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Bite Night (My Sister the Vampire, #10)
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Sister the Vampire SPOILER > Date with Destiny (MSTV #10)

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message 1: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments Here's the place to discuss the tenth My Sister the Vampire. Beware of spoilers as they are permitted in this discussion!

message 2: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments This is our group read for November 2014. Enjoy!

message 3: by Daisy, The Brains (last edited Nov 24, 2014 02:05AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Here's a quote from this book:

"The Academy," he continued, "has produced some of the finest vampire thespians, artists and Nobel laureates. In fact, it was right here under this very stone archway that Shakespeare wrote his first sonnet."
"Shakespeare was a vampire?" Ivy spluttered.
Horatio Two leaned in and lowered his voice. "In an early draft of Romeo and Juliet, the Montagues were based on a very well-regarded family here in Transylvania." Woah! Just wait till I tell Sophia, Ivy thought. She'll be amazed!

I was thinking that it was a bit weird for Sienna Mercer to pretend that Shakespeare was a vampire here. I'm pretty sure he never went to Transylvania in his lifetime - travel to other countries in those days would have much less common, plus we know his date of birth and death and if he was a vampire he would have lived a lot longer than he did. Just thought it was stretching the truth a little!

I also thought it was strange that Ivy thought to tell Sophia this fact, as opposed to someone like Camilla or something. Why do you think she thought Sophia would find it interesting?

message 4: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments Well, his birth and death dates would just be a cover wouldn't they. Plus, she couldn't tell Camilla because of the vampire secret thing. Sophia's her best friend so naturally she'd think to tell her.

message 5: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Oh, yeah, I forgot Camilla didn't know, lol.

message 6: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments ;)

message 7: by Alexis (new)

Alexis Ehimen | 39 comments What about Olivia?

message 8: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments I don't think Olivia knew about the vampire school yet. Or am I mistaken?

message 9: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Yeah, she did know. Maybe Ivy just thought of Sophia because she was missing her or something.

message 10: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments I just finished this and I really love the part with Tessa's One Heart celebration thing. When those girls didn't even know who Tessa was. rofl!

I also love the part where Olivia falls in the nettles and gets an allergic reaction. This one is really good.

message 11: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Oh, the part with those snooty girls really annoyed me! Like, how could not even know who Tessa was!? lol.

I agree, this is one of the greats. Helga was a really nice new character and I really like her with Horatio. I think that romance would be good for him because at least now he has something to think about that isn't work!

message 12: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments Agreed.

message 13: by S!X (new) - added it

S!X | 21 comments From 'Bite Night'/'Date with Destiny' (MSTV #10):
Ivy wasn’t convinced that they’d been born only minutes apart. Olivia seemed so mature!

Regarding that statement, who do you guys think is the elder twin?
The words 'only minutes' seem to give out a hint. In my opinion, Ivy is the younger sibling. If Olivia was the younger sibling, the statement would have been:
-Ivy wasn’t convinced that they’d been born several minutes apart. Olivia seemed so mature!
-Ivy wasn’t convinced that they’d been born minutes apart. Olivia seemed so mature!

These are only my thoughts, what do you guys think?

message 14: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Ooh, interesting. I think I agree it seems likely Olivia is older. I don't remember which book it was in, but I remember at one point Ivy blamed herself for her mum's death because she thought delivering a vampire was what killed her. If that's the case, getting Olivia out would have been really complicated had she been the younger one, and I feel like that would have been mentioned. Whereas if she was born before Ivy there wouldn't have been that problem. Not sure if that makes any sense but that's my theory!

message 15: by S!X (new) - added it

S!X | 21 comments @Daisy
That's a great theory, I never thought of that before. No wonder you are called 'The Brains'.

message 16: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Aww, thanks, S!X! The nickname isn't me claiming to be clever or anything, it's just because I seem to have a freakishly good memory when it comes to Sienna Mercer's books. It can come in handy with this group, haha. :D

message 17: by S!X (new) - added it

S!X | 21 comments Np, Daisy. Very handy, indeed. :)

message 18: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments On page 178 there is this quote I really want to discuss...
"So you and Mom didn't get the wedding you wanted?" asked Olivia, after a quiet moment had passed.
"No." Charles rubbed the ring he still wore on his left hand. "But I did have a wonderful marriage which is the most important thing."
This is interesting because Ivy and Olivia wear rings from their parents which they were given when they turned 10. This is one of the reasons they realised they were twins when they met. My memory is that they were wedding rings, Olivia wore their mothers and Ivy had their dads which she wore on a necklace because of its larger size. Am I making this all up or do you guys recall this too?

If I am right Charles wouldn't still wear his ring because Ivy would have it. So is this quote a mistake or do you think there is another explanation? Maybe it's an engagement ring (though men don't traditionally get them do they) or Ivy gave it back to him when they discovered he was their bio-dad. Thoughts?

message 19: by Daisy, The Brains (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments Wow, I didn't even notice that! What a good find. I agree with all your points. For one, their rings are definitely their parents' wedding rings; here's a quote from Revamped (MSTV #4), page 243, when the twins have just found a picture of Charles and Susannah on their wedding day:

"Hey, look," she went on, pointing to the happy couple's clasped hands. "They're wearing rings just like ours!"
Ivy's mouth fell open. "Those aren't like ours," she exclaimed. "Those are ours. We're wearing our parents's wedding rings!"

The narrative goes on to explain that this is the reason Ivy's ring was too big, while Olivia's fitted perfectly (as you pointed out, Soph). Ivy also remembers how her father had been quiet and distracted after he'd given her the ring for her tenth birthday. So I'd say that's enough proof of that fact,

I suppose the other possibilities might be an engagement ring, like you say, or some kind of promise ring perhaps? But given the context I think those are unlikely. That's a good idea about Ivy giving it back to him. Ooh, actually, I've just had a brainwave that disproves it from being anything but a mistake. Allow me to get on my analysis-nerd to explain it...

Let's say that the facts we have established are that (a) it's not a mistake in the writing, and (b) it is the wedding ring Charles wore when he married Susannah. This gives us two possibilities, which Sophie already pointed out - (1) Ivy gave the ring back to him around book 5 after she discovered he was her biological father or (2) he never stopped wearing the ring.

Let's look at theory 1 first: I think it's unlikely Ivy would give the ring back to him. Ivy has an attachment to it (she's often playing with it) and Olivia still has hers - I don't think she'd give it away. He gave it to her so presumably wanted her to have it - I don't think he'd accept it. Looking at the quote above, I'm not sure he would be able to cope with this reminder of Susannah every day. And it's likely that he would have stopped wearing the ring now that he's dating Lillian, especially given that there were hints of him thinking about marrying her in this book. If he only put it back on a few months ago I might say that it wouldn't have been too much of a struggle to do so.

In theory 2 however, it seems more plausible to me that he wouldn't be able to face taking off the ring - not after all these years - hence him wearing it now. This can be pretty easily disproved by the likely idea that he did take off the ring by giving it to Ivy, but then again there's your theory, Sophie, of the twins' rings being replicas. I don't think this is very likely because of the emotional reaction of Charles on seeing the ring again on Ivy's tenth birthday. To go to all the trouble of making replicas when he was still so traumatised about everything, again doesn't feel right to me. Ivy would probably have asked him about the ring if she and him had matching ones, or would have guessed it was a wedding ring because of him wearing it on the ring finger of his left hand. And why wouldn't he make a replica that would fit her?

OK, I was only half being purposely OTT there... I have to admit that was really fun. Basically I think it was a mistake. Interesting to talk about though!

message 20: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments Mistake, I agree. I am quite proud of myself for spotting that. ;)

I really should go get the books to check but did Ivy and Olivia's rings have a V on them? I always had it in my head that they were family heirlooms (for 'Vega') but Vega is just the name Charles took when ran away, his parents are Lazars. Maybe it stands for vampire? If they were family heirlooms, why would Charles use them as wedding rings when his parents didn't approve of Susannah? Or it's quite possible I just made this all up.

message 21: by Daisy, The Brains (last edited May 03, 2018 08:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daisy | 1399 comments OK, I've been researching and the original scene in which the twins find the symbol is in Revamped (MSTV#3) page 50. Carved on the bottom of the emerald is "the shape of an eye, with a 'V' inside it." The twins originally think this is a jeweller's symbol, and Ivy says "Vamp businesses often hide tiny marks in their signs and logos and stuff to identify themselves as vampiric. They don't always use a 'V', but they often do."

As a side note, I found a quote from Fangtastic (MSTV#2) when Ivy goes to the vamp adoption agency which expands on this: "It looked like a cutesy human baby store, but there was a tiny upside-down 'V' in the corner of the window, so Ivy knew she was in the right place - places that served vampires often used a mark like that to identify themselves to their customers." I'm guessing more visible places (like this shop) tend to use an upside-down V, so it's less obvious it stands for 'vampire'. Whereas when the Lazars created their symbol, they probably weren't worrying about bunnies and were proud of being vampires, so that could be why they opted for the normal 'V'.

So, yeah, the V seems to be a symbol of vampirism, not of the family specifically. I suppose it's the eye that distinguishes it as the Lazar symbol - it'd be interesting to know why, but I don't think that's ever explored. The symbol reappears at the end of Revamped (MSTV#3) when Charles has a box with it carved on top (containing his love letters to and from Susannah and a picture of them on their wedding day) and on page 65 of Love Bites (MSTV#6), when the Countess is said to be wearing a choker with the symbol on it.

That's a really interesting point - they do seem to be Lazar family heirlooms, so why would Charles have them? Maybe his parents gave them to him before he met Susannah, kind of as a "in case you ever get married" gift?! But I don't know why they'd do this. I mean, if they're a family heirloom surely they would have been the Count and Countess's wedding rings too, and presumably they wouldn't just hand on their wedding rings without reason. And even if they did, Charles had fallen out with his family, so why would he keep all these things with their symbol on?? It's a shame we can't ask him, haha.

message 22: by Sophie, The Joker (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sophie | 1253 comments So many questions! Charles kept all these Lazar items even after he fell out with his family, ran away and changed his name.. He was deeply hurt when his parents didn't accept the woman he fell in love with because she was not a vampire. But they were still his family, part of the reason it hurt so much was because he loved them. If he didn't care for them he would've ran away with Susannah without a care. Throwing away items of memorial value is hard, even if the memories they bring up hurt.

Plus the rings especially would have been more connected to his wife than his parents - although that's not true for before they actually decided to use them as wedding rings. What was the order of events? Did he change his name before meeting Susannah, before telling his parents about her, before marrying her, or after she dies? I wonder when his parents explicitly made their opinion on the situation known. Maybe the rings entered the equation before the big falling out.

Also the symbol on the rings is tiny isn't it. Maybe Charles and Susannah just liked the rings and didn't attach all this weight to it like we are doing, lol.

The rings cannot have been the Count and Countess's before because that just doesn't make sense (ie. giving away your wedding rings while still married, in love and alive). Maybe it's a family tradition rather than heirloom, and the rings are made for every generation? Maybe he thought that respecting the family tradition (if it is one) would mean his parents were more likely to respect his decision to marry a human. Like I said, so many questions!

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