The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Les Misérables
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Les Miserables - Week 10
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It is pronounced Ah Bay Say, the same as ABC in French but means the downtrodden.
I was intrigued by the way poverty is shown as noble and formative for Marius, when for Fantine it was doom. Women had no options to eke out a living.
Gem wrote: "Again in this week's reading Hugo diverts from the main story and writes about a radical fringe and the underworld of society. Is this information helpful for you? Would the story suffer without it?"Maybe in the future we could answer this question. Hugo always put information that would be relevant in the future of events.
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Robin wrote: "The description of Marius in love is quite amusing and captures the craziness of the emotion, especially for someone who is experiencing it for the first time. It's not actually love at first sight..."Marius is a romantic (not just literarily) young person.
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Gillenormand even when disinherits his grandson he still misses him. I did not finish this section yet but I hope that the nephew (I don't remember his name now) don't take his place. The end of the chapter 6 make me almost certain that it will not happen. He is really an idiot.
Now that I finish it I am curious about the Patron Minette.
My reading progress is considerable slow in this part with the inclusion of detailed background information. They are necessary of course to the development of the plot but reading and digesting them takes time. But somehow I managed to complete this segment today. Marius makes progress in this segment. To answer Gem's question put forward, my first thought was Marius acted imprudently by refusing to accept his aunt's financial assistance. Although I didn't approve his stubbornness, I understood he couldn't do otherwise. Marius was proud and he was still nursing his grief. But on a more reflective thought, I'm assured that under what notion it was made, it was a wise decision that was made. His destitution made him form his character and be successful in his own small way.
It was also interesting to see that Marius is falling in love. The young girl's identity was concealed of course, but I got a feeling that it could be none other than Cosette.
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So behind in my reading- I just finished this section yesterday. Too many books at once and what was I thinking to go on vacation!While I think the reader would wish that Marius, a most sympathetic character, would accept the money his aunt offers him, he has no choice on two counts at least. First is that it would be a betrayal to accept any money coming from the family who denounced his father, lied about him and kept Marius from knowing him during his lifetime. This decision is an element in Marius’s character reaching towards the sublime, as Hugo would term it. His honorable nature begins to emerge as he faces economic challenges which his previous life had not at all prepared him, stripping away all material concerns except the barest minimum of eating and shelter. Marius takes pride in his chosen lifestyle and so can focus on intellectual concerns such as those the other students have prompted- Napoleon versus the freedom of the Republic, on more spiritual concerns and meeting and conquering the problems a life of a miserable must face- the shame of poverty, the scorn of others. In this way he is like JVJ. Both must suffer, of course JVJ suffers much more harshly, in order for their characters, their souls to strive towards their possibilities. Hugo says in this state of misery, a terrible trial, a yearning towards the ideal, the honorable can flourish. Marius also evidences concern for those who may be even less fortunate than he when he gives money for the Jondrette family’s rent. The same concern for the poor as guides JVJ’s life.
Marius is definitely besotted with Cosette (who else could it be?). How often is what we term love sparked by a physical attraction? More than not I think. What does bother me a little as a 21st century female reader is that Marius, in his 20’s, is attracted to Cosette, still a girl at 15. Different times and cultures, different ideas of what is appropriate?
It can lead to no good that Marius is intent on finding Thenardier whom he regards as his father’s savior. Will this criminal enterprise, the Patron- Minette, have anything to do with Thenardier?
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To anyone who has gotten behind in the reading - it's not a problem, just post whenever you get to a particular section.
Robin wrote: "Do we know that she is 15? I haven't been following the dates. At the time, it wouldn't be unusual for a girl to get married at 16. To anyone who has gotten behind in the reading - it's not a pro..."
I'm also behind in reading Les Mis.'
Linda is right about Cosette's age. Hugo spends some time describing how Cosette changed from an unattractive schoolgirl to a beautiful 'woman' during the six months that Marius hadn't seen her. I think it may be down to eligibility for marriage that women (or girls) were considered in this way at such an early age. Very often young girls like Cosette were married to much older men and no one (except the girl) seemed to see it as a problem. I have just finished reading the 'Confessions' of JJ Rousseau which fits in nicely alongside Les Miserables. There are a number of examples described in 'Confessions' of this occurring in the first half of the nineteenth century. However, is it just events that forced Hugo to have about a ten year gap between Marius' and Cosette's ages?
Piyangie wrote: " More than not I think. What does bother me a little as a 21st century female reader is that Marius, in his 20’s, is attracted to Cosette, still a girl at 15. Different times and cultures, different ideas of what is appropriate?h..."I don't think 5 years is that big of an age gap. Sure, she is just on the cusp of womanhood, but people married relatively young back then because of the life expectancy and the the social norms expected from the roles that men and women had during that time. Actually, as long as both parties (man and woman) are mutually in love (and are biologically and legally adults), I don't think age should matter. It seems that Cosset was equally admiring Marius. Unfortunately for him, his evasive behavior scared JVJ and Cosset away, assuming that theses two are JVJ and Cosset. It's a little weird that tries to find out more about her by stalking her. It was also weird the way he got upset about the wind blowing her skirt up a bit. That seems unhealthy, but maybe Hugo meant it to be in an endearing way instead of a controlling way.
M. Mabeuf is probably my favorite character of the whole book. He apparently doesn't have much of a role in the book, but in chapter IV there is a nice description of him. I liked how much he liked books, which many of us book readers would identify with.
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I feel exactly the same way. It takes me a long to wade through the historical/war/political parts that are not character-driven.
How does Marius association with the Friends of the ABC caused him to question his new-found beliefs?
Why does Marius refuse the money sent by his aunt? Do you think this was beneficial to him in the long run? Would having his rent paid and plenty to eat change who he inherently was? Or did the financial struggle develop his character?
Marius misinterpreted his grandfather’s feelings do you think he will figure this out, eventually? Or is his history going to repeat itself? Was this not the same kind of situation he found himself in with regards to his father?
The author states “Marius almost reproached himself with the fact that he had been so absorbed in his reveries and passion that he had not until now cast a glance upon his neighbors. Paying their rent was a mechanical impulse; everybody would have had that impulse.” Why does Marius say this and do you agree?
Again in this week's reading Hugo diverts from the main story and writes about a radical fringe and the underworld of society. Is this information helpful for you? Would the story suffer without it?