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4Q pt 2: Faces and Masks (Memory of Fire pt 2)
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1) I don't recall actually spotting the title in this section so I am guessing it refers to all the different people who say one thing and then go ahead and do something totally different.
2) How colonialism is only interested in personal gain and how it moved from wanting sugar to slaves to gold to guano.
3) There were several that I loved in this book some of them are "The Snack Clock" as this is how I run my day. "The Virgin of Guadalope Versus the Virgin of Remedios" "Hildalgo" the priest who walks around reading. "Women" the women who stay and fight while the men flee. "The Ideas of Simon Rodriguez: Teaching How to Think" forward thinking. "Into the Beyond" the story of the buffalo leaving the land. "Tangoing" I love seeing how the music and the dance borrowed from all the cultural influences that were present.
4) The only one I noticed was "You" and it did make me wonder. I am assuming that is something the author has written without using other sources. This one was specifically aimed at the reader so maybe it was to emphasize that we all had a roll in history.
5) Personally I think it is probably accurate it shows that the early "Americans" are immigrants from other places who take advantage of the people they find already in place and use their power and money to change the very nature of the land they have come to inhabit. They bring with them their own religious and cultural beliefs and then proceed to force these on the first peoples.
6) Colonialism has shaped the map so even today we are still a product of it. I would say in terms of today the west is still using its power to oppress other people who have something we need or who don't follow our rules you can see that with the middle east and oil etc.
7) History is always told by the winners this gives the view from the point of view of those who lost. It dispels the myth of the superior "white man" bringing civilisation.
8) I am loving this so far and yes I am excited to start the third and final book.
2) How colonialism is only interested in personal gain and how it moved from wanting sugar to slaves to gold to guano.
3) There were several that I loved in this book some of them are "The Snack Clock" as this is how I run my day. "The Virgin of Guadalope Versus the Virgin of Remedios" "Hildalgo" the priest who walks around reading. "Women" the women who stay and fight while the men flee. "The Ideas of Simon Rodriguez: Teaching How to Think" forward thinking. "Into the Beyond" the story of the buffalo leaving the land. "Tangoing" I love seeing how the music and the dance borrowed from all the cultural influences that were present.
4) The only one I noticed was "You" and it did make me wonder. I am assuming that is something the author has written without using other sources. This one was specifically aimed at the reader so maybe it was to emphasize that we all had a roll in history.
5) Personally I think it is probably accurate it shows that the early "Americans" are immigrants from other places who take advantage of the people they find already in place and use their power and money to change the very nature of the land they have come to inhabit. They bring with them their own religious and cultural beliefs and then proceed to force these on the first peoples.
6) Colonialism has shaped the map so even today we are still a product of it. I would say in terms of today the west is still using its power to oppress other people who have something we need or who don't follow our rules you can see that with the middle east and oil etc.
7) History is always told by the winners this gives the view from the point of view of those who lost. It dispels the myth of the superior "white man" bringing civilisation.
8) I am loving this so far and yes I am excited to start the third and final book.
Love your responses Book :)Makes me excited to read this part, just want to clear Another World, and then I'll be on it. I was expecting to get to it earlier, but had to read Cat's Eye in hard copy since none of the audio services would let me get it as a non-American lol.
I just finished reading this. I will post comments this weekend. I thought I was not going to appreciate going back to the same formatting which was so unique in the first book but projected would get tiresome by the second. However, it easily carried me through. I am really looking forward to the modern day third book.
Questions:1) Why do you think Faces and Masks was chosen as the title for this section? What does it refer to?
There is a Mask referred to toward the end of this book:
"We were a mask, with trousers from England, Parisian vest, jacket from North America, and cap from Spain...We were palettes and togas, in countries that came into the world with sandaled feet and banded hair..."
I think the mask refers to how the true nature of the Americas has been hidden by the economic subjugation and how the true face of the people has been hidden by the conquerer's history.
2) This book takes place from the 1700s to the year 1900, and encapsulates most of the colonial era. What is something you learned about colonial history or a country mentioned in this book?
Almost too many to mention. I didn't really understand how the flooding of cheap materials and manufactured goods into developing countries crushed their local economies. I am well aware of that happening in modern times but the fact that it was happening in the 1800's was new to me although it shouldn't have been. Also, the whole sad story of Paraguay, I really had no idea about.
3) What was one of your favorite/stand out vignettes from this section and why?
This is silly given the deep and troubled nature of most of the stories in the book but the vignette where, because they had no idea what caused cholera, the Mexican government banned certain vegetables and fruits and a coachman, about to eat a juicy Inca fruit called a chirimoya decides instead to give it to his wife:
"You eat it, my love"
4) Most of the vignettes are coded by date and place, but a handful are not (ex, Promise of America, You, Mermaids, The prophet, many more), why do you think the author made this choice?
I found many of the unlabeled and undated ones to be more generally "true" of the Americas rather than specific. For example, some of them are just lists. Also, some of them are more editorializing from the author's point of view.
5) As this section progresses, the author shifts from taking aim at the power structures of colonial Spain and Portugal to that of the United States of America. How do you feel about this book's representation of the historical US?
I really enjoyed this look at US history from Old Abe to the genocide we visited on the natives. It simply rang true as do the other vignettes in the book. However, I have to admit I was surprised by how he depicts England as an evil villain for its economic manipulation and loan structures throughout South America not just Guyana and the Caribbean. As England had so few colonies in South America I had never thought much about their impact there.
6) In what ways do you think the colonial era has continued to shape the present? and do you see any parallels of any of these stories to our current society?
Echoing Book, the impact of colonial structures continues to be felt throughout the globe. The choice that the US made to umbrella the Philippines under US domination caused terrible repercussions that the people there feel today. Although the conqueror often intermarried or at least had children with the native population, there is a way in which the mixed races have a much larger presence in Central and South America than other parts of the world.
7) In what way does this book address misconceptions about our conventional understandings of history?
One of the things I love about the book is that it is slowly and brilliantly teaching us about a way to look at capitalism not just colonialism. His vignettes and his weaving of common themes begins to tell one story out of the many. History can be about individual people who are impacted in singular individual ways and it can be about a bringing the story of those people together to tell a very different history that is not the story of 'progress' as it so often is in classic western history.
8) How are you enjoying this book so far? Are you excited about pt 3?
Yes, I am loving it and am looking forward to part 3
1) Why do you think Faces and Masks was chosen as the title for this section? What does it refer to?I love Gail's response to this question.
2) This book takes place from the 1700s to the year 1900, and encapsulates most of the colonial era. What is something you learned about colonial history or a country mentioned in this book?
I learned in school about Latin American history from the white male and colonizer perspectives. It is refreshing to hear history told from the perspective of the colonized. It is quite different from how I was taught.
3) What was one of your favorite/stand out vignettes from this section and why?
There were so many to list. "Silver Portrait" and "They Carry Life in Their Hair" come to mind.
4) Most of the vignettes are coded by date and place, but a handful are not (ex, Promise of America, You, Mermaids, The prophet, many more), why do you think the author made this choice?
My guess is that they are not ties to a specific place or time, but rather apply to Latin America in general.
5) As this section progresses, the author shifts from taking aim at the power structures of colonial Spain and Portugal to that of the United States of America. How do you feel about this book's representation of the historical US?
Very eye-opening. Again, it goes back to my response to question 2. I concur with Book's response.
6) In what ways do you think the colonial era has continued to shape the present? and do you see any parallels of any of these stories to our current society?
Exploitation and oppression during the colonial era continues to shape the present in a lot of negative ways too numerous to list. A few of the effects include inequality, racial and ethnic tensions, problems in economic development post-independence, etc.
7) In what way does this book address misconceptions about our conventional understandings of history?
See response to #2.
8) How are you enjoying this book so far? Are you excited about pt 3?
Love this book so far. Look forward to reading the final installment.
Once again, Great answers all. I especially loved Gail's comment about how this is about capitalism not just political colonialism because the 2 are inseparable. So often I was taught growing up that slavery was wrong, buying from sweatshops is wrong, and it's sad that so many developing countries that produce so many raw goods "happen" to be poor and have repressive regimes in ways that made it seem unrelated to our actions as capitalist societies, and the economic exploitation we reap from these countries. But it's not, at all. These are direct effects of unregulated capitalist exploitation, and I felt this book did an amazing job contextualizing this as well. To answer the questions:
1) I loved both Gail’s and Book’s answers to this question and agree. It can refer to both forced appropriation of Wester standards and the lies of the image of colonial history vs. the truth.
2) I didn’t know about Principe, the city founded by a former slave woman (Jacinta de Siquiera), so that was cool. Learning about the extent to which the US claimed Mexican land was also fascinating, did not realize exactly how much the US took from Mexico.
3) Oh, so many! Portrait of the Indians exploring how First Nations people did not get the Christian idea of hell, and asked “will my friends be there?”, I liked the section was just “Street Cries in the Santiago de Chile Market” because it really gave a sense of what market life would have sounded like in the 1800s, “In Defense of Indolence” because I like it when people tear the capitalist use of the protestant work ethic ethos a new one “a pitiful system that makes man a miserable servant of the machine…capitalist ethics, a pitiful parody of Christian ethics” is such a great quote, and my favorite was “The other America” which I want to quote for another question.
4) Agreed that some of them are generalized or personalized, or include folklore that is not specific to a time or place.
5) I loved this aspect of the book so much. I feel like mainstream US culture/education has not had to square itself with its horrific past/present in the way that I feel other nations like England, Germany, and Italy have (to some extent) better come to terms with their history of imperialism. I think it has a lot to do with the US being the current superpower. I’ve always found things like the pledge of allegiance, the way America seems to pedestalize and deify the founding fathers, and the way many politicians and pundits legitimately believe the US to be a global defender of freedom and the objectively best country in the world…weird at least, horrifying at most. I loved how in “the other America” Jose Marti says “Two condors, and two lambs unite without much danger as a condor and a lamb…whoever says economic union says political union” about ties between the US and Cuba. I thought that was just an amazing way of putting it. I feel he was ultimately fair too: he had positive passages about Lincoln and Mark Twain that I really liked. I don’t think people have to be demonizing to the US or its history: just more balanced and critical.
6) So many ways: racial inequity and literal countries divides, as previous mentioned by others. We still honestly live in an age of merchants, with corporations often wielding more power than governments, which is a hallmark of the colonial age. Ava Duvernay’s film “The 13th” does an amazing job of showing how slavery morphed easily into Jim Crow Laws and current profiling culture to maintain the racial injustice behind the Prison Industrial Complex (itself a clear successor to things like the mines of the colonial age).
7) I think what I put in the blurb before answering the questions really gets at this one: the misconception that political and economic history are separate. The myth of colonizers as liberators and civilizers.
8) I loved this book, and I just finished part 3 yesterday and loved it as well. Overall, gave memory of five 5 stars. I think Galeano was a very gifted and special writer.
Mod
"mask, with trousers from England, Parisian vest, jacket from North America, and cap from Spain …We were epaulettes and togas, in countries that came into the world with sandaled feet and banded hair … Neither the European book, nor the Yanqui book, has provided the key to the Hispanic American enigma …" Americas have struggled, like any infant, growing through adolescence to find their own identity. You realize how young Americas are when you travel to Europe or the Middle East or Asia. Also the outside influences made it especially hard for countries in South America, Central America, and Mexico to find their own identity. In fact, they set up road blocks to prevent this.
2. It was so much fun to study history this way. I enjoyed seeing references to such things as literary figures; Dumas, Whitman, Melville, Machardo de Assis (Dom Casmurro). What I learned. I new that Peru was known for fertilizer and it was interesting to learn about the Guano trade and the emergent of Nitrate industry, how slavery kept rearing up as those with greed kept filling their pockets at the expense of people deprived of rights to live life, the effects that slavery had on economics (the pros and the cons).
3. Pretty much answered in #2.
4. The vignettes not numbered were like poems from peoples that lived during this time even tho they were probably the author's.
5. I was glad that the author included the US because it is apart of America and I enjoyed the placing of our history in context with the history o all of America. I thought it was a fair representation. I think we are an arrogant country but in fact we are young, and also struggling with our identity. I've read a bit about Teddy Rosevelt and felt that it was accurate. And our conquests of lands such as Philippines, Samoa, Mariannes.
6. This is a hard question. I am sure there is still "stuff" going on but this book made me want to identify more with my fellow Americans in S. America, C America, and Mexico. I would like to ask more questions rather than assume their identity. Do they know "identity". Are they like us of European backgrounds that like to claim our European heritage? Politically, are these countries still struggling to come into their own heritage and independence. I suspect so.
7. History is always suspect. It is one persons reality and does not encompass the reality of another person necessarily.
8. I really like this book and have great hopes to finish last section before midnight but if not I will get it done within the 5 day grace period. I am looking forward to placing history in context of my grandparents born in early 1900s and my parents born around the Great Depression and my self a "baby boomer".
1. Faces are the legitimate indigenous people and Masks are the accoutrements of the Old World which are copied in the New. At this time local arts and beliefs were devalued and those brought from "civilisation" were revered. The more I think about it, the more I think it is a brilliant title which summarises the theme.2. I learnt so much. Once again I was learning geography from Google maps. I realise I had a very sketchy idea of where different countries are in relation to each other and how their boundaries changed. I knew nothing of the war perpetrated by Brazil, Uruguay and Chile against Paraguay. And I had never thought what Coca and Cola stood for or where the Para rubber company started.
3. i think José Marti's quote was the most powerful. Also the teachings of Simón Rodrįguez, which really still resonatevwith me..
4. I thought that the undated vignettes were authorial comment to begin with, but others, like soldiers' songs (p257 and 233) were clearly not his invention, so I concluded that they were pieces which he could not attribute to a particular source.
5. Too kind.
6. There are parallels with New Zealand's history of clash between British and Maori, although our history is much more benign. Nevertheless land was confiscated without recompense, although now, 150 odd years later, government compensation is being paid. I used to amuse myself when someone from the U.S. confused me with an Australian and I would laughingly retort "That's O.K. I thought you were ...Mexican" and watch the shock on their faces. Ot more topically, Trump being able to describe everyone south of the border as a rapist - and not be prosecuted for hate speech! White suprematist propaganda being spoken on national TV stations in both the U.S. and Europe shows that antiquated ideas about race as a concept are still widespread.
7. I would hate to think that history was still taught from the point of view of the victors. My understanding is that it relies much more on examining primary sources, of which this book has assembled a marvellous collection. My hope is that history everywhere is taught this way. New Zealand has just made our history a compulsory subject in schools, so that ignorance of exploitation will no longer be an excuse.
8. I am finding this book such an education that I am going to read volume 3 before I read any 2020 challenges.
Mod
I am reading volume 3 before starting my 2020 books too
Mod
Book Summary (from Amazon):
The second volume of Eduardo Galeano's Memory of Fire trilogy, Faces and Masks is an astonishing Latin American-eye view of the New World in the making. Here is the tangled, cataclysmic history of our hemisphere from the 1700s up to the dawn of our present century, told through characters as resonant and compelling as Simon Bolívar, Toussaint L'Ouverture, and Billy the Kid. With its brilliant and imaginative blend of journalism, scholarship, and political passion, Faces and Masks is a panoramic interpretation of the Americas no work of history has previously imagined.
Questions:
1) Why do you think Faces and Masks was chosen as the title for this section? What does it refer to?
2) This book takes place from the 1700s to the year 1900, and encapsulates most of the colonial era. What is something you learned about colonial history or a country mentioned in this book?
3) What was one of your favorite/stand out vignettes from this section and why?
4) Most of the vignettes are coded by date and place, but a handful are not (ex, Promise of America, You, Mermaids, The prophet, many more), why do you think the author made this choice?
5) As this section progresses, the author shifts from taking aim at the power structures of colonial Spain and Portugal to that of the United States of America. How do you feel about this book's representation of the historical US?
6) In what ways do you think the colonial era has continued to shape the present? and do you see any paralells of any of these stories to our current society?
7) In what way does this book address misconceptions about our conventional understandings of history?
8) How are you enjoying this book so far? Are you excited about pt 3?
Discuss!