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The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald (Anything Goes BOM); Start Date December 20, 2014
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This is one case when I thought the movie was better than the book. The scene where DiCaprio as Gatsby was reunited with Daisy was so well done. He was perfect at portraying his nervousness and jitter - it was acted to perfection. It was a brilliant scene.
17. I don't think I felt much because Gatsby was so pathetic spending his life trying to attain this woman by materialistic means - amassing wealth. And then I just didn't care for any of the characters, not even Nick, therefore I didn't have an emotional connection and didn't care what happened to them.20. To me it really showed the superficiality of the relationships. It is so despicable.
BOM Questions Ch 7-9
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I think part of it was I always have a hard time connecting to characters both in shorter books and in classics which would effect it, but I definitely didn't feel terribly sad at the ending.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
I don't really think so. She can love both, it was definitely selfish of him to want all of her love even after she admitted to loving him.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
I don't know, he did obsess over her for like five years didn't he? He didn't really seem ready to let her go. Though it probably would have gone over better for him if he could have.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
The fact that no one really showed up to his funeral was one of the things that did make me sad at the end. It just shows that in the end their relationships were really superficial
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
It certainly isn't my favourite book ever, but I liked it a lot more than I was expecting. I haven't seen the movie, but I really want to now that I've read the book. I feel like I might be able to connect to it better.
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I think part of it was I always have a hard time connecting to characters both in shorter books and in classics which would effect it, but I definitely didn't feel terribly sad at the ending.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
I don't really think so. She can love both, it was definitely selfish of him to want all of her love even after she admitted to loving him.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
I don't know, he did obsess over her for like five years didn't he? He didn't really seem ready to let her go. Though it probably would have gone over better for him if he could have.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
The fact that no one really showed up to his funeral was one of the things that did make me sad at the end. It just shows that in the end their relationships were really superficial
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
It certainly isn't my favourite book ever, but I liked it a lot more than I was expecting. I haven't seen the movie, but I really want to now that I've read the book. I feel like I might be able to connect to it better.
Chapters 7-9Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I was not emotionally involved in the book, so I no I'm not sad about it.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
not really no.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
I don't think so.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
It is a sad thing that no one showed up for the funeral.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
No, but I'm going to. I have the dvd, but wanted to read the book before watching it.
Ch 4 - 61. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction?
Nick's father tells him "Whenever you feel like criticizing any one, just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." To me, this gives an awareness to Nick that he may not have achieved on his own. After this, Nick starts really listening to people and giving them a chance, rather than dismissing them based on the fact that they happen to fall into a lower social class. I think this gives Nick a more sympathetic personality than someone like Daisy or Tom. Another quote that stuck out for me is when Myrtle says about the hotel staff, "These people! You have to keep after them all the time," as if they are a different planetary race, while she herself is only part of the elite world due to her affair with Tom. I think the mega-wealthy people in the story leave a very bad impression in the end.
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less?
I think he keeps the souvenirs in an effort to prove he is who he says he is. I think Jordan doesn't believe him because she probably knows people who really did go to Oxford, and he is nothing like them.
I think Gatsby is more believable when he starts being honest about his intentions.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting?
The beautiful decorated worlds of the Eggs and NYC are a far cry from the barren wasteland of the Ashes. The rich live in the lavish areas, but the poor reside in the dry, colorless, shabby realm.
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her?
Jordan is probably the type of girl that Nick has known his entire life. I like how she is athletic and not as focused on the "women as decoration" mentality.
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love?
I think they each have a romanticized notion of what it would be like to be together. Daisy represents all that Gatsby is striving to achieve: wealth without worry and a beautiful woman on his arm. I wonder does he really want "her" or is it more the idea of her. She is the one that got away, so I can't help but think that the conquest is the goal for him. Once he catches her, would he treat her the way Tom does? Probably not as badly, but for Gatsby is it the pursuit that drives him?
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
Those with old money don't readily accept those who have come into money recently. They are not really on the same level, at least in the eyes of the ones who inherited.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy?
Dan Cody offers James an escape from the bedraggled existence that he feels he doesn't deserve. He wants to be "good enough" for Daisy, which he thinks means getting a lot of money.
8. Bonus! If anybody has read a biography about F Scott Fitzgerald or his wife, Zelda, how do you see this book reflecting or contrasting with their own lives?
I have read bios of both. They lived lives of excessive drinking and partying, so sure some of that is reflected in the book. Zelda was hospitalized for mental problems, and I can definitely see Daisy headed that way.
Chapter 1 - 31) Is this the first time reading it for you, or is it a re read? If it is a re read, have your impressions changed so far, are you feeling differently this time around?
this is a reread, the first time I read it was in high school. I absolutely loved this book in high school, I almost wish I didn't reread it because I don't know if it was just the magic of the book when I read it the first time, or what, it just wasn't the same.
2) We have been introduced to Daisy Buchanan - any first impressions of her character?
She's very stuck up, spoiled, a bit niave too
3) What about Tom Buchanan?
he seems like he's arrogant, if I met him in real life I'd dislike him
4) When Daisy is talking to Nick about the day her daughter was born, she told him that she hoped her daughter would grow up to be a fool, a beautiful fool. What does this mean to you?
beautiful and dumb.
5) What are your thoughts on Nick going to hang out with Tom and his mistress behind his cousin's (Daisy) back?
Maybe it's the freethinking days of the flapper or something I don't know, im not really into that scene, especially a cousin
6) How do you think having Nick Caraway narrate serve this story?
I think he's the best pick of them all, I don't think it'd have the same effect if it was in the POV of someone else.
7) Nick states in the beginning that everything he finds loathsome and despises in the filthy rich he somehow does not feel toward Gatsby. Gatsby is somehow held exempt. Any ideas yet on why this is?
hero worship, brolove. he idolizes him, so of course he cant have any faults.
8) I have read many times The Great Gatsby referred to as the great American novel. I know we are only to the first section, but so far do you have any ideas on what that means or why this is?
it has a little bit of everything, romance, idolization, weath, parties, adultery, a smashing ending. its glamour and glitz.
BOM Questions: Chapters 4-61. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction?
I think the entire book has a underlining theme of wealthy being lazy and dumb. you have the dumb jock, the rich wife that's being cheated on, things like that.
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less?
I think someone with that big of a story would tend to be thought of as exaggerating. or maybe because he has all the money in the world, he couldn't possibly have the story that he has.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting?
I think its old money (more respectable) and new money.
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her?
I think he's drawn to her because he's drawn to the lifestyle of the rich, but he realizes that she's just beautiful outside, its a physical thing.
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love?
In a way it is romantic, but in a way, its more like obsession with something that he cant have or buy.
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
from the books and movies and little bit of history that I remember, I'd say its pretty accurate.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy?
im not really sure.
8. Bonus! If anybody has read a biography about F Scott Fitzgerald or his wife, Zelda, how do you see this book reflecting or contrasting with their own lives?
haven't read any
Dec 22Chapters 7-9
Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I think I didn't feel sad only because it felt creepy that he waited for daisy all of those years. I dunno, the first time I read this book I remember feeling so sad and wistful and so full of love gone by.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
no, its really creepy and stalkerish
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
I think if he had ever truly let go of Daisy and moved on and tried to make the attempt to move on, he would have been happy without her.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
I do, to a point. Gatsby was so cold and aloof to everyone, mysterious, so that he never really and truly got close to anyone. he was surrounded by people all of the time, all of the glamour and parties, but he had no one. it's lonely
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
I think when I was a teen and read this book, the lost love aspect of it was so romantic to me, it was all horrible, the tragedy. now Im more jaded and cynical so the whole love story was just plain creepy to me. I'm sad about that because I always had fond memories of this book, and thought it was just excellent, and I really don't anymore. I haven't seen the movie yet.
Chapters 1 - 31) Is this the first time reading it for you, or is it a re read? If it is a re read, have your impressions changed so far, are you feeling differently this time around?
I read the book in high school, some 25 years ago. I honestly don't remember much about it so it feels like it's the first read!
2) We have been introduced to Daisy Buchanan - any first impressions of her character?
I can't tell if she's a bit ditzy, or just fake. She seems very clueless, but is she really? Or just a persona she felt she needed to portray?
3) What about Tom Buchanan?
He seems like a "hater"...seems to look down on everyone else, but seems to be more out of jealousy. He wants to be like the others, but since he's not (or can't get to that level), he's going to put them down and be a jerk.
4) When Daisy is talking to Nick about the day her daughter was born, she told him that she hoped her daughter would grow up to be a fool, a beautiful fool. What does this mean to you?
Seems like she hopes for a life for her daughter that is easier for her because she's clueless. If you know too much or strive for too much, life is too hard for you (you get knocked down too often). For the times, I think women were supposed to just sit there and look pretty...be a pretty side-arm for their spouse...not have an opinion on things. If her daughter was able to just go with the flow and not question things, life would be easier.
5) What are your thoughts on Nick going to hang out with Tom and his mistress behind his cousin's (Daisy) back?
Seems like Nick just goes with it...he knows it's not right, but can't say/do anything otherwise. He seems to be one of those people who doesn't like conflict, so even though he doesn't agree with it and is uncomfortable, he's not going to call Tom out on things (or let Daisy know anything).
6) How do you think having Nick Caraway narrate serve this story?
Seems like we get a pretty honest perspective of things this way. He seems to feel comfortable to point out the ridiculousness/extravagance of some, but can't quite tell if it's jealousy or if he's truly believing that.
7) Nick states in the beginning that everything he finds loathsome and despises in the filthy rich he somehow does not feel toward Gatsby. Gatsby is somehow held exempt. Any ideas yet on why this is?
Seems like maybe he feels differently about Gatsby because he has worked for his money. He's not in the group to get things from others (whereas the guests seem to be looking at what's in it for them...what does being at the party say about them to others?). So for Gatsby, perhaps he's not trying to impress everyone else so Nick sees it differently? Still not sure on this one.
8) I have read many times The Great Gatsby referred to as the great American novel. I know we are only to the first section, but so far do you have any ideas on what that means or why this is?
I think for the time, the book seemed to portray what the American Dream can provide to you. If you work hard, you too can have all the money you need. You can have the fancy parties, the fancy clothes, etc. Everyone wants to believe that they can get more, and that they NEED more, so this book helps to portray that belief.
Chapters 7-9Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I think the ending is sad. Especially the funeral. Gatsby tried so hard for acceptance and never achieved it in the end.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
It wasn't fair at all, but Gatsby was, at his core, incredibly lacking in confidence. He was constantly trying to search for acceptance and ultimately never reached it.
Daisy wasn't the women he thought he loved. She loved a memory, not the real Gatsby.
Chapters 4 - 61. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction?
I think it may have been a knock on the excessiveness of the wealthy. I think we definitely see this today, that people want to know what the "rich and famous" are doing, but when they do it we roll our eyes and ask "why did they do that". I think the same was happening then....everyone wants to know what the "in crowd" is doing, but then talk about them behind their backs.
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less?
Some people need "proof' to believe a story...perhaps the souvenirs serve this purpose. If you are accustomed to being questioned about things, perhaps you learn to have proof in order to eliminate the questions.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting?
There seemed to be a distinction/line of us vs. them. Or people being from the wrong side of the tracks. If your from THAT part of town, you must be .....
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her?
Jordan seems different to the narrator....she is her own woman, and not the ditzy/arm-candy that most women of the time were, so he's drawn to her.
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love? I'm not sure if it's really romantic, but still interesting to watch. I'm still trying to understand these two.
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
Seems to be pretty accurate. I'm always curious about the old vs. new money mentality. Why does it matter how long you've had your money? In most cases, "old money" was money from your relatives...nothing you did to earn the money...you may help to maintain it, but you didn't earn it. New money, the person earned the money themselves. They did the work, put in the effort, etc. Regardless of what they did, they still did the work. It would seem (to me anyway) I'd have more respect for someone who did the work and built up their empire themself than someone who took daddy's money and lives off of it.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy?
Not sure....
8. Bonus! If anybody has read a biography about F Scott Fitzgerald or his wife, Zelda, how do you see this book reflecting or contrasting with their own lives?
I haven't read any.
Chapters 7-9Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
This book makes me sad. When I first read it in high school, I don't believe that I understood the tragedy of it. I didn't even remember that Gatsby was murdered, so when I read this again a couple of years ago, it was somewhat of a shock! Both Tom and Daisy are appalling people. They really do make a mess of things and leave everyone else to clean it up. Daisy has killed a woman and has no remorse or any desire to make amends. Tom practically pulled the trigger on Gatsby as he directed Wilson to Gatsby's home. Nick deserves criticism for not coming forward with the truth of the accident. Gatsby is guilty of covering for Daisy. I'm sad that there's no one really to like in this book.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
Gatsby has never loved anyone else, and in his fantasy world, neither has Daisy. He wants her to live up to that fantasy. I believe that Daisy did love Tom in her own way, so for her to say she didn't is a lie.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
I think he could have gotten over his fixation on Daisy if he had tried. At this point though, she is the sole driving factor of his pursuit of wealth. I do believe he could have taken a step back and made a happy life for himself with a different woman, or even as a single man.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
I kept thinking of all the people who would gather at his house for the food, booze and dancing week after week, but after he died they couldn't bring himself to attend his funeral. This is shameful on their part, in my opinion, and shows what shallow people they really are.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
With each read I get something else out of it. It really is a great novel. I really liked the movie and it stuck very closely to the book.
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?Interesting questions! I think there is still hope at the end. Gatsby's green light didn't work out, but maybe yours will.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
It's hard to remember the story without that element since I've read it before. Given how Gatsby wants to rewind the clock and have a redo of those years without Daisy, it doesn't surprise me. It's definitely not fair; I think it shows the extent to which he's obsessed with time and fate.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
Now I will enjoy thinking about that! My initial thought is, he continued to love Daisy after she showed her cowardice, complete lack of empathy, and willingness to throw him under the bus. I think that demonstrates the extent of his delusions about her. There's not much lovable about Daisy by the end of the book, yet he keeps on...she's become more of a symbol than a person. I don't think he could be happy without her (or without striving for her).
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
It's a sad section of the book, and yes, I agree that it's shameful - but more on the part of all those people who had attended parties at Gatsby's and wanted to be there for all of the fun. But then it's Gatsby's fault too; he allowed almost all of his relationships to be superficial because to him, no relationships really mattered but the potential of one with Daisy.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
I have mixed feelings on the book. I have so much respect for it, for the beautiful writing and the perfect construction of it (for example, one thing I learned in the podcast I posted earlier is that Daisy & Gatsby are reunited almost exactly at the halfway point in the book), but it's not a book I want to curl up with or am excited to re-read. As far as the movie, I love it - I think Baz Luhrman's style is perfect for the roaring 20s!
Chapter 1 - 31) Is this the first time reading it for you, or is it a re read? If it is a re read, have your impressions changed so far, are you feeling differently this time around? It's my second time. I like that I know more of what is going on. I feel like I can focus on the characters themselves more instead of simply trying to figure out what is going on. I can look at the whys instead of the whats, I guess :)
2) We have been introduced to Daisy Buchanan - any first impressions of her character? She seems confused to me. The one scene we've met her in so far seems to show her acting in a few different ways that don't really mesh.
3) What about Tom Buchanan? eh, with him I think what you see is what you get.
4) When Daisy is talking to Nick about the day her daughter was born, she told him that she hoped her daughter would grow up to be a fool, a beautiful fool. What does this mean to you? I think she means that a fool is less aware and would be less affected by life.
5) What are your thoughts on Nick going to hang out with Tom and his mistress behind his cousin's (Daisy) back? I don't see this a Nick's decision. He was forced to go by Tom and the author frequently alludes to Tom's potentially volatile nature. I don't think Nick had a way out.
6) How do you think having Nick Caraway narrate serve this story? I like it because I feel like he is on the outside learning just as we are.
7) Nick states in the beginning that everything he finds loathsome and despises in the filthy rich he somehow does not feel toward Gatsby. Gatsby is somehow held exempt. Any ideas yet on why this is? Based on the first section, Gatsby's natural charisma possibly.
8) I have read many times The Great Gatsby referred to as the great American novel. I know we are only to the first section, but so far do you have any ideas on what that means or why this is? You have to read the whole thing to be able to discuss that, I think. Having already read it, I know too much ;)
BOM Questions: Chapters 4-61. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see wealth as being demonized. I feel like in chapter six were Daisy looks back at Gatsby's party we get a sense of how things could be different for her if she could move beyond her set/viewpoint. I think if anything there's a criticism of "old money" and how they look down on those outside their group. I'm not a book critic, though, so I may be way off base :)
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less? I think he carries the souvenirs as "proof". Jordan and Nick aren't inclined to believe him because of the funny pauses that seem to indicate he's lying. Jordan obviously knows how to spot a liar since she is one herself, and Nick seems to be someone who is very good at reading people. I'm not sure what to think of Gatsby. He's an idealist, that's really it.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting? The two Eggs show the split between the old money and the new. Old ways of thinking/doing things vs. new ways.
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her? I never really thought about it... I think Nick is drawn to her because she is so different from him. Her role...well, (view spoiler)
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love? I can't figure out exactly what their relationship is at this point. There's longing there, definitely. But I feel like she's not quite what she used to be for him. He's just trying desperately to not see it.
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
My understanding is the roaring 20s came in because of WWI. Women were needed to work during the war and they continued to claim more rights than they previously had (even if it doesn't seem like much to us). The end of the war brought a lot of change that it seems many weren't ready for.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy? Cody offers Gatz a chance to "learn the business" of being rich. He learns the ins and outs and how to move among them. I think this learning is what gave him the ability to even reach into Daisy's social circle. He wouldn't have been able to otherwise.
8. Bonus! If anybody has read a biography about F Scott Fitzgerald or his wife, Zelda, how do you see this book reflecting or contrasting with their own lives? Haven't read one (yet!)
Dec 22Chapters 7-9
Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end? I get where there is a bit of hope at the end, but I still feel more that it's just a sad ending. The waves at the end seem like and almost useless struggle. If I remember correctly, though, Fitzgerald and the others of his group were incredibly disillusioned with the world around them and I feel like this comes through (especially) at the end.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair? No, it's not fair, but it also shows just how much Gatsby is wrapped up in his dream.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy? No, I think he was too wrapped up in his could-have-beens to ever really move beyond them.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree? Yes and no. On one hand I want to see Gatsby as simply and idealist, but on the other I feel like he was too caught up in money and fortune. Sometimes I think Daisy just represents wealth to him. Even her voice he describes as "full of money". So, still undecided here.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared? I really enjoyed the recent movie, it's what got me to read the book in the first place!
Mod
I agree that there was criticism of the old money v new ; and I think later in the book (especially with the funeral) it is clear that there is a moral to the story here that money can't buy you friends or happiness.
The recent movie is awesome. I must re-watch it over this holidays :)
CassieV wrote: "Dec 22Chapters 7-9
Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still d..."
Good point about Gatsby describing Daisy's voice as "full of money." I'd forgotten about that and agree with your point that Daisy just represents wealth to him. I wonder how much he'd even like her if he could get past that!
Thanks, everyone, for an interesting discussion! It was my first here on Goodreads and I look forward to more.
Overall, I think the book was okay....I remember thinking when I read it in school it was just eh, and I kind of feel the same still. I think this is one that I may get more out of watching the movie, so maybe I'll look for the Leo DiCaprio version soon!
As usual, I'm late.....Chapter 1 - 3
1) Is this the first time reading it for you, or is it a re read? If it is a re read, have your impressions changed so far, are you feeling differently this time around?
I read it in high school, but truthfully I don't remember a thing other than the highlights. I am liking the writing style though.
2) We have been introduced to Daisy Buchanan - any first impressions of her character?
I could see a casual charm to her character. She doesn't seem to take herself or her life very seriously. But it also seems like she knows, that if she would seriously look at her life, she wouldn't like what she saw. I think what appears as flippant is really just her coping mechanism.
3) What about Tom Buchanan?
I think Nick described his character pretty accurately.
4) When Daisy is talking to Nick about the day her daughter was born, she told him that she hoped her daughter would grow up to be a fool, a beautiful fool. What does this mean to you?
I think Taryn and Michelle summed it up beautifully.
5) What are your thoughts on Nick going to hang out with Tom and his mistress behind his cousin's (Daisy) back?
I wasn't crazy about this scene. But like Karen said, the two cousins aren't really that close. But it did show it wasn't just the upper-class who could be unlikable and shallow characters.
6) How do you think having Nick Caraway narrate serve this story?
As Michelle indicated, he is a perfect observer. He is on the outskirts of their circles financially, but still included by familial bonds. I think Karen is also right, it wouldn't have been so relatable if told from Daisy or Tom's perspective--it would have also lost some of the "awe".
7) Nick states in the beginning that everything he finds loathsome and despises in the filthy rich he somehow does not feel toward Gatsby. Gatsby is somehow held exempt. Any ideas yet on why this is?
I don't think I've been able to get a good enough grasp on Gatsby's character, or his interactions with Nick, to answer just yet.
8) I have read many times The Great Gatsby referred to as the great American novel. I know we are only to the first section, but so far do you have any ideas on what that means or why this is?
I think Taryn and Karen are both right. It was a time of great excess and great income disparity. Right before all of that excess came crashing down with the Great Depression.
I'm here to keep you company, Shannon. I'm late as well..Chapter 1 - 3
1) Is this the first time reading it for you, or is it a re read? If it is a re read, have your impressions changed so far, are you feeling differently this time around?
It is a first time read for me.
2) We have been introduced to Daisy Buchanan - any first impressions of her character?
She seems like a charming but clueless person. But something makes me feel that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to her character.
3) What about Tom Buchanan?
He seemed like a proud and arrogant brute. I did not take to his character at all.
4) When Daisy is talking to Nick about the day her daughter was born, she told him that she hoped her daughter would grow up to be a fool, a beautiful fool. What does this mean to you?
The time in which the book is based saw women who were forced into being subdued. Societal pressures forced many women to stop thinking and start projecting themselves as dumb beings. There are places even today where women are expected to play second fiddle. Daisy must have believed that being a beautiful little fool would have assured her daughter a good life.
5) What are your thoughts on Nick going to hang out with Tom and his mistress behind his cousin's (Daisy) back?
It felt like an act of betrayal. Had I been Daisy, I would certainly have hated it if my brother or a distant cousin did what Nick did.
6) How do you think having Nick Caraway narrate serve this story?
Nick gives the outsider's perspective here. In family situations like these, it is best to get a third person narrative so as to eliminate any kind of bias and know the real story as is. I think that's why Nick's character works so far.
7) Nick states in the beginning that everything he finds loathsome and despises in the filthy rich he somehow does not feel toward Gatsby. Gatsby is somehow held exempt. Any ideas yet on why this is?
Gatsby makes Nick feel a sense of familiarity and the phrase "old sport" makes him comfortable. Also, Gatsby didn't seem like he was overtly proud about his riches or that he was obnoxious in his manner. He seems to be calm and of a gentle disposition when they first meet.
8) I have read many times The Great Gatsby referred to as the great American novel. I know we are only to the first section, but so far do you have any ideas on what that means or why this is?
The book describes The American Dream as many of the readers have already noted here. It gives the portrayal of a world where all kinds of riches are there for one's taking. A period of lavish and luxurious living, many people around the world still go to bed dreaming of these things.
So it's okay for us to still do this? Because I was really excited for this, but some reason I thought it started later than it actually did....
Natalie wrote: "So it's okay for us to still do this? Because I was really excited for this, but some reason I thought it started later than it actually did...."Absolutely! Jump on in. ;)
Shannon wrote: "Natalie wrote: "So it's okay for us to still do this? Because I was really excited for this, but some reason I thought it started later than it actually did...."Absolutely! Jump on in. ;)"
Yay!! I'm going to start answering the questions now!! :)
The Great Gatsby: Chapter 1 - 31) This is my second time reading the book. My first time was in ninth grade Honors English class. I absolutely LOVED the book the first time, and so far my first reread isn’t disappointing me. Since I have not read it in almost ten years (holy cow!! That’s a decade!!!!), I do not remember my exact feelings towards this beyond that I know I really enjoyed it, so I cannot really elaborate more than that for this question.
2) At first, she just seems like an airhead, or at least sort of ditzy. But as you learn more about the hardships that she is going through, I start to feel bad for her and forgive her behavior. I even start to wonder if she is putting on an act of nonchalance. It does bother me, though, that she is never with her daughter. It makes me wonder if she dislikes her daughter for being the product of the unfaithful man that she married. But then again, those were different times, and even today the rich often hand their children off to nannies.
3) Is it too early for me to punch him? Okay, I just have to get this screaming off my chest a second, so please excuse me.
DOES HE REALIZE THAT HE JUST TOOK THE COUSIN OF HIS WIFE TO MEET HIS MISTRESS AND THEN SNUCK OFF AND PROBABLY HAD SEX WITH HER WHILE HE WENT TO GO GET THEM CIGARETTES?!?! WHERE DOES HE THINK NICK’S LOYALTIES LIE?!?!?!?!?!
*smoothes back hair and adjusts shirt*
Ahem, now, where was I? Oh yes, beating him up….
Not only does he have a mistress, that EVERYONE knows about, but he is not nice to Daisy in other ways. He constantly cuts her off and demeans her thoughts and opinions. He thinks that what is in his head is all that is important and right in the world. Goodness, can you BE more condescending, Tom? And then he has the nerve to be mad at her when she is alone with Nick and possibly tells him that her husband is having an affair. Well, you know what? If you don’t want your wife telling people about how poorly you treat her, how about you treat her right?!
4) This part touched me a lot, and I remember that it touched me during my first read as well. Daisy so desperately wanted her baby to be a boy so that he would not have to suffer as much in this world. Women were second class citizens, and she was aware of this; Daisy was no fool. It hurt her to know that she was not “as good as” the men, and she did not want her daughter to be aware of that same aspect of life. If her daughter was naïve to the subpar life of women, she might be able to enjoy her life despite it. And, if she was beautiful, then she would hopefully have a better time of life, and find a good catch of a husband.
5) Hehe, you sure you want to ask me this after my outburst? ;)
As I expressed oh so quietly and calmly before, I think it was horrible of Tom. However, Nick was not all together innocent in the situation. Yes, he did not want to be there. Yes, Tom forced him there. Yes, he got drunk to handle it. But what about when he went out to buy the cigarettes? He could have just hopped a train and went home. Was it out of some twisted loyalty to his old schoolmate that he returned and stayed the rest of the day/night? He obviously had loyalty to Daisy, judging by the fact of how much the situation bothered him. But he did not act on his loyalty to Daisy, which bothered me.
6) Nick is an outsider to all. Not only is he not from there, nor does he have the same type of money as any of the main characters, but he has just met most of them. While he has known Daisy and Tom for a few years, he rarely saw Daisy, and he has not seen much of Tom since they graduated. Even when they went to school together, Nick and Tom were not very close. He has just met Gatsby and Jordan, as well as Myrtle and her family. He has fresh eyes to tell the stories that have been developing between these characters over the years. If Gatsby were to tell the story, this would be extremely biased. Also, with Nick narrating, we see all different scenes, as he interacts with all the other characters instead of just a handful.
7) I am going to try to answer this without considering anything I know of this story beyond these first three chapters. Gatsby, while he throws extravagant parties, does not stand there with a neon sign saying, “LOOK AT ME!! I’M GATSBY!!” He blends in a lot, just watching his guests enjoying themselves. When Nick first meets him, he is not even aware of the fact that he is meeting his host until he is told by him.
The first time Nick sees Gatsby from afar, he is standing in his yard looking up at the stars. Nick refrains from going to introduce himself because he seems to want to be alone with his thoughts. I have always felt that that scene has something to do with Nick’s lack of distaste towards Gatsby.
8) Something I found interesting was that one day Nick up and decides he wants to work with bonds, and then he goes and accomplishes that task. That is part of the American dream, is it not? Besides the house with the white picket fence and the 2.5 children, Americans want to believe that they can be whatever they want to be. That is exactly what Nick does in this book, which I believe makes a lot of Americans feel that they can connect to it, which in turn helps it to become the great American novel. This may be way off, but this is how I can see that term being used at this point in the novel.
Mod
Karen wrote: "Teehee Natalie. Love your passion ;)":D Thank you. You should have seen me in college in my one British Lit class...we were discussing As I Lay Dying (Faulkner) and I was FREAKING OUT!! It was a class of less than ten students were we all sat in a circle and had heated discussions, but the other students were looking at me amazed that I could have that much hatred towards a character :)
BOM Questions: Chapters 4-6
1. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction?
I actually think the same way. What I take away from the book is the fact that the author means to criticize the rich. I have finished reading and near the end there is a certain quote where Nick Carraway says something to the effect that the rich are shallow beings.
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less?
I think he keeps those souvenirs to make his past more believable to others. People are inclined to believe rumours so maybe he means to portray a certain life by keeping and displaying those souvenirs. I believed some things that Gastby says while some seemed farfetched to me.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting?
Some descriptions of geography showed the lavish lifestyle that the rich lived. Also, the ashheaps near where the lower strata of the society lived, show their despair and their desolate lives. The descriptions portray the stark contrast between the two.
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her?
Jordan Baker seems like a mystery which is why Nick is probably drawn to her. She seems like a buffer in the mix. She is more involved in Gatsby and Daisy's story so it feels like she is the person who bring them together because she was the one who involved Nick in the first place.
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love?
I thought it was a romantic relationship. Also somewhere down the line, I felt that Daisy had signified Hope to Gatsby. The hope that made him strive to be rich, the hope that helped him survive the war.
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
For me again, it is the promise of the American dream. This book is portrays that dream on almost every page. Also the contrast between the quality of living of the rich and the poor. The prejudice towards new wealth is also portrayed. Gatsby had to take a lot of flack for not belonging to a wealthy family but for making his money of his own accord.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy?
He is on the path to be his own man and he owes it all to Dan Cody who helps him identify with the lifestyle of the rich. Without Cody, he might never have been able to meet Daisy.
Chapters 7-9 Comments and Questions17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end?
I agree. This book gave me a sense of tranquility in the end. It brought the story together well. Yes, the end was sad but I didn't feel that bad. Things were left in a manner signifying peace.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair?
This is where I thought Gatsby was being selfish and completely unreasonable. Gatsby was selfish in his own way in the book.
19. Have you wondered what yould've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy?
He would probably have never been able to move on. He was in too deep. He knew that Daisy was already starting to lose interest in him and even taking advantage of him but he still meant to protect her. But he would have been alive had he just listened to Nick.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
That was abominable! I was outraged by it. But then again, these people are all shallow. With the exception of Nick, everyone was selfish in the book.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared?
I really liked the book. It gave me an idea of how the Roaring Twenties must have been like and there were some messages in the book that are well worth remembering. I have seen the recent movie and that has led me to enjoy the book more. I could identify the characters and the writing made it really easy to read. I would like to revisit the book someday and see if I still like it as much.
The Great Gatsby: Chapters 4-61. Nick is definitely in the “wealth and leisure is bad” camp. Other than Gatsby, he despises how the wealthy live their lives. He helps us see why we should not look upon such things in a positive light.
Glorify:
• “I saw the skins of the tigers flaming in his palace on the Grand Canal; I saw him opening a chest of rubies to ease, with their crimson-lighted depths, the gnawing of his broken heart.” (page 71)
• “‘They’re such beautiful shirts,’ she sobbed, her voice muffled in the thick folds. ‘It makes me sad because I’ve never seen such – such beautiful shirts before.’” (page 98)
Demonize:
• The first one is not a quote, as it is mentioned in many sentences. When Nick describes all of the people who were at Gatsby’s house that summer, many of them have tragic endings. One killed himself by jumping in front of a train, one was drowned, one divorced, etc.
• “Perhaps some unbelievable guest would arrive, a person infinitely rare to be marveled at, some authentically radiant young girl who with one fresh glance at Gatsby, one moment of magical encounter, would blot out those five years of unwavering devotion.” (page 115)
2. Gatsby is obviously aware of all the rumors going around about him, and so people are less inclined to believe the truth about him. What is going to Oxford when compared to killing a man? Not good fodder for the gossip mills. So by hanging out to those little souvenirs, he can whip them out (when so inclined) and say, “Hey, here’s the truth, and here’s the proof!” (Sheesh, I’m being really rhyme-y in my answers….)
Nick, however, does not hear these stories about Gatsby and believe them. However, he does not necessarily believe Gatsby’s tale at first, either. I honestly have a hard time figuring out why Jordan does not believe Gatsby’s stories about Oxford, other than the fact that it’s the roaring twenties, so much is happening, his story is too dull for her taste. But Nick? I feel like he is the type of person who needs hard proof. So until he gets that, he will question.
Seeing how desperately Gatsby has been trying to see Daisy makes him more believable in my eyes. Before that, he is this extravagant guy who throws extravagant parties yet is still aloof. What is his purpose in life? What drives him? Don’t tell me you have never had a crush that you would go out of your way to catch a glimpse of. It made you get up in the morning, throw on your clothes, and get your butt to school, just in case you would see him passing from sixth to seventh period. I know that I’ve been there; I pray that I’m not alone. And we do not know exactly how much time Gatsby spent with Daisy before he was shipped off to war. But if it was true love, it may have needed only a moment. Sure, if it was just a crush, it would not have withstood those five years (more than likely). But if they truly loved one another? Love withstands the test of time.
3. The rain and mist that blocks the view of Daisy’s dock from Gatsby’s house (therefore obscuring the landscape) seems to symbolize the distance between the two of them, the roadblocks that stop them from being together. Just because they are close by, they are still light years away from one another.
Okay, this one might be a stretch, but I am at a loss on this question, and I think that this one sort of fits in…well, at least I will try to explain it so you can see what I mean. Nick’s grass: it was ragged, like a jungle (sort of like our lawn sometimes…). Next door, Gatsby’s lawn was pristine. On the day that Daisy was to come for tea, Gatsby sent over someone to mow Nick’s lawn. The landscape of his yard was, Gatsby felt, a reflection of him as well, even though he was merely visiting, and did not live there. First impressions are important to these people, and he was afraid that the badly manicured lawn that belonged to Nick would scare Daisy off and he would not get a chance to meet with her.
4. Sometimes I really like Jordan. Other times I want to grab her by the shoulders, shake her, and yell in her face, “Get your grubby paws off of Nick!! He’s a good man and you are ruining him!!” When I think of her, I see a flapper, and Nick deserves so much better than that. I feel like she is a bad influence on him.
So far, her biggest role seems to be the bearer of news, and the connection between Gatsby and Daisy (although Nick also is a connection, just not the initial one). She is the one who tells Nick about the past between Gatsby and Daisy, as well as the favor Gatsby is asking of Nick, to invite both Daisy and himself over for tea one day. Gatsby first finds a way to get to Daisy through Jordan. While Nick is his friend and Daisy’s cousin, Gatsby is not aware of this until after talking to Jordan.
Jordan is obviously well built, as she is an athlete. She is more than likely beautiful. She enjoys spending time in Nick’s company. All of these attributes tell us why Nick would be drawn to her. But what about her loose morals? I am not referring to promiscuity, because I honestly do not know whether or not she is. But she lies and cheats. She lied about the car in the rain. She cheated in golf, DURING A TOURNAMENT, when she moved her golf ball. Why would Nick want to be involved with someone like that?
5. I see it as romantic, but also as tragic. If he truly loves her, it is so romantic that he does everything in his power to wait for her and then find her. He wants desperately to be with her, and will wait until he can. But at the same time, it is so tragic…he has waited for five years. He has scoured the Chicago newspapers for even a mention of her NAME – not a photograph of her, but a little typed word. Meanwhile, she is married (unhappily) with a baby girl. For whatever reason, they are not getting divorced, despite the fact that neither of them want to be together, Daisy loves another, and Tom has at least one mistress (I would not be surprised if he had more than one). I believe that Daisy is Gatsby’s American Dream. And he will not rest until he has achieved it.
6. One family sticks up their noses “like goats” whenever anyone approaches them. Whether they are old or new wealth, they probably do not associate with the opposite.
Although this is slightly before the 20s, Jordan remembers walking to the Red Cross to work on bandages for soldiers. She was wearing shoes that were made in Britain. She felt like the American flags were aware of this and were judging her, upset that she would betray America by wearing British clothing.
Many people accuse Gatsby of being a bootlegger. But no one strays away from him in fear. To them, that is almost just a normal occupation choice; while they whisper about it behind his back, it does not influence their decision to partake of his parties.
The drinking! I feel sometimes like Nick is describing a modern day college party! So much drinking went on then, every one getting drunk. One girl is dunked in the pool to sober her up, and she merely complains that they got her dress wet. Then she continues on saying that they did that to her once in New Jersey, almost drowning her.
7. Dan Cody offers James Gatz a new way of life. Suddenly, Gatz turns right into Gatsby, and his whole life story changes. His parents are now Oxford educated rich folk, instead of poor farmers. Every little detail of his life story has now been tweaked. He has become a new man.
No one sees the real Gatsby, until he tells Nick his real life story. Most people who went to his parties only “knew” rumors about him, not what was real. But then again, even if they knew the cover story he was telling, they still would not have known the REAL story. So no one really knew him. The same goes with Daisy. HOWEVER, there is a difference with Daisy…she more than likely got to know what was inside of Gatsby, which he could not have changed. While he lied about his parents and his back story, he more than likely was truthful with his thoughts and feelings when speaking with Daisy.
8. Unfortunately, I have not read any biographies of him
The Great Gatsby: Chapters 7-917. Somehow I managed to finish the book this time without crying (I honestly don’t remember if I cried the first time or not). But I was still so unbelievably sad. My mind tried to will the book to have a different ending. I also did a lot of “if only”s….If only Nick had never gone to West Egg that summer, if only Tom hadn’t spoken with Wilson, if only Tom had been faithful, if only Daisy had waited for Gatsby, on and on and on, ad infinitum. The tragedy of this novel just breaks my heart, and I know I will be mourning Gatsby for the next few days. :(
18. I was not surprised; I could imagine anyone wanting that in such a situation. However, I do not think that it was fair to Daisy. For one thing, she is being put on the spot – and not only in front of her husband, but in front of her cousin and her friend as well. This is a sticky situation no matter HOW you look at it. Tom is cheating on Daisy with a woman named Myrtle. Daisy is in love with a man from before she met Tom, and she finally meets up with him again and begins to cheat on Tom with him. There is nothing right in this situation!! Everyone who is married and cheating needs to get a divorce, and THEN they can be with the man/woman that they love! Okay, my next point…Gatsby is crossing a line by assuming that he knows Daisy’s feelings. While Daisy has told him that she loves him (and therefore he can assume that she does), he does not have the right to assume that she does not nor never has loved Tom. He cannot know that unless she has told him this, and it seems to be evident in the book that she has not told Gatsby this lie.
19. Well, like I said, I am full of “if only”s. But I do not think that Gatsby was ever going to get the chance to be with Daisy, unless their affair continued as it had been doing up until his death. I think Daisy was too afraid and under Tom’s thumb to leave him (whether through a divorce or otherwise) and be fully with Gatsby. As much as she loves him, I do not think she is capable of that. And as Nick pointed out at the end of the novel, people like Daisy and Tom (including them) make messes and expect others to clean up after them (and no, he does not mean physical messes like dirty dishes after dinner that their staff has to clean up). Daisy does things that she wants without thinking of the consequences, but then shies away when it gets to be too much for her. She follows Tom wherever he went the afternoon after his mistress’s death, whether she went willingly or he forced her. She still went, and she would have continued to go with him. Whether or not Gatsby could have ever moved on and been happy is another story. I am sure he could have been able to if he was able to let Daisy go and look for a nice girl. But I am unsure if he would have ever allowed himself to give up on her.
20. Am I alone in thinking that the tennis shoes were not Klipspringer’s? I truly think that he was taking advantage of Gatsby once again, as he always did by “boarding” at his house for days on end. I think he saw an opportunity and ran with it: Gatsby was dead and could not contest to the fact that the shoes were in fact his own and not Klipspringer’s. Just my thought…
I did not feel SHAME for Gatsby, but I did feel immense pity and sympathy. His house was always so full of people when he threw parties, yet when he most needed people…when he DIED…there was no one to go to his house. They are what my Mom-Mom would call “fair weather friends” – they were only there when things were easy and it was convenient for them. I feel so terrible for Gatsby for having so many “friends” like that. No matter what line of business he was in, he deserved better than that.
21. I have not seen the recent movie, although I saw an older version (I forget what year it was filmed) when I read this in high school (I just remembered…I did not read this in ninth grade Honors English like I mentioned in my answers for the first chapters, but in tenth grade Honors American Studies, which combined English, History, Art, and Music…sorry, that was a little side note, haha). I am looking forward to seeing the new version, but I wanted to reread the book first.
I love this book. I absolutely LOVE this book. But it is so tragic. This is like Romeo and Juliet for me (…I just realized, it could be viewed as such….not sure whether or not it ever has been): I love it and enjoy reading/seeing it, but every time I wish and pray for a different, happier ending. I am a sucker for a happily ever after, and I wish for it in all of my books. I know some books are written to be tragedies, but I just wish for a happy ending. How bad would it have been if Gatsby had survived his gunshot wound and fell in love with the pretty nurse that took care of him? Would that have been so terrible? Tragic endings will not stop me from reading great books like this, but they will make me mope for days afterwards.
I planned on reading this. Every day I have opened it and read a couple pages, but I can't seem to get into it. I've seen the movie and I loved the clothing, musics, architecture, ect. It was so visually pleasing. I expected the book to be really exciting as well, but it just hasn't been.
Has anyone else felt the same?
Karen wrote: "Teehee Natalie. Love your passion ;)"HAHA! Totally agree
Shannon wrote: "Karen wrote: "Teehee Natalie. Love your passion ;)"HAHA! Totally agree"
:) Thank you!! I get REALLY into books :)
I finally managed to get around to this book. This was a first time read for me, and I loved it!!!Chapters 7-9
Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby waiting for Daisy all these years; the car accident ; the murder ; the funeral... but I still don't finish the book feeling sad. There remains a sense of peace almost. Do you agree? What were your thoughts at the end? No, I still felt very sad at the end! Gatsby's whole story was just so tragic, and the indifference and self-absorption of almost all the people around him was depressing.
18. Were you surprised when Gatsby wanted Daisy to not just profess her love for him, but to say she never loved Tom? Is that fair? No it's not fair, but I think Gatsby had so built up his relationship with Daisy and the significance of it in his own mind that he couldn't bear to think their love had been "tarnished" by her loving someone else (even the man she was married to).
19. Have you wondered what would've happened to Gatsby if he did go away like Nick had advised? Would he ever have been happy without Daisy? I don't think he would've ultimately been happy with Daisy. The way she herself ran away to let Gatsby deal with the aftermath of the accident by himself tells me that she was much more concerned about herself than she was about him.
20. Nick tries valiantly to find people to attend the funeral. Your thoughts on Klipspringer calling to see if the butler can return his shoes? Nick says he felt "a certain shame for Gatsby". Do you agree?
This was so horribly sad. I have attended more than the typical number of funerals in the past year, so it is fresh in my mind how seeing other people coming to mourn their loved ones can be comforting to family members. The idea that all of these people who were all too willing to be entertained by Gatsby on a daily basis, none could be bothered to show up at his funeral is horrible.
21. Final thoughts on the book? Have you seen the recent movie and how do you think it compared? I have not seen the movie adaptations. I thought Fitzgerald's writing in this book was so beautiful.
Christine wrote: "I finally managed to get around to this book. This was a first time read for me, and I loved it!!!Chapters 7-9
Comments and Questions
17. I see so many tragic elements to this story... Gatsby w..."
Can I be honest? I was thinking so much about how horrible it was for GATSBY to not have anyone at his funeral, that I never stopped and thought about how horrible it must have been for his father. But you are right; having people who loved your loved one come to the funeral helps a lot.
I am glad that you enjoyed the book!!
I finally finished. Here is my review. It's sewhat comparative between the movie and book. Hopefully someone save the movie also and we can chat about the differences and such. (view spoiler)
Mod
Every day I have opened it and read a couple pages, but I can't seem to get into it. I've seen the movie and I loved the clothing, musics, architecture, ect. It was so ..."
I understand what you mean. When I first read this book (before I saw the movie) I was disappointed, and although I did appreciate it, I didn't really understand all the fuss was about. I have to say that I found the movie much more engaging and enjoyable. Now having re-read the book, I *really* enjoyed the re-read. In fact, I think I will read it again in another year. There is actually a lot of layers to the book and subtleties that I think benefit from re-reads and time
Mod
Yes, I think that is one of the (many) tragedies in this book. To have lost a child would be so horrific, but then also to discover that no-one attended your child's funeral... I just can't imagine the gaping whole that would leave in your soul
Jennifer wrote: "I planned on reading this. Every day I have opened it and read a couple pages, but I can't seem to get into it. I've seen the movie and I loved the clothing, musics, architecture, ect. It was so ..."
I'm about to start this book...I must admit that I tried to read it before and only got to like page 2. I'm not good with classics because of language, but with this book...I just wasn't connecting with the story.
Karen wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Can I be honest? I was thinking so much about how horrible it was for GATSBY to not have anyone at his funeral, that I never stopped and thought about how horrible it must have been..."It makes me want to cry just thinking about it!! Where's my tissues (or pets) when I need them to cry into?!
And his father believed such wonderful things about him...I just wanted to give him a big hug! Thank God Nick was so nice to him, that he didn't break his beliefs.
Natalie wrote: "Karen wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Can I be honest? I was thinking so much about how horrible it was for GATSBY to not have anyone at his funeral, that I never stopped and thought about how horrible it ..."It was pretty horrible. He had the picture of the house in his wallet & the copy of a book Gatsby had written in as a boy. That was how you felt the loss the most keenly, everyone else was so detached.
I finally finished. Took me a long time to read. The writing was beautiful but the characters were so superficial and detached even in their relationships, I found it a struggle to read. I personally found it depressing.
Mod
It was.It certainly made you feel. You felt bad for Daisy. You felt bad for Gatsby. I even found Jordan's character to be sad. Wasn't overly fond of Nick -- which probably aided in my struggle. There didn't seem to be single real relationship anywhere. Everything was pretend. Imagining living a life like that depressed me. I did find it quite condemning of the lifestyle and the people.
I was intrigued by your comments about the similarities between Daisy & Zelda and did some googling which I think did help me with the read. Didn't make it any less sad though -- lol!
Mod
Well maybe give it some time and then read a book about Zelda and you'll probably join even more dots ;)
Karen wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "I planned on reading this. Every day I have opened it and read a couple pages, but I can't seem to get into it. I've seen the movie and I loved the clothing, musics, architecture..."
Thanks Karen! I will follow your lead and reread it sometime. I think if I go in trying to see the depth, rather than going in expecting to be dazzled, I will really enjoy it a lot more.
Joi wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "I planned on reading this. Every day I have opened it and read a couple pages, but I can't seem to get into it. I've seen the movie and I loved the clothing, musics, architecture..."
Joi, I felt the same way. I do have to say that by the end I really cared about Gatsby. I think having the narrator build more of a relationship with him, helps the reader to connect also. I enjoyed seeing the rise and fall of a beloved character.
I would suggest reading the parts that are a little boring quickly to get past them. If it's the language that trips you up, maybe you could read a loud? There were a couple pages that I really loved and read aloud (with an attempted accent where I saw fit- haha) and it make it much better.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
The Great Gatsby (other topics)The Great Gatsby (other topics)
Woah okay I'm a little overwhelmed by the questions.
1. I think one of the main reasons I didn’t particularly like reading this in class was that younger people tend to glorify the wealth and leisure in the book. However, when I read, I tend to think wealth and leisure are being demonized and/or criticized. What phrases or quotes have you found that capture these two conflicting ideas? Do you think the tone of the narrator influences us in either direction?
Um... nothing specific? I guess just the way the rich people are, all kind of self absorbed and dumb shows it?
2. In Chapter 4, we see that Gatsby carries around little souvenirs of his past. Why do you think he is inclined to do so? We see that Jordan doesn’t believe in the stories about Oxford and, at first, neither does our narrator. Why not? After we see how honest Gatsby has been in trying to meet Daisy again (at the end of Chapter 4), does it make him seem more believable or less?
Well when he's shown the souvenirs and stuff he starts to believe Gatsby's story more. So it seems likely that that's why he keeps them around.
3. Geography plays a decidedly important role in this book. What descriptions of geography/city/landscape in chapters 4-6 symbolize something more than just setting?
Uh. Well there's the whole east egg and west egg thing. I didn't really notice anything specific in these chapters though.
4. Describe how you view Jordan Baker. What is her role/purpose in this novel? Why is our narrator drawn to her?
It's kind of interesting that's she's independent and has her own claim to fame and recognition.
5. Do you find the relationship between Gatsby and Daisy romantic? If not, explain why. If so, what does she symbolize to him besides just love?
It seems kind of romantic I guess? I'm focusing a lot less on that though and a lot more on Tom and Daisy. I just don't understand why they're together? Even though they don't really seem very interesting in each other.
6. Describe how Chapters 4 and 5 portray America in the 20s. Some suggestions of topics: the dichotomy between old and new wealth, British influence, the promise of the American dream, and/or the rise of mob culture.
Er... maybe it's because I'm not american but I have absolutely no idea.
7. What does Dan Cody offer James Gatz? What does this opportunity say about Gatsby’s relationship with the people around him—especially Daisy?
8. Bonus! If anybody has read a biography about F Scott Fitzgerald or his wife, Zelda, how do you see this book reflecting or contrasting with their own lives?
I haven't read it though I did skim a book on why authors dedicate their books to who they do called Once Again to Zelda so...