Prehistoric Fiction Writers and Readers Campfire discussion
What would you do if your shaman was incompetent?
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Mary
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Nov 17, 2014 03:00PM
Pretend you live with a small band of people thousands of years ago. You depend on the shaman to keep the gods happy. But what if he or she is a fraud? What if he or she is incompetent? What would you do to protect the band?
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Recognizing the shaman was incompetent would be a terrible threat to your spiritual understanding of the world - like realizing your priest or minister is a fraud. Exposing the fraud might put you in serious danger in the group.
I would very carefully try to expose the fraud, making sure not to implicate myself if possible. Set some sort of trap, like asking questions I already know the answer to. I might need a confidant for this, or possibly more than one--only people I trusted!
Cut out the middle man and appeal directly to the gods to do something about the fake shaman. Then I'd expect the gods to do something about it, maybe a miracle or something. And I'd keep on trying to communicate with the gods, or one particular god that I felt was listening to me, until something happened. And maybe I'd feel led down the path of being a shaman of sorts, albeit one not recognised by the rest of the tribe. It could be a lonely path to walk. But I'd stay true to the gods (or the specific god I was trying to communicate with) and not to the fake shaman. If I feared retribution from the fake shaman, I'd do all this in secret, and I would be extremely careful who I'd confide in about this.
Kiyya wrote: "Cut out the middle man and appeal directly to the gods to do something about the fake shaman. Then I'd expect the gods to do something about it, maybe a miracle or something. And I'd keep on tryi..."I like this answer very much!
Mod
Kathleen wrote: "Recognizing the shaman was incompetent would be a terrible threat to your spiritual understanding of the world - like realizing your priest or minister is a fraud. Exposing the fraud might put you..."I totally agree. This would present a very serious dilemma
Maybe we should try a group write about this. That would be fun1
I agree! Is there a way we could all access a document?
Sure! We could just put it in the Cloud on Dropbox. If you don't have that yet, you should get it. It's a free download and very easy to use. It allows document-sharing among a group that you designate. Here's an idea: We could write a story as a group, using Dropbox, then when we feel it's ready, we could publish it 1) on our own websties as a freeby, 2) chapter by chapter on our own websites, 3) or some other way. But the point is, we could all use it to build our audiences--for free.
Thoughts?
sounds interesting :) so long as no-one puts any big files in it (like pictures etc) because I don't have that much room in my dropbox
Mod
simply Google "Dropbox" and download it. It's free. That's about all there is to it.
To All: If you want to participate in a group-write on the topic of "Incompetent Shaman," download "Dropbox" to your computer. At the moment it sounds like Sandy, Kiyya, Kaye, Kathleen and me are up for it. Perhaps we can start this the first week of December?
We'll need some guidelines. Here's what I propose, but they are totally open to change as you wish. I've never done this before, so I'm just making this up as I go:
1. We designate what order we will write in
2. The person whose turn it is will write 500-1000 words, picking up where the previous person left off
3. Each person will try to write once a week???
4. When you finish your turn, you email the next person in line so they can write???
Help me out here. What suggestions do you all have for doing this. It shouldn't be onerous on anyone, just fun.
I'm a little rusty with Dropbox, but it sounds like fun to me.
I'm in. The guidelines sound good. You want to start us off, Mary?
One more thing. It might be easier for me to start in January. But I could probably manage December if everyone else wants to do it.
Mod
I have a book coming out this week, and I just agreed to run the Writers Workshop at a local convention this spring. So probably not a good time to take on additional writing commitments.
But I look forward to reading this story. BTW, will your shaman be just incompetent? Or more on the greedy and corrupt side?
I agree with Kathleen! the more evil the betterHere's another thought to start us off:
Maybe one person should write a brief into to the characters so we can all work with the same set of "people"
And Someone else should design the world and give us some rules for how that world works. Then we all need to try to keep our characters in the same world (I guess)
Sandy can be our critic or coach as we go along, when she has time
What do you think?
Sounds good to me! How many characters are we working with and how long is the story?
Please suggest, Kathleen. Whatever you say works for me!
Ok, Kathleen and I have started the story of Tana, a young girl who saw something she shouldn't have. I'll put it in dropbox, but I'll need your email address to give you access. Please contact me at maryblack0@gmail. com if you want to participate. Kaye may join us in January and Sandra will be our critic.
Mod
Sandra wrote: "I'm really looking forward to this, people. Mary, you have my email address (I only have one) but let me know if you need anything else. This will be my first time working with dropbox."Thanks, Sandy. Did you survive the rain?
Sorry I'm pretty late to the party but this sounds like a great idea everyone, can't wait to begin!
Also, should we all come up with a general plot that we would like to follow or is everyone alright with the spontaneity? Sorry, it's just in my style to have an idea where everything is headed before I begin, but if not, that's fine
Claire wrote: "Also, should we all come up with a general plot that we would like to follow or is everyone alright with the spontaneity? Sorry, it's just in my style to have an idea where everything is headed bef..."
The story takes place in the course of a single day. Tana has seen something dangerous and shares the information with her friend. The story should be available through Dropbox. Mary has added some info about the group also.
The shaman's name is Wolf Eye, not Owl Eye.
Your addition is welcome!
Claire wrote: "Also, should we all come up with a general plot that we would like to follow or is everyone alright with the spontaneity? Sorry, it's just in my style to have an idea where everything is headed bef..."Claire,
I sent you a message on Goodreads. If you'll send me your email address, I can give you access to the story on Dropbox. Cheers,
Mod
I assume you're sending my access later? I wouldn't mind looking at it now if you have the time.
I totally agree with Kaye on this issue. Undermining the belief the people have in a radical and acute manner will lead only to more damage than even a bad/incompetent shaman.Ha! This same thing actually happens in my book lol
The high priest of a village Ember visits (Cardium Pottery Culture people from France) has a priest who wanders around the idea of keeping the people believing in what he knows/suspects isn’t true but needs to keep the people in order. He believes in Gods and suspects that they have some will… but he finds himself bending his people’s interpretation of events to match his guess at the “truth”, all of the while knowing that he is likely wrong.
Except from Chapter 3: The Great Lunar Festival
Perhaps a God or Gods exist or perhaps they do not. What is for certain is that religion is a construct of humanity which seeks to facilitate and govern humanity's interaction with a proposed God or Gods, as well as with itself. In effect, religion is a method of self-governance which allows a culture or civilization to invoke its own order by divine mandate. This begs the most important, and yet allusive question: is that mandate justified? The acceptance of divine mandate without empirical proof is said to be faith, the opposite of a secular empirical mandate. Humans have historically seen fit to follow faith over empiricism, which is perhaps a general property of the human condition.
Humans have a need to see cause where there is an effect. From Birth, people observe cause and effect in their lives for every action they take. It is of little wonder why events which cannot be readily explained were and still are attributed to supernatural beings. The proof often offered for the existence of these beings is their alleged causation of that which we cannot explain by any other means. By definition, this is an argument of incredulity. Regardless of this illogic, it is for certain that religion has had the effect of moderating society. Of this, we can be empirically sure.
The order imposed by a culture's predominant religions is often governed by the general hierarchy and social constructs of that culture. As a result, many aspects of a culture may be inferred by the study of its religion. Many hypothetical models for the religious ways of ancient peoples from the Neolithic period have been proposed by historians, religious scholars, and enthusiasts. There have been many attempts to fully reconstruct the religions of ancient peoples based upon the plethora of these hypotheses. These many attempts have resulted in a degree of misinformation, misunderstanding, and confusion where prehistoric religion is concerned. The truth is that no one really knows to any real degree of certainty what people believed, other than more prominent aspects recorded in sculpture and works of long dead believers.
Tom wrote: "I totally agree with Kaye on this issue. Undermining the belief the people have in a radical and acute manner will lead only to more damage than even a bad/incompetent shaman.Ha! This same thing..."
The description of your priest or shaman sounds like modern-day politicians!
Mary wrote: "Tom wrote: "I totally agree with Kaye on this issue. Undermining the belief the people have in a radical and acute manner will lead only to more damage than even a bad/incompetent shaman.Ha! Thi..."
In a way, many can be.
Consider a priest or priestess who believes there deity is real (and how know, it may be) and uses real world events to imply meaning where there may not be any. This would sound deceitful unless you consider that the person believes that there really is a meaning and it is currently beyond their understanding... Sort of metalogical, but it happens.
I have my priest working multiple agendas. He really thinks he is doing the right thing, but he changes the people's mind as needed.
For example, he is going to perform a ritual sacrifice but he tries to be merciful (chapter 16: The Right Choice):
"He would risk the ire of the Gods and give her herbs to make her calm, he decided then. That shouldn't anger them much as they seemed only displeased that she had escaped death, not for any deed which warranted pain or suffering. She wouldn't know what was happening and would slip away without much pain."
The priest has to juggle the will of the Gods, the right thing to do, the interests of the tribe, and the emotions of the people... a difficult task.
(Chapter 17: The Greatest River)
"With luck, the people were buying his story. He had dragged the man into the hut where he would “examine” the body and have it buried before anyone could see. He hoped the people would accept his answer. "
These are excerpts from my book:
Ember of a New World
