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Prooving god with Physics

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message 1: by Farzad (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:48AM) (new)

Farzad kabiri | 2 comments salam

man chand vaght pish shenidam ke yeki az ostadane Physis dakhele Iran maghale ya ketabi dade ke dar oon ba estefade az Physic sabet karde ke khoda vojod dare va hamchenin kheyli chizhayi ke mosalmanan be oon eteghad darand. mayel boodam age yeki az doostan dar in moredi etelaati dasht behem bege.
ba tashakor


message 2: by laila (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:48AM) (new)

laila | 5 comments Dear farzad
In fact I’ve already heard something like that. I know that one of iranian professors in HAUZA whose name is ALLAME AYATOLLAH HASSAN ZADE AMOLI can proove existance of God through some math rules, but I don’t know if the proof is available somewhere or not. And I think this is something really provable. I believe that the science is a mass and in fact the source of all sciences is one sole thing and the different knowledges are the branches of one sole tree and that basic is mathematics.as we can see that most anciant sientists such as AVECINE, KHAJE NASIR al DIN TUSI, ALFARABIUS, ARISTOTLE and others have been experts in all siences of their age and one sience helped them realise another sience better . If u study phylosofy u can see that some anciant phylosofers such as EKHVAN al SAFA believe that figures are essenssial parts of the world and most processes in the world are happening according to math rules and even they base lots of their phylosofic prooves on figures. On the other hand we can see that most or near to all great phylosofers and experts in divine scienses have been experts in math too, as I read in one story from AYATOLLAH TABATABYI’s life (who was a big phylosofer, mufassir of Quran and expert in lots of other siences ) that when he wanted to start learning phylosofy, his professor had obliged him to start by math and then logic, and then turn to philosofy.


message 3: by Morteza (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:49AM) (new)

Morteza | 15 comments Mod
I've been thinking for a long time on the relations that exist's among science,religion, actually everything, although i could find some relations, but i'm still perplexed and knowing nothing. no wondering if we can calculate our dayily works with mathematics and predict some actions before doing by math, this is so common and easy for an mathematician. if we beleive that, everything in this world is made of energy and we can calculate the intensity and other aspects of it (I mean we can analyse it in a way that be understanble for us by math rules) it shows the relations of all of these things, which we call them, philosophy (phisopher,...), Math(mathematician, mathematics,...), physics(physicist,...). but the main point is here, we couldn't understand it, thats the point, which confuse's me so much and it had also a negative extraordinary influence on me, my life, totally my life is stoped by that and i can't think rational, because I haven't found the relations well, in fact I couldn't understand some of
the relations.


message 4: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:50AM) (new)

Héctor Nobody (human) can prove the existence of God...


message 5: by laila (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:50AM) (new)

laila | 5 comments u know hector, there r lots of people in the world who believe in God and lots of sientists and divine experts have proved God in different ways. how can u deny their efforts or the wisdom of billions of people?!


message 6: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:50AM) (new)

Héctor Billions of people?. We are 6.000.000.000 millions of people. Can you tell me, Laila, any example (of scientists)?. God is unknowable (for a human).


message 7: by SYED (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:50AM) (new)

SYED | 6 comments I m agree with u HECTOR.Mostly scientist can't prove the existence of GOD and specially a person who reads and study physics he knows that whts the basis of physics and wht the scientist believe on. I give u one example of Big bang theory which is highly accepted now a days in scientist according to this theory the world is not created in six days which is the beleive of every muslim.How can it is possible to prove the existence of GOD through physics.If u want to know that science can't prove the existence of GOD u can read a disscusion between IMAM JAFFER SADIQ(A.S) and the great chemist JABBER BIN kHAYAn in a book named "SUPERMAN IN ISLAM"


message 8: by laila (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:51AM) (new)

laila | 5 comments Hector, I was talking about all the human beings ever lived on the earth during the history,and we know that the majority of men had faith in God. In fact knowing God is something which origines from our nature and any impartial soul will accept existance of God.
Do u want any example of science to prove God? Haven’t u ever asked how Nioton can prove the Earth Gravity by looking at an apple falling down, but not the supper power which has created this Gravity? More over u can find proofs of God in philosofy. R these not the science?
And about the creation of the world in 6 days and what science is saying, we should consider 2 things. One is that the base of today’s science is empiricism, which says everything should be prooved by experience. In fact most scientific theories r like that . for example I remember well that some time the scientists were advising people not to drink tea. Some time later they advised to drink tea a lot, and now they suggest just 1 glass per day, and I think this will change all the time.
On the other hand lots of informations about the Past Ages of the world r just some guess changing by the time . about the creation of the world in 6 days, I should say that day, doesn’t mean the exact meaning of what we consider about day and night ,here. Because at that time there was no sun and no earth whose turning could have caused the day or night. In fact, our ancient holly texts have been talking about 6 periods in creation and we don’t know in which point of view these periods r classified. But about the age of the world scientists have claimed different figures during the time. and nothing can assure us to accept it.


message 9: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:51AM) (new)

Héctor I don´t say, Laila, that God no exist. I say that it (the existence) can´t prove scientifically...


message 10: by SYED (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:51AM) (new)

SYED | 6 comments MAMOO WHAT UR SAYING IS GOING BEYOND THE DISSCUSION I THINK U R SHIA AND YR BELIEVE CAN"T ACROSS YR IMAM(A.S) at all.IF U WANT TO BE THE REAL FACT WHT SCIENCE SAYS AND WHT OUR IMAM SAYS ABOUT GOD ARE BELEIVE WHICH A SCIENTIST CAN"T BELEIVE ON I SUGGEST U TO READ THAT DISSCUSION CAREFULLY AND THEN U WILL FIND OUT THAT WHTS THE REALITY IS. I THINK THERE IS No BIGGER SCIENTIST MORE THAN JABER BIN KHAYAN..


message 11: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:51AM) (new)

Héctor Who is Jabir Bin Hayaan?. I didn´t find nothing about him in Internet...


message 12: by Joseph (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:52AM) (new)

Joseph | 6 comments But the idea of Quantum Physics is that we can't know all of the information required by an equation which would calculate our daily works...If we can know a particles speed, then we can't know its position....If we can know it's position, then we cannot know its speed...

The problem is that observing the particle, changes the behavior of that particle, so that it is impossible to know what the particle would have done when it is "unobserved"...

So even science cannot reduce our lives to an equation...

I like the references to Newton's attempts to prove the existence of God...because I think it all depends on whether God is revealed in the world or not. If God is not truly revealed in our world, then science cannot prove the existence of God. Can the existence of God be understood materially?


message 13: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:52AM) (new)

Héctor God is revealed in the Word, says the Prophet. I say (with respect and melancholy) that God is a word...
About the problems of the Science with God, to read the biographies of Georg Cantor and Kurt Gödel.


message 14: by Efo (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:52AM) (new)

Efo | 1 comments hello,...
i don't know how to prove the existence of GOD, and i don't know, there is someone (especially scientist)that could prove it.
But i think, when we have more and more knowledge(not only about science such as physics and math but also social) we could "felt" the GOD ^_^


message 15: by Morteza (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:55AM) (new)

Morteza | 15 comments Mod
I agree with joseph, no body can prove the existance of God by physics, because physics has lots of undefined factors, which it works by. for example Mathematics works by numbers, but it never can define the numbers so this shows that Mathematics is not independable, in the case which I've just mentioned, Mathematics needs the philosophies help in order to define the numbers for itself. and about physics, in physics we know this equation: F=ma , and a=dv/dt, but here in second equation, whats the time?, can you define it? the meaning of time is not hour, second... because they are just some units which measures TIME. its like to define a place by meter or inch.
by those explainations, I wanted to show the weakness of Physics. To Prove the existance of God, we need more Data. Factors are glore and the way of processing is important. it can not be proved just by Physics.


message 16: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:55AM) (new)

Héctor I do not believe that the mathematics depend of the philosophy to advance, friend Morteza. In the case of the complex numbers, the mathematicians let worry (between 1825 and 1850) about the definition, when they found an application it: how to make infinitesimal calculation with complex numbers. More information in: Ian Stewart, De aquí al infinito. Ed. Crítica, 1998.


message 17: by Deena (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:29PM) (new)

Deena | 7 comments Not really sure what you guys talking about..
But when it comes to Prooving God with science (I prefer this word over Physics since God's existance is not only prooved by phisics), I'd recommend Harun Yahya series.. Great for people who's beginners or intermediate in science..


message 18: by Deena (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:31PM) (new)

Deena | 7 comments Human can't (or maybe yet??) even explain why all the physics law is no longer prevailed in the black hole.. thats only one thing that God creates.

And to prove the existence of God by mere equations? I think you're trying to catch the moonlight with bare hands there, bro.

The existence of God is something only you yourself can prove with your heart, helped by your head (that if your thinking the right way), supported by the science of the nature around you..

I've found my God.. so good luck with yours :)


message 19: by Deena (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:31PM) (new)

Deena | 7 comments To prove the existance of God, check this website:

http://www.harunyahya.com/

It has free e-books, audio books,articles and videos. Lots of it discuss about the science of the nature and to find God in it. I believe you'll be interested (if not amazed).

There are lots of topic but I recommend you to read the series such as the miracle of ant, the miracle of DNA, the miracle of human creation etc. Some of the books has been made in movie version if you prefer.

For movies.. I recommend you to see 'Altruism in nature'. They don't have it in book version.

Read/hear/watch it with a clear mind and without prejudice. And kindly post your comment here after you read/hear/watch it.

Enjoy..


message 20: by Dyah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:36PM) (new)

Dyah Hi guys,
I happen to know a physicist/mathematician/logician whose research is about infinity, which he hoped will lead the way to proving that there is God and only one God and no one can deny it. He said there are very few scientists in the world who are interested in researching this same topic, because it's very very complex and advanced. And limited funding, of course.
He also said physics is not enough, it takes math to prove it. And it's still a very long road to prove it, but there's a dim light at the end of the tunnel...

It has to do with Godel incompleteness theorem. I don't know what it means, though.


message 21: by Peter (new)

Peter | 2 comments Every scientific (and philosophical) proof of god that I have ever seen has been self referential, and at best a rude attempt to bend the data to the forgone conclusion.
Nature is a koan; a moebius strip. As you stare off into the ghastly distances there is a sense of order as well as the confusion that comes with the unknowable.
Mathematics has been intimately tied up with mysticism since the dawn of human intelligence. In Africa there have been sticks found, seemingly of ceremonial importance, notched with sets representing the prime numbers. Mathematics does not need philosophy, it is at it's heart a field of philosophy.
There are areas of science that are unknown. Someone mentioned gravitation, a force whose behavior we can describe and predict, and yet it's cause and nature are unknown. The blade of Newton's calculus was not keen enough to pierce this veil. It is not unreasonable to attribute these unknowns to the hand of god, or some mystical force. Newton certainly did. But the unknown, and the seemingly unknowable are not a proof. They are merely a question without an answer.
Science will mystify you...


message 22: by Brett (new)

Brett Featherstone-Price | 3 comments Here are some clear statements by the well-known scientists Newton and Einstein.

"The renowned scientist Newton, in his seminal book Principles of Mathematics published in 1678, explained in detail the principles of mechanics, tidal formation, and planetary movement, and calculated the movements of the solar system. Newton, who was so eminently accomplished, said repeatedly that his book offered a mere description of surface phenomena, and that he absolutely did not dare to speak about the real meaning of the ultimate God in creating the universe. In the second edition of Principles of Mathematics, in expressing his faith Newton wrote, "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being… As a blind man has no idea of colors, so we have no idea of the manner by which the all-wise God perceives and understands all things."
from The Nine Commentaries, Part IV, published by the Epoch Times at www.ninecommentaries.com


In an 1955 interview with Esther Salaman, a young physics student, Albert Einstein said of his curiosity about the cosmos: "The years of ancient searching in the dark, with their intense longing, their alternations of confidence and exhaustion and the final emergence into the light — only those who experience it can understand it. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

Personal experiences of heaven are hard to deny, even if you're Einstein. -B
After Yehudi Menuhin performed a violin recital of Beethoven, Bach, and Brahms with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in 1929, Einstein was reported to be so taken that he rushed into Menuhin's dressing room and exclaimed, "Jetzt weiss ich, dass es einen Gott im Himmel gibt" ("Now I know that there is a God in heaven.")

Einstein wrote in a 1927 letter
"My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance — but for us, not for God."

excerpts from Einstein's God
from Speaking of Faith on American Public Radio http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.or...


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