"The Dream-Quest of Vellitt Boe" by Kij Johnson (BR)

[Kaa]

Yay for Lovecraftian fantasy! (No affection for or knowledge of Lovecraft required, but this article will familiarize you with the Lovecraft story upon which Vellitt Boe is based.) Anna says we should read this novella this weekend, so here we go. Please use spoiler tags and indicate the chapter/percent.

Bonus: color map if the version in your book isn't very good.

(H/t to Anna for the wiki link and Raucous for the map)

[Gabi]

I'm curious what we've gotten ourselves into. Those ad hoc reads are the most fun!

[Anna]

You don't absolutely have to read it now, and I'm sorry I rushed everyone! I hope it's worth it! :)

[Kaa]

I was happy for the excuse to read it right away!

[Anna]

Haha, good! And I agree, I hate waiting months and months for a BR, it's great when the tentacles align and everyone can start right away!

[Jemppu]

I'm so intrigued by this sudden mystery read <:D

[Gabi]

Anna wrote: "You don't absolutely have to read it now, and I'm sorry I rushed everyone! I hope it's worth it! :)"

In Anna we trust! :D

[Anna]

Oh no, I'm going to have to book a week long vacation to somewhere without wifi :D

[Meredith]

This is too tantalizing, and I'll be hanging out with my family this weekend, so it can't hurt to have something distracting to read on my phone, just in case.

[Oleksandr]

Kaa wrote: "Yay for Lovecraftian fantasy! (No affection for or knowledge of Lovecraft required, but this article will familiarize you "

If only I knew it earlier! I've read the novella a year ago or so and I understood that it is a kind of response to Lovecraft but w/o almost any knowledge of his works it was a rather average read for me. Now I think whether I have time to read the link and then re-read the story...

[Gabi]

So ... after having read the link with the Lovecraftian reference I am utterly confused and can start the story :D.

[Anna]

Utterly confused isn't a great way to start a quest, I hope you don't get lost in there! Report back periodically, so we know you're fine! :D

[Anna]

Is anyone reading this who does know Lovecraft? I know Allison will try to read it with us, but I think she's pretty busy this weekend. (Sorry about roping you into yet another Lovecraftian thing, I swear I don't know how this keeps happening XD)

Anyway, I reread the first 12%, and even though the quest hasn't even started yet, I already feel like I can't process all the Lovecraftiness. So many things and places! The map on Tor.com is beautiful, maybe if I stare at it long enough I'll feel like I know all the places?

[Anna]

21%

(view spoiler)[ I'm enjoying the quiet travel with an old(er) woman and her cat companion ^_^ I'm still not a cat person, but I do enjoy good animal stories. I read The Cat Who Walked a Thousand Miles last night, and I think I'm still feeling travelling cat vibes :) (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

I'm at 15% and so far the confusion of the Lovecraft summary hasn't manifested itself here. (luckily!) Yet (view spoiler)[ I really want to know now how the sky in this dreamworld looks like. Made me very curious. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

@Gabi: I agree, the summary of the original Lovecraft story is... bizarre. Hopefully the novella is easier to follow!

[Anna]

I mean, Lovecraft is bizarre?

[Kaa]

Hah, true. I more meant that, in comparison to say, The Horror at Red Hook, which I also read summarized on a wikipedia page and was able to more or less grasp the story, Dream Quest doesn't make much sense to me as a story yet.

[Anna]

I've read that wiki page at least twice, as well as some other works referencing this story, and I'm reading this novella for the second time, but I can't help you at all! :D

[Anna]

27% (view spoiler)[ I love that dig at Lovecraft and the inclusion of women! (hide spoiler)]

34% Question for people who know Lovecraft: (view spoiler)[ Does Carter meet a Dreamlands woman in the original story? (hide spoiler)]

52% (view spoiler)[ I am definitely enjoying the character of Vellitt much more this time around. I love well written older women in books, especially when they interact with animals :) (hide spoiler)]

[Raucous]

Anna wrote: "27% [spoilers removed]...

(view spoiler)[Yeah. I think this is the one that motivated me go look for more about Lovecraft's views on the subject. Shudder.
(hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

20%: I keep getting hung up on (view spoiler)[the mismatch between what I see on the map and the description of where things are in the book. How are Mount Lerion and the zoog forest both north from Hatheg? Obviously things on the map aren't all to scale, and there's no reason north has to be up, but even in the dream-world it doesn't seem like there should be two directions that are north? (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Anna wrote: "21%

[spoilers removed]"

Same here. I like (view spoiler)[ the description of the world that so far feels a bit like a painting to me. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Kaa wrote: "20%: I keep getting hung up on [spoilers removed]"

Good question, I didn't look at the map so far.

[Gabi]

Anna wrote: "I've read that wiki page at least twice, as well as some other works referencing this story, and I'm reading this novella for the second time, but I can't help you at all! :D"

:D I really should start reading Lovecraft. At least yesterday when I was looking through my partner's books I came across the title "The Cats of Ulthar" - so there's one reference I could place.

[Gabi]

23% I need translation help! (view spoiler)[ '... and the contents of a small bottle of pitch she carried ...' what is 'pitch' in this context? None of the translations I could find makes sense. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Gabi: (view spoiler)[Could it be yeast? As in "pitching yeast" to ferment beer. Later on there's a description of a room smelling like it, so that's what I took it to be. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

@Jemppu, could be.

28% (view spoiler)[ 'for all librarians are the same librarian.' - This has such a Terry Pratchett vibe. Love the idea of interconnected libraries through space and time. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Gabi wrote: "...28% [spoilers removed]"

*hah* (view spoiler)[I must say, I felt bit sorry for librarians for that remark, to be lumped into one like that <:D (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

I'm stopping here and read the Lovecraft story. I have the feeling I need to do this to appreciate this story in the right way. I try to be fast and join the BR again soon. (I have the German HPL translation so I can skim read)

[Anna]

Oh noooooo, no reading of Lovecraft! :o

(Well, at least you can answer my 34% question after you've read it. That's an upside I guess :D)

[Anna]

Gabi wrote: "23% I need translation help! [spoilers removed]"

I think it's (view spoiler)[ tar, to help light the torch (hide spoiler)]

Gabi wrote: "28% [spoilers removed]"

I almost quoted that here, but I was too lazy. It's great! :D

[Anna]

Finished spoilers

(view spoiler)[ I did like it more than the first time, since I actually read all of it instead of skimming, The ghoul parts bored me, otherwise this could've been four stars. My three star rating stands, but this time it's actually honest :D

My intense dislike for Lovecraft did still get in the way, but not so much that I couldn't enjoy this story, Vellitt's persona and some of the very subtle humor. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Anna wrote: "...I think it's [spoilers removed]"

Ah, that makes more sense to be carrying around on one's person :D Thank you!

[Gabi]

Anna wrote: "Oh noooooo, no reading of Lovecraft! :o

(Well, at least you can answer my 34% question after you've read it. That's an upside I guess :D)"

Sorry! I feel so bad for it :D. But so far it is interesting to see that it is indeed rather identical in all the settings and names and (view spoiler)[ the cat eating the zoog (hide spoiler)].

And of course I only undertake this endeavour to be able to answer your question, Anna :D!

[Anna]

Gabi wrote: "And of course I only undertake this endeavour to be able to answer your question, Anna"

So it's my fault someone is reading Lovecraft?! Waaahhh!! ;'(

THIS is my legacy? I'll be known as the person who made people read not only Lovecraftian things but Lovecraft himself?! I'm dedd.

( :P )

[Kaa]

34%: Anna, I had the same question, and went back to the wiki page to see if it would shed any light. As I'm sure you know, it didn't answer that question, but it was nice to re-visit with additional context from this book - it's still confusing, but I could at least make a few connections. I wonder if (view spoiler)[Richard Pickman is the person Vellitt encounters the ghouls with (hide spoiler)] at 23%?

[Anna]

Kaa, I thought that was (view spoiler)[ Carter? I could be wrong. About anything to do with this book! (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

@Anna: Oh, that makes more sense! (view spoiler)[Re-reading the wiki page, it appears that Pickman was a ghoul, and if he's friends with Carter that would explain why Carter can talk to the ghouls. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Terrific … Now I'm confusing myself even more. I'm reading the two books more or less parallel which isn't helping for my poor brain. ^^'

So far, at least, there is no mention of any woman at Lovecraft.

[Anna]

Kaa, there's no reason (view spoiler)[ Vellitt couldn't have been travelling with a ghoul, so who knows :D (hide spoiler)]

Gabi, I would feel sorry for you, but it's your own fault! :P

[Gabi]

Anna wrote: "Gabi, I would feel sorry for you, but it's your own fault! :P"

I know … I suffer quietly … ;)

[Anna]

I fell into the same trap when the group read Winter Tide. I read my first Lovecraft ever and I still hate myself.

[Kaa]

Anna wrote: "Kaa, there's no reason [spoilers removed]"

Ah, clarification at 61%! (view spoiler)[It seems pretty clear from the recollection of Veline's travels with Carter that he was the one she was traveling with when she encountered the ghouls. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

Finished! (view spoiler)[I liked it, even though it doesn't ever really make sense. I like the character of Vellitt Boe and I enjoyed reading about a lot of her journey (although I agree that the part in the underworld goes on too long), and I liked all of the jabs at Lovecraft's treatment of women. The ending, though, was a little abrupt - I felt a bit thrown off by how quickly it was over. (hide spoiler)]

[Anna]

Kaa, I agree with all of that!

[Ian]

Gabi wrote: "23% I need translation help! [spoilers removed]"

If you are asking about the "small bottle of pitch" used to make a torch, the dictionary (on-line Merriam-Webster) definitions of "pitch" that fit best are "a black or dark viscous substance obtained as a residue in the distillation of organic materials and especially tars," and "resin obtained from various conifers and often used medicinally."

("Viscous" means just "having a thick or sticky consistency.")

The Dream-World seems to have the technology of distillation (witness the alcoholic drinks), and I would go with the first as a flammable substance easy to keep at hand in a small container. (It may also be the source of the adjective use in "pitch darkness," which has been in English since at least 1704).

The second meaning (the resin) would probably also work for the purpose, and may be better for "rooms were torchlit, smelling of pitch and sweet resins."

"Pitch" is also used to indicate something at an angle, which is used in the story -- and there are a bunch of other meanings which are probably irrelevant. And there is also a verb, "to throw."

English vocabulary gets complicated.......

[Ian]

As a long-time Lovecraft-reader, I'll point out that his "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" seems to make sense as you read it, episode by episode, but gaps in the logic show up as soon as one tries to analyze it. A summary really doesn't help, and just reveals Lovecraft's weakness at constructing complex plots: things seem to follow each other without logical connections.

(view spoiler)[It may be said to have the logic of a dream, as suggested by the very title, and in fact parts of it are supposed to be based on the author's childhood nightmares. If so, they were mixed with the influence of Lord Dunsany's early dream-world stories, to which there are apparent allusions. Incoherent geography is consistent with the construction of the whole work. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Thanks Anna and Ian for the explanation of "pitch" (come to think of it, there is the Expression "pitch black" in the English language, isn't it?

I've finished (both, this book and the Lovecraft story). (view spoiler)[ I liked the narration of her journey through the Lovecraftian dreamworld, I even enjoyed the underworld passages. Reading Lovecraft parallel makes this fun. Yet I was rather underwhelmed by the descent into the waking world. I can't say what I expected, but not this ... mundane ... ending. Fell quite flat for me. Therefore I join your 3 stars ratings.

For those interested: The actual reading of the Lovecraft story isn't any less confusing than the wiki summary. So no love lost in not having read it. And there is not a single mention of a single woman anywhere. That's what the author of Vellit Boe mentions in the afterword as one of the reasons for writing the story. (hide spoiler)]

But now in to the really important question for Anna: Why was it so urgent to read the book now? (view spoiler)[ As far as I see it has nothing to do with the story itself. Could it concern another book we're reading at the moment? (hide spoiler)]

[Anna]

The answer to Gabi's last question is yes :)