Kafka on the Shore - Chapters 1 through 20 (Spoilers Allowed) November 2014)

[Lily]

Whitney wrote: "... fitting in the larger picture of fluidity of identity in general."

Mmmm... Ok!

[Marc]

Whitney wrote: "I came to a similar conclusion, but see the intent differently...."
Cheater! I was trying to discuss as if that conversation hadn't happened yet :p

Great points all around--so many topics/themes/issues to discuss in this book. Hoping to finish reading it tonight!

[Whitney]

Marc wrote: "Whitney wrote: "I came to a similar conclusion, but see the intent differently...."
Cheater! I was trying to discuss as if that conversation hadn't happened yet :p..."

I have poor impulse control.

[Marc]

Whitney wrote: "I have poor impulse control."
Kafka is rubbing off on you :D

[Edgarf]

Marc wrote: "Whitney wrote: "I came to a similar conclusion, but see the intent differently...."
Cheater! I was trying to discuss as if that conversation hadn't happened yet :p

Great points all around--so many..."

I have finished the novel a few days ago and had to refrain from commenting for the very reason I know where much of the story is going and am afraid of blurting out spoilers.

[Lily]

Edgarf wrote: "...I know where much of the story is going and am afraid of blurting out spoilers. ..."

Everyone who has posted with me probably knows that I tend to deny the existence of spoilers -- for very reason of which I usually try to bend over backwards to avoid them. But, for me, it gets really irritating when such sensitivity seems to be destroying a good discussion. Any book worth its salt deserves two readings, anyway, whether or not its reader ever has time to do so.

[Whitney]

For these reasons, may I suggest moving the discussion over to the 'open discussion spoilers allowed' thread, as I should have done with my last post?

[Lily]

@42 Lily wrote: "'...Murakami, who is keenly interested in his country's role in World War II and who has described himself as profoundly transformed by a nonfiction book he wrote about survivors of the Aum Shinrikyo cult's poison gas attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995...'"

I find it fascinating that Miller wrote the above in her review of KotS, yet on the Q&A document, Murakami is quoted thus:

Q: Throughout this book, you reference the "Rice Bowl Hill incident," in which a group of children lost consciousness during a school outing in the hills. Do the fictional investigations of this incident have a basis in real historical events or news stories? Did your experience as a journalist inform this part of the novel?

A: I'd rather not go into that.

[Nutmegger]

I've come into this discussion a bit late, but am enjoying all of the research and thought put into this. I'm just reading along and enjoying Murakami's fantastic (in many ways) writing.
Thanks for all of the thoughtful posts.

[Zulfiya]

Lacewing wrote: "Nakata fills the role of a know-nothing attitude, and Japan's humility after the war. Cats are critters who fulfill their own natures, like Zen masters. (They can be pretty strange, from what I've read.) The events that seem magical express a Zen/Buddhist sensibility of we-ness, of a profound lack of distance between self and other; also for acknowledging how weird we and the whole world can be."

Three or four months ago we read the novel by Ruth Ozeki A Tale for the Time Being whose work is also permeated by the spirit of Zen-Buddhism, even if it was done inadvertently, but I definitely see the the same spirit, the same style, and these two books are more alike than any other Murakami's novels. The reference to WWI also makes these two books feel closer in my interpretation.

[Zulfiya]

Marc wrote: "Crow's role seems to diminish as the story goes (at least, the first 20 chapters)... "

Crow's role is totally mysterious. He might be the only reliable narrator in this novel; these passages are less personal and more objective, if it is in general the right word to use when one is describing Murakami's narrative style.

[Zulfiya]

Casceil wrote: "About Chapter 19 with the feminists--I wonder how much of the purpose of this was to get Oshimo to reveal that she was biologically female. The women were the perfect set-up for the speech Oshimo ..."

I thoroughly enjoyed the passage because I was totally unprepared for the gender-bender revelation; I hope people will not be too critical of Murakami for this passage. It seems to be O'k in modern fictional discourse to criticize Loud-mouthed, evangelical believers, but it might not so about the loud-mouthed feminists. I do identify myself as a feminist, but I personally cannot stand the sensational-type of feminism that is nit-picky about silly things. One of the recent events is an example of such intolerance and idiocy. I am talking about the situation when Matt Tylor had to apologize for the sexist shirt he was wearing during the interview. That was asinine. These people worked 25-hours shift before the landing, and I am sure shirts were the last thing they cared about, but if one reads this crazy media pressure, one would believe that he had done something utterly disgusting. These are the same pseudo feminists.

And is it very typical for Murakami, it is not only gender-bending book, it is first and foremost genre-bending book.