Ultimate Popsugar Reading Challenge discussion
2020 Challenge - Regular
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18 - A book with a made-up language
Parseltongue is made up. There is also Gobbledegook, what the goblins speak. Personally, I would count it.
Johanne wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Would My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She's Sorry 
by Fredrik Backman fit this ..."This book has what is referred to as a secret made up language between grandmother and granddaughter along with a made up world. The language ends up being a real language spoken long ago but has been lost thru the world wars. I’m not sure if this would fit or not due to the language being a small countries language at some point in time.
I also recommend Arrival/The Story of your life by Ted Chiang. And Harry Potter, of course.
The listopia list mentions The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin. Is that accurate? I'd like to read that book.
Mod
It’s pretty standard for SFF books to include made up terms & slang just to indicate that it’s the future and language evolves as things change. I don’t consider things like “rusting earth,” “stone eater,” “orogene,” or “rogga “ to be a made up language, they are just made up words and slang used within the known language of English.
BUT ymmv here.
I see it the same way as Nadine. (But it's a fantastic book and I recommend it! It would fit prompts for a WOC author, a book that passes the Bechdel test, a bildungsroman, a three-word title, or a book with a great first line.)edit: it also has a map
Lynn wrote: "Johanne wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Would My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She's Sorry by [author:Fredrik Backman|64..."I LOVED this book, but I don't think that language counts, but it counts for the title over 20 letters if you do the advanced one.
Also, it opens with "Every seven year old deserves a superhero" which I think is a fabulous opening line.
Drakeryn wrote: "I see it the same way as Nadine. (But it's a fantastic book and I recommend it! It would fit prompts for a WOC author, a book that passes the Bechdel test, a bildungsroman, a three-word title, or a..."Thank you! I'll take it for one of these prompts!
Kelly wrote: "Does anyone know if Fire & Blood by George R.R. Martin have a made-up language too?"From memory, there's some High Valyrian, e.g. names of dragons, but very little. It's written in the style of a history book so there's no dialogue. I think it would be stretching the prompt a fair bit, but if you're okay with that then go ahead - it's worth reading, in my opinion.
I haven't read them yet but I've heard that Brandon Sanderson's book Elantris and the Stormlight Archives books (The Way of Kings etc) have made-up languages in them. The Mistborn books (The Final Empire etc) have a street slang language that is well-developed, though I'm not sure if that counts.
For those of you who don't want to read a doorstopper High Fantasy book, another option could be H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulu stories, which include words and phrases in R’lyehian.
Jasper Fforde's Early Riser has a made up language (and lots of footnotes). It's a huge worldbuilding book, but such a quirky story and read. I enjoyed it! 
Kelly wrote: "Does anyone know if Fire & Blood by George R.R. Martin have a made-up language too?"Dothraki maybe
In Message 27, Johanne mentioned: Ke Iz Tak by Carson Ellis . Here's a discussion of the difficulty translators had with the book: It seems to me as delightful as the book must be.Editors who pitch picture books at international fairs are accustomed to having to explain the text to foreign publishers in a language they both understand, but for Candlewick’s Liz Bicknell, selling the rights to Carson Ellis’s Caldecott Honor book Du Iz Tak? ultimately meant translating the entire text—into English—for the first time.
“I’ve been in children’s publishing for 25 years and this has never happened to me before,” said Bicknell, the book’s editor. “You don’t think there’s much left to learn, but there always is.”
The story, nominally about the life cycle of a plant experienced by the nattily dressed insects that live around it, is written entirely in dialogue, in a “bug language” invented by Ellis. A fly points to a sprout poking up from the ground and asks, “Du iz tak?” Its companion replies, “Ma nazoot.”
The book attracted strong interest from foreign publishers, and has sold into 11 territories so far. But Bicknell said the job of translating the text posed unique challenges. First problem: some of the words Ellis invented for her bugs were actual words in other languages. “Tak,” for instance, is the Swedish word for “thank,” although the spelling— “tack” —differs slightly.
It also became clear that many publishers didn’t realize that Ellis’s dialogue was more than nonsense. The first attempt at translating the text into French raised a red flag for the author. “I used ‘ribble’ for ladder and I used it twice to help a reader intuit what it meant,” Ellis recalled. “But in the first French version there was no repeated word. So we asked about that and they were surprised to learn that my gibberish actually meant something.”
So Carson wrote out her text for the first time—in English. “We gave them the translation and they completely rewrote their own version,” Ellis said.
Bicknell said it became clear that every new edition would need the same foundational guidance. “We realized that in order for the Chinese or the Scandinavian or the Dutch publishers to create a translation, they needed to know what English words Carson had in mind, as an interim step to creating their own bug language,” she said. “Sentence construction is different in other languages and it’s really important that the gibberish phrases scan because that’s part of how a reader figures out what the bugs are saying, and working out what they are saying is part of the fun.”
It’s a Small World
The author originally conceived of the book with her hands in dirt. “I’m a big gardener and initially I wanted to write something about growing plants and the life cycle of a plant, showing the different attention a gardener pays to a plant as it grows from something very small to a wild tangle of leaves,” she said. “But then I thought, that’s probably going to be boring for kids.”
Instead, Ellis cycled back to her own childhood interests. “As a kid one thing I was really interested in was that microcosmic world that’s going on around plants, and I thought other kids would also be interested in that. I really wanted it to work on different levels.”
She submitted a manuscript with text only. “The words were all gibberish and there were no sketches,” she recalled. “Just a lot of illustration notes like, ‘Two damsel flies approach a small plant.’ ”
Bicknell didn’t flinch: “I was super-charmed right from day one,” she said. “To me it was one of those texts that was fun to read, more like a theatrical performance done by a parent. The words are so much fun to say. And, honestly, if you think about it, picture books are full of words their audience doesn’t understand at first.”
Bicknell edited without an English translation—it only occurred to her after several rounds that there was a deliberate logic to the bugs’ seemingly nonsensical speech.
“I had it translated in my head, but I hadn’t written it down,” Ellis said, “so when Liz asked, ‘Does this actually mean anything?’ I said ‘Yes, absolutely.’ ”
The book’s title—What Is That? in English—had to be changed in all its foreign-language iterations. Dutch bugs ask Kek Iz Tak?; their Portuguese cousins query Ke Iz Tuk? In Germany, bugs who want to know What Is That? wonder Wazn Teez?
Although she can’t pronounce the title, the Chinese edition is Ellis’s favorite. “It’s just so beautiful and the fact that it is written in Chinese characters makes it even more inscrutable,” she said. “I don’t speak Chinese so these bugs really do seem to be speaking a language I truly don’t understand.”
Karin wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Johanne wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Would My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She's Sorry by [author:Fredr..."This book was amazing! May even read a second time for the challenge!
That's so cool and the Danish version I've read absolutely reflects the 'intuitively understandable bug language'. In Danish it's called 'ma æ dat' which totally means 'what is that' :)
Teresa wrote: "Karin wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Johanne wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Would My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She's Sorry by..."One of these days I should reread it. It was my first foray into Fredrik Backman and I think I'd love it just as much knowing the basics, but I have so many other books I'm thinking of reading!
Everything Under by Daisy Johnson would work for this prompt. I just finished reading it for the 2019 challenge because it’s a myth retelling of Oedipus. It was shortlisted for Man Booker prize. It’s about 300 pages but the chapters are super short and you could read it in a day or two. It goes by quickly.
1984, maybe, with its "doublespeak", such as "doubleplusungood."
Maddy wrote: "The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God are lengthy but SO GOOD."Ah, this looks SO good. I am guessing the made up language is from the extra-terrestrial?
Karin wrote: "Maddy wrote: "The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God are lengthy but SO GOOD."I only mentioned the first, but if anyone reads the first I strongly recommend reading..."
Hi Karin, while I am not a big fan of sci-fi your comment has made me re-think this one. So you are saying you think readers who do not necessary love sci-fi would maybe like this novel?
Sarah wrote: "Only Human is the last book in a really good trilogy! HIGHLY recommend this series on audio!! Note: I don't think the first two books would qualify, only the third."Hi Sarah, while you mentioned the first two books would not qualify for this prompt.. I have always been interested in this series. Would the first book, Sleeping Giants, qualify for the AI, robot, or cyborg prompt?
I saw that Harry Potter is on the Listopia list. I read the 1st 3 books years ago and would love to read book 4 for this prompt but I don't recall what the made up language is. Does anyone know?
Mod
I think Harry Potter is listed because of Parseltongue. I can’t remember if that features in all the books.
Nadine wrote: "Sleeping Giants would work for robot/AI/cyborg.I think Harry Potter is listed because of Parseltongue. I can’t remember if that features in all the books."
Parsletongue is not identified as such until the second book. However Harry talks to a snake in book one and its later established he used parsletongue to do it.
Elke wrote: "1984, maybe, with its "doublespeak", such as "doubleplusungood.""No, that's just English being modified :)
Crumb wrote: "Karin wrote: "Maddy wrote: "The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God are lengthy but SO GOOD."I only mentioned the first, but if anyone reads the first I strongly rec..."
Yes, this is correct, much like Margaret Atwood fans tend to like her scifi series, but hers does NOT have a made up language.
If you like Mary Doria Russell, who normally does NOT write scifi, you have a good chance of liking this even though it is. It focuses far less on science and more on anthropogy and linguistics, etc. One of the main characters is a Jesuit priest (this is NOT a religious novel in that sense of the word!) is a linguist whose job is to help learn how to speak with the sentient species on another planet (in this case there are two of them, predator and prey).
It is literary and dark, but the sequel is not so dark.
Elena wrote: "If you want to go to the source, so to speak, I can recommend The Art of Language Invention: From Horse-Lords to Dark Elves, the Words Behind World-Building. It's nonfiction about l..."This sounds great!
Fantasy and science fiction are a gold mine of constructed languages. Some are complete languages, with complete grammars and dictionaries. Others are a mishmash.All of the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan include the Old Tongue, including the reference books.
Also, there are a couple of languages in Tolkien's work. J.R.R. Tolkien is a big fan of language, and Elvish especially is quite well fleshed out.
What about
- she speaks with Medusa in their language but she only understands them through a translator and there are some descriptions of the language - or are we looking for entire passages written in that other language?
I'm so excited because I've been trying to read books that I already own as much as possible, but I hadn't found one for this prompt... until I remembered The Hobo Handbook: A Field Guide to Living by Your Own Rules!
Sarah wrote: "Rachel wrote: "I've heard that the Saga, Vol. 1 series involves a made up language. Can anyone confirm? I'm thinking of making this series a goal for next year."It seems heavily i..."
Can it be read as a stand-alone??
K.L. wrote: "If we're including made-up swear words and slang as "a made-up language," The Maze Runner would be a good option."I feel this will be my choice as well. I have the first 2 book in this series on my tbr.
Kathy wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Rachel wrote: "I've heard that the Saga, Vol. 1 series involves a made up language. Can anyone confirm? I'm thinking of making this series a goal for next year."It s..."
Saga does have a made-up language, so it would definitely work. But each issue ends on a cliff-hanger, so unless you're cool with not knowing how things turn out, it's not really great for stand-alone reading.
Granted, the writers are taking a break from it for now, so we've ended on issue 9...but the story's not done.
Ridley Walker by Russell Hoban. It's a dystopian novel from 1980 set in England. The made up language is based on the dialect in Kent. I don't remember the plot so I'd like to read it again at some point.
I think the Belter language from The Expanse probably counts, seems like a good way to tick off another novel in the series (only 4 more to go including the last one, which I think is coming out this year).
I think Fredrik Backman’s “My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She’s Sorry” absolutely works for this prompt. Just finished the book recently and I highly recommend it!
I checked the list and saw Hobit and The Lord of the Rings. And what about The Silmarillion or The Fall of Gondolin? Do they fit?Or books by Raymond E. Feist?
Might go ahead with Dune with this one, I've been postponing it forever.
Sarah wrote: "Only Human is the last book in a really good trilogy! HIGHLY recommend this series on audio!! Note: I don't think the first two books would qualify, only the third."For those that don't pre-pick their entire list--and for those that are simply looking for something good for their next read, I'd like to second Sarah's sentiments. This is a great series. (I read Book 1, audio'ed Book 2&3.)
Brandon wrote: "Does anyone know if The Witcher series fits this prompt?"I was really hoping it would, but when asked if he created a language, the author replied:
"No, I didn't. Tolkien did, as he was a linguist, and new 19 languages, including some dead ones. I did not invent any language. Instead I created a few phrases, only so that I would not have to make a footnote - I hate it when someone writes, for instance, "drapatuluk papatuluk", and explains in a footnote that in means "close the door, the flies are entering". My goal was to create a text in a fictional language that an erudite Polish reader would understand without having to refer to footnotes. I built a language based on a mix of French, English, Latin, and German. No one knows what a phrase means, but they know what will happen. I created a cocktail of languages." (https://scifi.stackexchange.com/quest...)
I chose this book:The Art of Language Invention: From Horse-Lords to Dark Elves, the Words Behind World-Building
Technically it's a book of multiple made-up languages, right? I'd recommend this book as well.
Shawna983 wrote: "I think Fredrik Backman’s “My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She’s Sorry” absolutely works for this prompt. Just finished the book recently and I highly recommend it!"Thanks for this suggestion. I was looking for a book that wasn't Sci-fi or Fantasy.
Crumb wrote: "Karin wrote: "Maddy wrote: "The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God are lengthy but SO GOOD."I only mentioned the first, but if anyone reads the first I strongly rec..."
I read it a few years ago and it remains one of my favorite books and I am NOT a sci-fi fan. It's excellent!
I have started reading Children of Blood and Bone , and not wholy but there are some words/enchantments in some made up language (I guess).Can it be considered for this challenge ?
I consider Colleen Hoover’s Point of Retreat a made up language, I mean they change the meaning of words like go butterfly yourself and even change some words...like basagna haha
Ellen wrote: "Brandon wrote: "Does anyone know if The Witcher series fits this prompt?"I was really hoping it would, but when asked if he created a language, the author replied:
"No, I didn't. Tolkien did, as ..."
I haven't read this series, but based on that reply alone I'd say it's a made-up language for the purposes of this prompt. Seems like whether he created a language or not is more of a semantics/philosophical question.
Conny wrote: "A plot point in Lisey's Story is the made-up words/language between husband and wife, so that should definitely count!Speaking of Stephen King, [book:The Dark Tower Series Collection..."
Also the Regulators and Desperation would work. They include some made up language in them.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Desperation (other topics)Terra (other topics)
The Search for WondLa (other topics)
Ella Enchanted (other topics)
The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You (other topics)
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Mitch Benn (other topics)Alice Walker (other topics)
Jonathan Swift (other topics)
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Maggie Stiefvater (other topics)
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Confirmed if no one has confirmed for you yet ;)