Rutherfurd, Edward ; New York ; Informal Buddy Read ; Start Date 1 Jan 2015

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Finished Love pg 408

The War of Independence - (view spoiler)[ I'm liking the contrast between family members on different sides. Despite their differences in ideology they still love each other. Really interesting that Benjamin Franklin and his son were on different sides!

Oh, and Abigail and Grey didn't end up together. Boo. But I guess that is the realism of war and what it does to people. (James making him promise to spare his life if he didn't marry his sister. I wonder if he really knew that Grey had survived. (hide spoiler)]

[Stacey]

Finished New Amsterdam-- pg 50. Hoping to get a good portion of New York finished tonight. I'm excited that I have already learned--basically--where the names of the boroughs came from. :)

(view spoiler)[ Excited to see how Dirk's daughter plays into the story--she seems fascinating. Jury is still out on Tom--he sounded kind of fun in his first section, kind of an ass in his second. (hide spoiler)]

Enjoying it so far.

[Skandia]

Karen wrote: "I've finished "Montayne's Tavern 1758" and "London"(up to page 223 in my version: New York)

(view spoiler)[I found the London chapter and a few chapters around it pretty slow. Maybe too much England's and America's politics talk.
James getting married in a rush in England is pretty interesting development, though. I wonder if he returns home now. (hide spoiler)]

[Stacey]

Finished New York and the Boston Girl last night. I wasn't expecting quite so much jumping between characters. (view spoiler)[ I'm a little sad that we get to see so little of each character's story--but I guess it would be impossible to cover that big a time span if we did. And obviously I was wrong about Dirk's daughter being interesting as we never really saw her again. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

I don't think the characters are as engaging as some in other Rutherfurd books. (view spoiler)[ I also wondered about the purpose of Kate the cousin from Boston. I thought she was being introduced as a major part of the story, but no (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Skandia, Stacey & Lisa:
Yes I agree it feels like we get to know a character and Boom! gone and we are down a generation... But I do like seeing the family through the generations and how I may think someone is an ass, but then really like his grandchild (or vice versa) it is kind of like going through a time machine of a family tree!

[Kay Kay]

Karen wrote: "I've finished the first part "New Amsterdam 1664" (up to page 59 in my version: New York)

I wasn't expecting it to go back so far in time, but I guess the book is so huge that makes..."
(view spoiler)[ I was surprised too. Especially since he caved once. When he got back to his wife I thought he gave her a good reason! She couldn't really argue. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

Karen wrote: "Karrie wrote: "Wow! You guys are well traveled! I am up to the second chapter and I am loving the book. It is hard to put down. I am glad that the author relates the history of New York through t..."

Yes. It must have been beautiful country before the city was there!

[Stacey]

I finished The Philadelphia Girl and Montmayne's Tavern. (view spoiler)[ I'm assuming the whole "your son never came to meet my son" issue becomes a problem, although it seems a little overdone at this point. That whole chapter to me seemed a little wasted. (hide spoiler)]

Karen, I agree. I do like seeing the families grow and move onto different generations, it's just different for me to have characters come and go so quickly! It is an interesting way to relay the history though.

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

The Draft Pg 568

(view spoiler)[ Interesting to get another perspective of the Civil War apart from the Battles. I had no idea about the Draft Riots in NYC.

And I liked the fact that we found out that Solomon must have survived at least to have a child, his Grandson Hudson turning up again. Clever way to link the generational story. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

@Stacey - Yes I think you're right and that chapter will become more important later. Unfortunately I had to go back to work this week (darn it!) so I haven't read much further yet

[Skandia]

I'm stuck in 1770-s. (view spoiler)[All this war between Patriots and Loyalists is not that interesting to read and I do feel like New York, Philadelphia, Boston were more of independent colonies or like city-states in Italy and didn't fight like united front for independence.
I'm not familiar with US history, so all this is new to me and doesn't have much context. (hide spoiler)]

I'm not as invested in characters in this book as I was in Rutherfurd's Paris book and so far, I must agree, it's weaker than the previous book I read.

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

I agree, Skandia. There was a feeling of more of a connection with the characters in the other books I've read, Dublin and London.

Moonlight Serenade Pg 588

This has been the best chapter in the book so far for me (view spoiler)[ The perspective of the Civil War by photographs and finding out what happened to Hudson Rivers, a casualty of a War supposed to bring him freedom. (hide spoiler)]

[Stacey]

Oh my. I'm sloooowly working my way through The Loyalist, but its some tough going. It just seems like a lot of facts thrown together but the characters aren't a part of it like they were in earlier parts of the book. I'm not even sure that makes sense, but I feel more like I'm reading a history book now rather than a story with history in it.

It is presenting the opposite side of American history from what I learned. The way we are taught in the States is that the Sons of Liberty were the brave, courageous men who stood up for the colonies and lead the charge for freedom (cue music here). So far in this book they are just a bunch of grumpy angry men starting fires. So that's interesting.

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Empire State - End Pg 896.

On the homeward stretch now. The last chapter actually was the most I've felt connected to the characters, in particular the Carusos , an Italian family.

It is an interesting perspective, Stacey and I probably get a different one too being Australian and only learning the basics of American history throughout school. (view spoiler)[ Especially the chapters on Lincoln whom Rutherfurd portrays as not really the total abolitionist that I imagined. His main agenda was the preservation of the Union not the freeing of slaves. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Stacey wrote: "Oh my. I'm sloooowly working my way through The Loyalist, but its some tough going. It just seems like a lot of facts thrown together but the characters aren't a part of it like they were in earl..."

lol! That is a bit of a tough chapter. Of course the "winning" side always tells history in a slightly colourful way :) The end of that chapter is quite interetsing though, as is the next one

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

"Vanessa" Up to page 298

(view spoiler)[ Ah, we finally see what James was up to in London and why his wife isn't with him. I love that the actual version of events is so different from what his parents had assumed. I also find it interesting that James has decided to be a patriot. I wonder what that will mean for the relationship with his father?
(hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Karen wrote: ""Vanessa" Up to page 298

Ah, we finally see what James was up to in London and why his wife isn't with him. I love that the actual version of events is so different from what his parents had assu..."

(view spoiler)[ They are actually very civilised about it, nearly agreeing to disagree about that but still being a loving family otherwise. I think that would be rare under the circumstances. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Brooklyn - End Pg 894.

A very poignant chapter. (view spoiler)[ No judgement but how religion can divide a family and change people's life decisions and even who they can love. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Karen wrote: ""Vanessa" Up to page 298
..."

(view spoiler)[
Yes, I was amazed that after he heard what she said he didn't do anything for over a year!
(hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Finished Love pg 408

..."

(view spoiler)[
Yes, this is an interesting way to see the war from two sides. I also wondered if he knew that Albion survived, or if he just didn't enquire too hard. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

I finished it. Overall I enjoyed it but I thought the last third of the book was definitely the best. The last chapter The Towers I found very poignant as it was history that we all lived through. (My sister lived in Greenwich St, NYC at the time, thankfully she got through it.)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Just finished Crystal palace 1853

Interesting to have another family come into the story. (view spoiler)[ I do wonder where it is going with Mary, although I suspect Sean will become the more important character. I wonder why her dating Nelson was included? It seems a bit redundant now, especially as the story jumps a number of years in the next chapter. I can only guess it will all come about soon enough (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Moonlight Sonata 1871

(view spoiler)[ I'm a little annoyed that Hudson's killing was just thrown in there as a line to the story of a photo. I am enjoying the book, but the very short chapters and time jumping are a little jarring sometimes ; I would like more info on certain things (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

I just finished The Patriot. I love this book! It is exactly what I hoped for, good historical information that lends to a wonderful story with great characters!

[Kay Kay]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Just finished chapter London pg 223.

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about his wife having met Ben Franklin previously. It is just a little convenient. (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

Karen wrote: "I've finished "The Boston Girl 1735" (up to page 167 in my version: New York)


Interesting how the time period jumped significantly. I guess we are going to start seeing the differe..."

I worried about that too!

[Kay Kay]

Stacey wrote: "Finished New York and the Boston Girl last night. I wasn't expecting quite so much jumping between characters. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I really was interested in her too. I think that could have been an interesting branch of the family to explore. (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

The Patriot
(view spoiler)[I am really excited to see how the relationship between John Master and his son James play out. Will John get out of New York? What will happen to Abby? Will James decide to stay? So much tension, I must go read! (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

I just found an interesting quote in Vanessa
(view spoiler)[ "The British are angry. When people are angry, any insult will do; and prejudice is magnified into a cause." In the book this is attributed to Ben Franklin as he talks to James Master. It made me stop and think. When I get angry, I do become more easily insulted for sure. I wonder if I have ever magnified that into a "cause". Hmmmm (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

@Karrie

I'm glad you are enjoying it! I love your questions around "The Patriot"... makes it sound like a soap opera serial teehee
I really liked the chapter "Vanessa" because it makes you rethink everything you assumed in the previous chapters. Good quote that you selected and I think it is true. Anger magnifies so many other emotions and can remove logic

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Old England 1896

(view spoiler)[
I've really enjoyed Mary's character and I like how she has become a "respectable" woman and staying at the Master's house a few nights a week. Clearly soon we are going to jump time and she will be out of the picture again which makes me a little sad ;)
(hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "The Draft Pg 568

..."

I didn't know (view spoiler)[ about the draft riots either, it was really interesting. And how people's hatred can extend to an entire race of people out of fear. The mob going for the children in the orphanage was especially sickening
(hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Karen wrote: "Old England 1896


I've really enjoyed Mary's character and I like how she has become a "respectable" woman and staying at the Master's house a few nights a week. Clearly soon we are going to jump..."

(view spoiler)[ That was one thing that was a bit inconsistent in the book. The fate of some of the characters. Mary was a major character and she just sort of faded into old age. It wasn't even mentioned when she passed on. I would have preferred some definite type of closure instead of assuming nature took its course. (hide spoiler)]

[Stacey]

Hooray! I have finally made it to the end of the Revolutionary War! I don't think I knew what a mess that was for so long, and how much the States really shouldn't have won. :)

(view spoiler)[Sadly, while I like the characters well enough, I was thinking during the war that surely one of them would die, and I found I didn't really care which one it was. I usually like to be a little more attached to my characters. I didn't even feel the sting of the non-HEA for Abigail and Grey--and I LOVE a good romance. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

lol Stacie

And, yes, I think that is a downside of the jumps in time. It is hard to get attached to characters. Or when you do, they suddenly disappear

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

@Lisa
I agree with you (view spoiler)[ especially the killing of Hudson. I was really sad how that was just mentioned as a sideline (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Empire State 1917 Up to page 836

(view spoiler)[
This was really interesting watching the collapse of the stock market from a ficticious character's POV. I liked that the Italian got out and listened to his heart. And what about Rose?! Sneaky old devil. Strangely enough I'm glad she did it, eventough legally the money shouldn't be theirs (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Empire State - End Pg 896.

On the homeward stretch now. The last chapter actually was the most I've felt connected to the characters, in particular the Carusos , an Italian family.

It is an inte..."

I completely agree. It is interesting being an observer. I guess I know as much about American history as the next non-American, and I did have the same presumption about Lincoln as you did.

[Kay Kay]

Stacey wrote: "Hooray! I have finally made it to the end of the Revolutionary War! I don't think I knew what a mess that was for so long, and how much the States really shouldn't have won. :)

[spoilers removed]"

I agree. I really like the characters and the story, but I was just glad to move out of the revolutionary period.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Finished Verrazano Narrows 1968 Up to page 910

(view spoiler)[
I loved the romance with Charlie and Sarah. It gave me an insight into the whole "you can't marry outside of your race/religion" belief too with what her father says to her about the Jewish people needing to stay strong ; and to inter-marry means in a few generations they will no longer be a Jewish family. Not that I agree with him, but I guess I could put myself in his shoes and understand his feelings. Tragic that Charlie and Sarah couldn't be together.
I also found the end of this chapter so moving with Gorham buying the dope for his father! We are getting into another interesting time period so I wonder if he will be drafted or if were going to go through a 'free love' period next
(hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

The End

(view spoiler)[
What a great ending. Very fitting and not sappy or kitsch. I was really sad about Sarah, and particularly the belt, but the symbolism was very important and suited the story.
I was so glad that all others were ok. It was really hard to read about 9/11. I have been to NY a number of times, before and after, and on my last visit I went to the Trinity Church and the memorials there and just sobbed. So heart wrenching stories of humanity, sorrow, and triumph.

Although I would get a bit "argh" when the time shifted and we had new characters, it is a credit to the writer that he kept engaging me and connecting me to all these characters. What a talent. I will read more of his books. Russka: The Novel of Russia next for anyone interested in joining
(hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Yes, I agree Karen. He does make history very readable. I went to the Sept 11 Memorial in 2012 it wasn't quite finished but it was really hard to keep it together emotionally. What a tragedy but also shows what can be achieved when we all pull together.

I'm up for Russka, probably sometime in February if ok with you.

[Kay Kay]

HELP! I am reading 1901 and I am confused. Here is my question: (view spoiler)[ I do not want to look back, but I can't remember when the Master family and the Vandyrk family marry? It must have been very early, but I don't remember. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Karrie,

(view spoiler)[ It was one of the first marriages in the book. Clarissa, the daughter of the first Van Dyrk married the son of the first Master who was in business with him. (hide spoiler)]

[Kay Kay]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Karrie,

[spoilers removed]"

Thank you! It was driving me crazy!

[Skandia]

I'm finished with Revolutionary war era too.
One thing that bothers me too, is how abruptly a relevant character is abandoned.
I even went back and thought that I had missed something about Abigail. There was no mention whom did she marry and when and what happened to her. Sad.

[Stacey]

Skandia wrote: "I'm finished with Revolutionary war era too.
One thing that bothers me too, is how abruptly a relevant character is abandoned.
I even went back and thought that I had missed something about Abiga..."

I'm struggling with that as well, Skandia. The other thing I'm finding difficult is the way that a death will just be tossed out in the following chapter. In Niagra (view spoiler)[ the author just happens to mention that James had died on the trip home from London they just talked about in the chapter before. Why mention it at all? Let me think he was happily off screen playing with his grandkids. It seems kind of pointless. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "I'm up for Russka, probably sometime in February if ok with you..."

Sounds good. Let me just check my schedule and see when I can get it (book schedule that is..haha)

[Skandia]

Karen wrote: "Moonlight Sonata 1871

[spoilers removed]"

I'm kind of ok with author shortening the war chapters. Maybe because I'm more invested in characters. But this story was beautiful and heartbreaking. I don't know if this singing was historically authentic or just a fiction but this chapter was really showing the cruelty of the civil war.