Infinite Jest, Week 5 by D.F.Wallace

[Nicola]

John wrote: "Oh, and how about Hal's story about the Grief Counselor? Why did he have tiny hands?? Why was the situation so similar to James' "Conversationalist" interview (I think at one point, Hal actually re..."

I thought that bit was great :-) It had shades of Good Will Hunting.

[Nicola]

Linda wrote: Initially I was afraid he was doing something else while hiding his hands under the desk (uh...yeah), especially when Hal noticed the desk rose up on that side at one point. ..."

I too was pretty sure that was a reference to the shrink getting a boner at just how excited he was by Hal's stellar breakdown :-)

[Nicola]

John wrote: "I think that Linda and Kaycie may not have finished the Tournament scene yet, so I will put the following observation in spoiler tags for the time being. It's nothing major though.

[spoilers removed]"

And the girl storming down the bus to rail at the immature behaviour of the guys :-)

[Nicola]

Linda wrote: Hmmm...could be, I had not thought of that. Either way it was still a disgusting thought. And it was pretty crazy how Hal had to basically overachieve in order to "pass" his grief counseling sessions.

Not that I'm necessarily agreeing with this idea but if so then it could also be a way to put Orin off. Hal obviously doesn't want to discuss it and by throwing out the most gruesome thought imaginable it would work as a way to shut his brother up as well.

[Nicola]

Linda wrote: "Rosemary wrote:Re Joelle, I started to wonder whether in fact her veil was simply hiding her extraordinary beauty, that made people frightened to approach her.

This is what I had initially thought too, but the acid incident must play a role. It will be interesting to learn more about Joelle..."

Regarding the spectacular beauty of Joelle wasn't there a mention towards the end that her looks had started to fade? That she originally had the beauty of a 'maiden' and I guess as she grew older and lost her virginal purity (after all she's living with Orin and what a class act that guy is :-)) her extraordinary face grew a little less intimidating.

[Nicola]

Ami wrote: "On page 16, Hal actually makes reference to the hypophalangial Grief-Therapist while he's reminiscing on the gurney.

I saw that when I googled hypophalangial. I saw a few other references which have a much greater impact now I'm 300 pages in. Soup cans above the microwave, digging up his fathers head with Don Gately and a statement about John Wayne who would have won this years Whataburger.

I was always going to anyway but this book will probably be even better on a reread. I'll probably start as soon as I've finished!

[Nicola]

John wrote: During Joelle's story, there is a part where she says that she had never met Mario because Orin had disliked him...or something like that? I'm almost sure she mentioned Orin disliking Mario.

There was something mentioned in last weeks section.

[Nicola]

Zulfiya wrote: "As for Joelle, it seems like her story defies our expectations. First, we suspect that she is disfigured, but then we learn that her beauty overwhelms many and mostly intimidates and keeps men at bay. At the same time, I still keep in mind the allusion to acid.

I think she's probably both, first lovely now badly scared. Either ravishingly beautiful or hideously disfigured though, Joelle has been set apart from people all of her life

[Nicola]

Zulfiya wrote: "So I am sure this story was just a teaser, and more will be revealed later in the novel. It seems like DFW is really fond of literary red herrings.


I feel it's a bit like Catch-22, the way something important and dramatic is revisted over and over again and with each revist you get a little more detail.

[Nicola]

Ami wrote: "John Wayne...Spoiler in reference to FN 304 redirected from FN 45

He's from an asbestos mining town in Quebec where his father is the most seniorest guy on his shift holding on until John Wayne can start making some serious $ ...(view spoiler) This guy seems to be the most together out of all the kids at E.T.A, doesn't he?

I find him scary, boring and offputting actually :-) I am clearly acclimatizing to all of the crazy!

[Nicola]

Ami wrote: "Well, I've found another favorite character in Geoffrey Day, could he be the narrator on page 180...So this purports to be a disease, alcholism?

I presumed he was.

[Nicola]

Ami wrote:I couldn't help but feel such sadness for both Orin (I don't even like Orin) and Joelle while reading about the genesis of their relationship; especially after how Wallace leaves things with Joelle in the previous section. The insight into her life was so heavy, I'll admit, I failed to realize Joelle had a different existence prior to her addiction riddled lifestyle. She was a normal college kid, a baton twirler in the Pep Squad, bright eyed and happy. And then I thought...Well, why wouldn't she have been all these things?
..."

That may be a sad comment (and I don't mean this personally!) on how society views people like this in general. When you see a sad wreck of humanity how comforting it is to be able to turn away from them in disgust and to somehow view them as not the same as you. When you don't know anything about a life prior it must make it much easier. How devastating would it be to come across an old school friend or colleague, one that you felt admiration for and feel like you've been punched in the face looking at them as they are now.

'How did this happen?!' and 'But you had everything going for you!' and other such thoughts running frantically through your mind.

How very uncomfortable that would be...

[Nicola]

Right that's me for now. Any thoughts from you old veterans?

Otherwise I'll see you all in the next little get together :-)

[John]

Nicola wrote: "Soup cans above the microwave, digging up his fathers head with Don Gately "

I do not remember the soup cans reference! I will have to go back and check that out. I have a feeling that first chapter, when reread later, will prove to be chock full of references and foreshadowing (even more so than we already know it to be at this point).

[Ami]

Nicola wrote: "Ami wrote: "John Wayne...Spoiler in reference to FN 304 redirected from FN 45

He's from an asbestos mining town in Quebec where his father is the most seniorest guy on his shift holding on until J..."

I'm sorry you find him to be all those things, I think it's interesting how Avril holds him in high esteem... It's mentioned more than once so far as to her affinity for him, he's the only one of Hal's friends she enjoys being around.

[Ami]

Nicola wrote: "Hi! Again no set questions for this section so I’ll just info dump.

This bit started well with a great phone call between Orin and Hal. This bit seemed to typify for me the whole of Infinite Jes..."

There were definite allusions to his dislike and jealousy of CT and his moving on his mother. So far Orin is shaping up to be more of a Hamlet than Hal if we are looking for connections.

I could not agree with you more here. I've been wanting to expand on this for a while... My curiosity peaked in W1 in the section describing Orin's dreams...romanticizing about Avril's head.

[Nicola]

Ami wrote: I could not agree with you more here. I've been wanting to expand on this for a while... My curiosity peaked in W1 in the section describing Orin's dreams...romanticizing about Avril's head. ..."

Ami, you either have the best memory of anyone in this reading group or you are reading very very closely. I'm missing a great deal I know.