was purposely repetitive ;-) )
Anne Rice made a remark in an interview that was a marvel of clarity: she said that when she wrote "Interview With The Vampire" she sat down to write the vampire story she wanted to read but had never found.
Renee wrote: "Anne Rice made a remark in an interview that was a marvel of clarity: she said that when she wrote "Interview With The Vampire" she sat down to write the vampire story she wanted to read."Interesting. I often said that to myself, whether it came to watching a movie or reading the book--the problem at the time was what it would be about. I might use that idea I came up with a few years ago.
I see what you mean by making a fantasy world look and feel realistic. There must be rules to both the natural world and (if there is one) the supernatural world--otherwise, it would be all over the place.
Jonathan (sorry this took a while) ---You don't have to have a plot when you start. Just start writing.
Emma wrote: "Jonathan (sorry this took a while) ---You don't have to have a plot when you start. Just start writing."
Don't worry about it! ;)
If you don't have a plot when you start writing, the wouldn't it go on and on to the point where it becomes too long and you may or may not write yourself into a wall? What would you say about a person's way of starting to write is by creating an outline of an overall story, and when it comes to writing the book, you're following that same outline?
It's gotta be the OCD lol
If you want to write a plot, go right ahead. But sometimes the plot comes after you actually create your characters. Just have them go to the store or something. Then it'll come.But if you want to write a plot - go write a plot! I usually come up with a plot, but I don't write an outline for every chapter.
Well, I think I'll follow your advice and create my characters BEFORE creating a plot. However, I should probably create my world before creating my characters--that way, I can write out each profile for my characters so they can look and feel like they came from said world.
Your characters — if you listen to them — will tell you a lot about their world (it is their world, not yours) that you'd never know otherwise.I've yet to write anything I thought was worth a damn that stuck to any sort of plot outline. At most, a few of the premises remain, but often the story winds up being something entirely different than what I'd thought I was planning.
Some people do very well with a rough outline, some with a more detailed one, and then there are the pantsers, people like me who fly by the seat of their pants. There is no one right way to write. The trick is finding out what the right way is for YOU, and that can take a lot of trial and error, but every one of those trials will make you a better writer in the long run. There is no such thing, for a writer, as time wasted on a story that didn't go anywhere. Every one of those makes you better.
Renee wrote: "Your characters — if you listen to them — will tell you a lot about their world (it is their world, not yours) that you'd never know otherwise.I've yet to write anything I thought was worth a dam..."
I want to thank you for everything you've told me! ;)
I've always thought that there was some metaphorical formula that tells writers how to tell a story, when really, everybody has their own distinct way when it comes to finding a process of their own.
You're welcome Jonathan, very welcome.Talking this through with you clarified some thoughts of my own and now I've got the bones of a future blog/article on the subject. I'll use it when I launch "The Black Dog Dialogues," so you've helped me, too. :D
Renee wrote: "You're welcome Jonathan, very welcome.Talking this through with you clarified some thoughts of my own and now I've got the bones of a future blog/article on the subject. I'll use it when I launch..."
You're welcome! I'm glad to know that my personal foibles can help others! XD
Write your story that you want to see in print. Write for youtself. If you worry about auidence you will never finish. Create your world and characters with as much detail as possible. You will be researching a lot. Some of your notes might not appear in your novel but will still make an impact by making your universe realistic.
Hi Jonathan,I've read through the conversation and I think you've had some good advice. I'd like to toss some more your way. Some in the form of questions.
I'd start here by asking why you want to be a writer? That, in itself, could hold a key to why you're struggling. Do you just feel you have stories in you that you need to tell? Are you expecting fame and fortune? Do you just love the craft of writing? Are you wanting to emulate some literary hero of yours?
In reading the conversation, I get the sense that you think writing should be done in one certain way and then when that doesn't work, you walk away from a project. I get the sense that you feel that in order to write you have to create whole worlds and the stories must be epic with intricate plots and everything must be planned to the last detail before you can jot your first word of the story. And there has to be all these rules to keep everything realistic. If I'm reading this correctly, then I would say STOP! The really cool thing about writing is, there are few hard and fast rules. I wonder if you're getting bogged down by a process that is not necessary nor realistic. Everyone writes in a different way and you need to find your own process. You can't mirror what you think you're supposed to do or what others do. I used to do that and it's frustrating. I cannot stand outlines. They're too restricting. I cannot stand rigid planning of stories. Rules in a supernatural / fantasy story will fall into place when they become necessary.
What I often do nowadays is start with some small idea and see where it goes. I'm working on a novel right now. All I had to go on when I started was a man in a laundromat meets a woman who begins to do card tricks for him. That alone takes about half a page of the full story. The rest is fleshing out as I work on it. I recently wrote a short story called "Mr. Meeker", simply because I challenged myself to draw a flying saucer and make it look like a blurry photograph, then I liked the picture and decided it needed a story. I'm not saying this technique will work for you, but it's worth a shot. Start small, as small as you can. One character, one scene, one minor plot point and go from there. I'm just suggesting it as it seems that maybe one problem you're having is just being overwhelmed by the weight of lofty epic stories that require creation of whole worlds to fulfill.
Another thing - if you start a story and in your head you think it's going to be a 30,000 page epic fantasy that will take volumes to tell and years to write, but you end up writing three pages and get bored - DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP! This may not be a bad thing. In fact, this could be a great thing. It could be an indication that you've had a growth spurt as a writer and whatever it is you were working on is no longer good enough to continue with. Maybe you're recognizing that somethng you start is immature writing and you don't want to keep doing it. If so, that's a very good thing. Learn from it and move on.
K.P. wrote: "Create your world and characters with as much detail as possible. You will be researching a lot. Some of your notes might not appear in your novel but will still make an impact by making your universe realistic..."I have tried to do NANOWRIMO... Just about every year. But the one thing that gets me is the word count. I need to be able to count words that are even notes to myself. I think that writing about writing to get my novel some place other than blocked is also part of the process. But I am not sure, because I am like Jonathan and have a dream of being a writer that seems elusive. The more concrete (rules) that is spread the more it feels like school and that makes me freeze up. But if it is too loosey goosey I feel that i might not get where i am desiring to go.
What would I like in a novel? Or the novel experience to be for me? I kinda like Salinger's relationship with Holden as the model to what being a novelist is like. I think Holden was a character that Salinger could identify with, because their are times when he took pages of this novel with him to war on D-day....like you might take a charm or ring someone gave you to give you courage...or to make you feel that person understands because he lived it with you.
But characters are supposed to not be identified with the author. So last night I was dreaming that I had met a girl that I wanted to be friends with. Now that interest me as a way to create a character.
I would say that such a start would be a character driven story.
So then there is a chracter arc (a rule) ...which reminds me of Lenardo knowing about perspective but not always chosing to follow those rules. I guess the character arc is kinda the same way...otherwise it feels kinda like a formula and that would bore me. I mean maybe like people the protagonist never does grow up. Sometimes your best friend just does something that messes them up in your idealized view of them and the relationship can't remain the same. It becomes real. But i don't want to mess them up...so maybe that would make it a plot driven story.
So in a way even writing this has me thinking about my charcter and i could probably plug in a few things for her after writing this, but the point is that i am much further along after writing this in developing empathy with my character than i would be saying...ok i need a character: " 5'4, I think with brown hair and brown eyes." Because i am developing more of an emotional feeling for the character that I want to create...or that is "surfacing". Yes, I see that I write and ocean of words so that the plot and charcters can rise to the surface. Otherwise really I am just staring at the blank page.
So my question is: "Does this look like writing to you?"
....
If not could you give a short example of what "starting" looks like.
Thqnk you!
Dwayne wrote: "Hi Jonathan,I've read through the conversation and I think you've had some good advice. I'd like to toss some more your way. Some in the form of questions.
I'd start here by asking why you want ..."
Just got through reading your advice and thought that you were speaking my language. One thing that i found interesting is that Salinger wrote as a form of meditation. He mostly wrote short stories for the New Yorker. He wrote every day but he didn't get a lot published....what was he writing? I kinda think that he was writing words so that his characters and plots would rise up to the surface and become more visible.
Overthinking can lead to analysis paralysis which is the indecision to make a decision..TRUE!!
Sometimes you need to just free write or read a variety of different literature to gain a sense of perspective on what subconsciously you're drawn to -- as an invisible magnetic force.
I am a planner. When I write fiction, I do character profiles, timelines, free-writes, etc. When I write poetry, though, it's more often spontaneous, caused by a sudden burst of creativity. However, I think the best method is somewhere in the middle. If you work best with a plan, then some planning is good, but too much often stifles your own creative flow.
Cosmic wrote: "Just got through reading your advice and thought that you were speaking my language. One thing that i found interesting is that Salinger wrote as a form of meditation. He mostly wrote short stories for the New Yorker. He wrote every day but he didn't get a lot published....what was he writing? I kinda think that he was writing words so that his characters and plots would rise up to the surface and become more visible. "I had forgotten what I said so I read it over again.
In connection to what you said here, I will mention again the novel with the Laundromat. It is not done. I have not worked on it in months. It's brewing for a while. I have a lot of projects sitting on simmer. Why? I am doing what you suggest Salinger did. I write most every day, but a lot of it may never see publication. I just write and see what comes of it. If I fall in love with it, it gets finished and published. If not, it simmers a while until I can get back to it with fresh eyes and see what it needs.
I have the same problem as in not knowing what to write about but my brain is yelling at me to write something. So sometimes I just write lists. Random lists. When I keep things short, but keep them coming, eventually words form sentences. Sentences into paragraphs... and things I didn't even know were wanting to be written are all over the page. It helps to hand write things too instead of always doing everything on the computer. It is nice for writers to connect with words through pen/cil and paper. It is also just a beautiful and lost art in our world of technology and I think it is technology that often hinders and distracts us from out creative flow.
I've always worked in the opposite direction. First I have a clear idea of the story I want to tell, and then I figure out all the details.The tale is the objective, everything else is just the means by which to achieve it.
This has served me well so far.
V.W. wrote: "I've always worked in the opposite direction. First I have a clear idea of the story I want to tell, and then I figure out all the details.The tale is the objective, everything else is just the m..."
Ok when you say you have a story to tell...does this mean a topic like war? Or love? Or does it mean something that like woman runs into old romance and it upsets her applecart? Or child gets cancer? (These are themes but a little more draw out) or is about agendas, conspiracies, climate, buzz words that are in the news...guns? Financial crisis?
How would that build a story?
I heard that it was easy to draw a picture you just keep adding lines (a paraphrase of Miles Davis) I can see this is also his approach to music to...but of course within a set of experiences called practice.
I have experience drawing so i understand that discipline. I understand avoidance as well. I have advised people that had difficulty starting something "new" because of fear was to start where they were, begin with what you know how to draw. If it is eyes then begin there. I new a lady that always started her people by drawing their eyes.
Now how could someone apply this to same advise to writing? Do you have an example? Something really short?
When I was 14 I wrote a poem and one of the verses went..
To read a book,
To face the front,
To be quiet,
But to be a dunce,
These are the rules that are laid down
To keep the convicts from running round.
I started with a theme....school is a prison.
But this is written analytically and is not a story.
I have issues with being very analytical...it gets in my way of writing...but if I could harness the clarity I receive perhaps it could become an asset.
I am thinking that Kurt Vonnegut wrote a story around the atomic bomb in Cat's Cradle. So this might be an example of someone starting with an idea and then creating a story around it.
You know what is interesting is to look at the beginnings of a artist notebook. To even look at the rough draft of a painting and compare it till the finish product. Seems like we doing really have that when it comes to writers. But maybe you know some examples of this?
One thing i thought would be fun was to start a "story thread." Where you would start with a sentence and then someone would copy it and add another sentence. Organically grow a story.
Well i guess one will never draw anything without putting pencil to paper and so it must be when it comes to telling a story.
Sometimes i think i want to write a long story called a novel and i have not written a story. So i thought i would start with something "simple". I thought the simplest thing would be a fairy tale. Actually someone that was leading Nanowrimo in my area told us how her husband and her would challenge each other to tell a fairy tale on their long trip to Portland, Oregon. They had to come up with two parts ...like Jack has to .....to get the Princess. Or "the Princess looks into a mirrored pool of water and sees....". So her Nanowrimo challenge was to write a 1600 word fairy tale every day of November. I was kinda excited about this...i thought about creating a stack of prompts that would create the character, the obstacle and the goal...or some similar idea that her husband and she had created. I was hoping that starting off small like this could give me the courage to write something more complex. So i started listening to fairy tales to help me get a feel for there structure. This is really as far as i have gotten.
Ok does anything come to mind that reminds you of when you first started writing....even if it is grade school.
Cosmic wrote: "V.W. wrote: "I've always worked in the opposite direction. First I have a clear idea of the story I want to tell, and then I figure out all the details.The tale is the objective, everything else ..."
To run with your art analogy, I think you are still focused on the "how" and not the "what". Before you start drawing, can you see your subjects face in your mind? Not a generic human face, but a real person. The way the eyes look at you, the smile or frown, the fall of the hair, and so on. You can't draw anything unless you already have a vision of how the result should look like.
The same goes for stories. I'm not talking about a topic. I'm talking about the whole story. Imagine you are with a friend, sitting comfortably after dinner. And you say, "I heard this story once, about ...." In your mind would you be thinking about the style, the topic, etc.? Of course not. You already have an idea of the entire story, how it starts, what happens during the tale, and how it ends. Not in step by step detail, more of a mental bullet point.
Perhaps you could try writing very short stories. Just 100 words. Exactly. No more, no less. Tell a story in 100 words. They are called Drabbles. Here's one I wrote recently for a drabble thread in GR. Learn to tell a story. Do it over and over (with different tales of course). Story telling is an art. Not a science. Focus less on the technique, and on what you want to create.
Back to drawing, you don't draw a face by starting with the eyes. You start with the outline and proportions. To do that you have to have an idea of how you want the end result to look.
NIGHT HUNT
Darkness mocks the eyes. Faint outlines of trees like witches' claws. Clouds of frozen breath. Echoing silence tickles the ear. The comforting weight of shield and blade in cold hands. Alone, but not. Death lurking in the blackness.
One step, then two. Leaves rustle on the ground. Is it the wind? Spectral shadows dance half seen. Movement in the dark. Shield rises and body turns, heart thundering loud. Nearly too late. Shining steel whispers by. Warm blood tickles the cheek, just below the eye. Body hunches, thighs tense. A grunt of effort as sword point strikes. I live, another dies.
V.W. wrote: "Perhaps you could try writing very short stories. Just 100 words. Exactly. No more, no less. Tell a story in 100 words. They are called Drabbles. Here's one I wrote recently for a drabble thread in GR. Learn to tell a story. Do it over and over (with different tales of course). Story telling is an art. Not a science. Focus less on the technique, and on what you want to create.Back to drawing, you don't draw a face by starting with the eyes. You start with the outline and proportions. To do that you have to have an idea of how you want the end result to look.
..."
I think this is what i was looking for! Thank you.
Often when i am in the car i think of very short kind of monologues. I think that might be an interesting story and then i freeze and think yeah but....
I need to just complete a lot of 100 word stories!
That is just where I am. I could do that!
By the way i really liked your example. I could ask how long that took...but that isn't fair.
My grandmother was an oil painter. She had a painting that she did if a single daisy. She had it priced at 400.00. A man came along and asked her how long it took her to paint that. She told him 40 years.
Ok thank you for the starring point. I will begin tonight.
Ok I tried writing a Dabble. I wrote it without stopping for a 108 words. It turned out better than I was writing it in my head. Not great art but i was entertained by the act of it.She called him twenty years later. "Remember I was your first wife."
"I never believed that," He answered directly.
"That's ok I am not trying to give you a guilt trip." He wondered what she was trying to give him.
For her it was the challenge to find him. She had tried several times and the search lead no where. You would think he didn't live in the modern world of social media. She wonders how he manages to keep away from it being a salesman. But today she did find him. And he sounded just like he did 25 years ago only he was a bit more condescending than she had remembered him.
Cosmic wrote: "Ok I tried writing a Dabble. I wrote it without stopping for a 108 words. It turned out better than I was writing it in my head. Not great art but i was entertained by the act of it.She called h..."
See, so you can write. :)
As for my drabble, it only took me about half an hour in total, but as you say, I've had lots of experience in writing.
I think i will make "Dabbles" my goal for Nanowrimo. I just need to write 16 a day.Out of that fodder I maybe able to expand my writing.
I actually created visuals to help give myself prompts, so this fits in nicely with that plan.
I wrote another one this morning.
Hey, guys!I have an idea for Nanowrimo for this year, and I know that most people already finished plotting, but I just decided to do it. Any ideas or advice based on how you guys plot? I've never plotted a story before.
I haven't written in a long time, hoping to redeem myself!
Thanks!
I am a aspiring author in the midst of my first novel so I don't have a lot of experience. I have dabbled in writing since I was a teen, but never set out to write an actual novel.I have watched a lot of interviews with famous novelists to see how they started, get inspired etc. Just the other day I watched one with Stephen King, he mentioned when he was in his early 20's he started to write Under the Dome but he decided not to continue with it. Many years later he decided to write it and look where it is now.
What I have been doing since I have so many ideas in my head about different plots. I just type out a basic plot outline for them and save them in a Future Novel Folder. Then when I am done with the one I am writing now I can go back and see what other ones I want to write about. If another idea pops into my head while I am writing this one, reading a book, watching a movie or even on my way to work. I put them in the folder as well. I have about 10 in there so far. If I write them all or not, that is another story lol
Everyone is different and takes a different approach, (or tries alternative approaches) when writing. Freewriting for instance or taking an entire 'break' to gain inspiration/ ideas from what you might encounter when not glued to the computer screen. At times it is good to push through a 'block' and keep to a routine and/or plot outline. I am currently 'taking a break' as just going round-and-round in circles has lead to stress and so I know when I decide to go back, hopefully rejuvenated, then I will be more focused and productive as to generating ideas + moving forward.. this is just me at the moment!
Having too many ideas can often be worse than having none. You're barely halfway through a project when an interesting character, or scene, or something you've seen elsewhere takes you off on a new project.So what do you do? You could just embrace the pleasure of writing lots of half-projects and being happy with your story starters. You could write shorter pieces that you can complete. Or, get somebody to act as your boss and timekeeper, who checks upon you and your word-count and bullies you into completing it (that's my wife's job!)
If you want to try some short-story/flash fiction writing you could try our blog for inspiring writers: https://writtenbyyou.wordpress.com
There are times when I think I do, but then I scrap it when something new comes along, and then I scrap that, too, when another thing comes along.
Sometimes I am highly influenced by fiction that I read/watch, so that constantly ruins my concentration and motivation as well!
This has been an endless cycle and I can't break away from it! What should I do?