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The Red Fairy Book
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Greetings all, I have red two little stories from The Red Fairy.. I will read another tonight. I am compteting The Dreamer's Pool by Juliet Marillier.
Carole wrote: "Greetings all, I have red two little stories from The Red Fairy.. I will read another tonight. I am compteting The Dreamer's Pool by Juliet Marillier."Just picked up Dreamer's Pool. I love Juliet Marillier.
Started off. I fixated on this version of "The Twelve Dancing Princesses" when I was young; it was a surprise to read the Brothers Grimm version.
And he did have a tendency to go for Marie-Catharine d'Aulnoy for French fairy tales. She had her points, but literary is putting it mildly.
What memories this brings back. "The Wonderful Birch" was my favorite Cinderella tale when I was a child, and I'm still fond of it. "The Death of Koschei The Deathless" is, I think, somewhat more simplified than most variants of "Marya Morevna" I have read.
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If you look at the end of the stories in the book, they may list his sources -- in fact, more often than not, but not always. This is a complete list:http://www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlan...
Sometimes there's internal evidence, such as with the hero of The Blue Mountains being an Irishman, one can suspect that the source was, if not Irish, of Irish extraction.
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In the Grimm's version it is "an old soldier returned from war", who "rescues" the princesses and in this version it's a young cow herder.
In this version Star Gazer, the young boy, gets his magic from the mysterious woman in his dream ( an Angel? A Fairy?) where as in Grimm's the man( I think his name is never given, or?) from an "old woman"( also a Fairy? Or a Witch?), who gives him an enchanted cloak that makes him invisible.
In both versions the princesses are not so nice.
In the Grimm's ( I think I have to reread) it is the King who puts the princes to death after they fail to find out how the princesses are wearing out their slippers. So the princesses are uncaring.
In this version it is the princesses giving the princes a magical potion making and enslaving them to only want to dance. So more devious.
Any thoughts?
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"RED TWELVE DANCING PRINCESSES Unknown. (without bibliography by Lang)"
I know from time to time that Lang would combine elements from a couple of different stories. For instance, check out Surlalune's footnotes to "Beauty and the Beast": http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/be...
Oh, hey! I just realized I bought Twelve Dancing Princesses Tales From Around the World when it was on sale earlier this month and I checked their notes. They say:
Andrew Lang used a translation of a French tale, “Les Douze Princesses Dansantes,” by Charles Deulin found in his Contes du Roi Cambinus (1874). Deulin credited his primary source as the Grimms’ tale with some motifs borrowed from Giambattista Basile’s Cat Cinderella (Cenerentola) and his own artistic license.
So, not Grimms, but another version which was based on Grimms.
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"RED TWELVE DANCING PRINCESSES Unknown. (without bibliography by Lang)"
..."
That is it's a French retelling of the Grimm's makes sense.
I've put Twelve Dancing Princesses Tales From Around the World on my to read list. Or maybe we can read it here?
Also I think the Grimm's version is called The Worn Out Slippers is it not?
Jalilah wrote: "This is very interesting! I just read the first story, one of my all time favourites, 12 Dancing Princesses. There are several major differences to the one I know from the Grimm brothers. I have looked, but can not find the who is credited for the version in this book. "On internal evidence-- particularly the verse at the end -- it's probably French.
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Also I think the Grimm's version is called The Worn Out Slippers is it not? ..."
Sometimes the Grimms' version is titled "The Shoes That Were Danced to Pieces".
I'm of two minds on these single tale anthologies. One one hand, reading them all together helps you appreciate the differences. On the other, reading thirty or forty variations on the same tale in close succession might get a bit repetitive... I'm game to try it - which is why I bought the anthology - but I might not want to finish them all in a short period of time.
I just finished the second story, "Princess Mayblossom". I had to laugh at the "love interest" being so cowardly that he was literally hiding behind the princess when danger came. That's definitely not the way fairy tales usually go! I believe this particular story is new to me.
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When I think about it, as much as I love that tale I don't think I'd want to read 15 versions in a row! Maybe a "12 Dancing Princesses" theme might be better.
"Princess Mayblossom" was definitely one of the literary tales. It can be interesting to read them.
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I did not like the way the witch was described as " ugly, dark skinned" and speaking in a strange language, but I do consider the time in which it was written.
Soria Moria Castle had similarities with East of the Sun West of the Moon being by P C Asbjornsen. The later is definitely as stronger story, but I still liked the former.
Oh, yes, the Quest for the Lost Wife and the Search for the Lost Husband have -- a lot in common.
Jalilah wrote: "Princess Mayblossom was unusual because she actually does not end up with her first "love at first sight" love interest. He ends up being a real jerk.You notice how she is cured of that (view spoiler).
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Unfortunately, I think you just have to expect that sort of thing from Western European writers of that era.
"The Death of Koshchei the Deathless" was pretty odd. Marya Morevna was a good enough fighter to defeat and imprison Koshchei, yet she had to wait patiently for her husband to rescue her? So a competent fighter has to be rescued by a lucky trickster Hm. Maybe instead of just trying to flee, he should have brought her an enchanted sword.
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The Enchanted Pig also had many elements of East of the Sun West of the Moon. How twisted though to cut off your finger for a husband who is a pig and rolls in the mud then asks you to kiss him! Even if he is actually a handsome man...she certainly went though a lot!
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The Enchanted Pig also had many elements ..."
Same here. I'd assumed that because Lang collected from well-known anthologies that I would have already read most of the stories but so far I've only read a couple of them so far!
With "The Enchanted Pig" - she went through a LOT! Not just the kiss but three years of traveling with an infant over rough terrain while wearing three pair of iron shoes? Ouch!
Margaret wrote: "I've read the first 4 or so. The gender dynamics are interesting! [spoilers removed]"
I agree! Many of the women to have a lot of control here.
He filled up twelve volumes. He needed a lot of sources.Though I'm re-reading the whole series, and coming to the conclusion that he really started going far in The Yellow Fairy Book. On the other hand, there's only about twenty fairy tales that are really popular, so you can rely on people knowing them, and the unknowns include English, French, and German ones
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Were it made into a film it would be a horror movie!
Evil witch turning the mother into a sheep and taking her place as a fake mom, then killing the poor sheep and eating her! Really creepy! And the husband has no clue that his original wife has been replaced and murdered.
( this all takes place in the first page so I am hoping no one will find it a spoiler) The rest of the story has elements of Cinderella, the more brutal German version,Ashenputel.
Yes, and then it goes to -- explicate why you want to make sure to burn the stepmother or use some other method of execution at the wedding.The Wonderful Birch is one of my favorite Cinderella variants.
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And here is a translation of Asbjornsen and Moe.http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/au...
A fairly old one, since it's public domain. Indeed, it's the one J.R.R. Tolkien talks about in On Fairy-stories
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I have all of Lang's colored fairy books on my Kindle (of course, since they're free), but I haven't gotten around to reading this one yet! Going to get on that right now. ;)
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The main character runs across a random helpful stranger who, unprompted, advises him to ignore the first two princesses but obey the third. Now, ignoring a polite princess asking for help is normally something that you wouldn't want to do and generally that wouldn't turn out well, but since he was following orders, everything was fine...
Now, my question: Is there any story where the main character follows a stranger's advice to his detriment? I.E. an unhelpful stranger who is deliberately sabotaging the protagonist by giving bad advice?
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The main character runs across a random helpful stranger who, unprompted, advises him to ignore the fi..."
Off the top I can think of the Golden Branch. An old woman tells the ugly Princess turned into pretty Shepherdness to go to the sorcerers house who turns her into a grasshopper!
If the stranger hires him, sure. "The Master Maid" -- the prince finds the title maid by going into the room where he was forbidden to go. Or "The Magician's Horse."
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That was terrible! And none of the brothers seem bothered by it.
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But I guess that's fairy tale logic for you!
The brothers - well, the horses wouldn't be theirs anyway, and I'm sure one horse is less work than a dozen foals a year.
You guys must be a little ahead of me... I have a little over a hundred pages left.
Margaret wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "I couldn't read the J. Moe tale Dabblegrim because it bothered me too much that he requested that the young man kill all the baby horses!"That was terrible! And none of the brothers seem bothered by it.
They live on a farm. They are used to killing animals. Whenever they set a hen to raise more egg layers, they would kill the male chicks as soon as they were of edible size. Also the male calves when they breed their dairy cows. Etc.
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That was terrible! And n..."
Yes, but horses?
Though I understand about fairy tale logic! Kate Bernheimer has a good essay on fairy tale logic that can be read free: http://www.katebernheimer.com/images/...
It's about more than just logic.
But the horse killing does seem logical in a way, in terms of making Dapplegrim bigger. Sort of dark magic logic--death gives more life to another.
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Well, yes, but you don't generally kill foals for food, pelts, etc, so it seems wasteful. Though it's a Norwegian tale and I know it's different in some areas of Europe, so, let me check the all-powerful wiki...
In Norway, horse meat is commonly used in cured meats, such as vossakorv and svartpølse, and less commonly as steak, hestebiff.
In pre-Christian Norway, horse was seen as an expensive animal. To eat a horse was to show one had great wealth, and to sacrifice a horse to the gods was seen as the greatest gift one could give. When Norwegians adopted Christianity, horse-eating became taboo as it was a religious act for pagans, and thus it was considered a sign of heresy.[90]
Interesting! Especially the "to sacrifice a horse to the gods was seen as the greatest gift one could give." bit!
Horses are expensive. I forget the exact amount, but a horse needs a lot more food to produce as much protein as a cow. Twice as much, IIRC. Slaughtering them for meat is therefore inefficient. Raise as many horses as you need for riding and for draft animals, and no more, unless you're into conspicuous consumption.A corollary of that would be killing superfluous foals, if you can't sell them.
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Well, yes, but you don't generally kill foals for food, pelts, etc, so it seems wasteful. Though it's a Norwegian tale and..."
Interesting! Definitely puts the fable in perspective.
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Foals! I'd already returned the book to the library when I wrote "baby horses" yesterday. I couldn't remember what they were called, fillies, colts?
I see your point.
But still.... killing 12, so one's could drink all the milk, for 2 or was it 3 years ago seemed excessive.
Into the Forest
Books mentioned in this topic
Tolkien On Fairy-stories (other topics)Dreams of Gods & Monsters (other topics)
The Yellow Fairy Book (other topics)
Twelve Dancing Princesses: Tales from Around the World (other topics)
Twelve Dancing Princesses: Tales from Around the World (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
J.R.R. Tolkien (other topics)Madame d'Aulnoy (other topics)
Juliet Marillier (other topics)
This thread is for The Red Fairy Book, collected by Andrew Lang.
I'm assuming that since many of us have probably read variations on most of these stories already, we probably don't need separate spoiler/spoiler-free threads. I've never read any Andrew Lang, though, (shame on me!) so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.