Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye discussion

This topic is about Ulysses
Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye: Ulysses

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message 1: by Cosmic (last edited Oct 29, 2014 05:12PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 199 comments Mod
Here is a link to the free copy of Ulysses by James Joyce:

I especially want to focus on chapter 8 of Ulyssesalthough I think the whole book and the style of writing greatly influenced how Salinger wrote the book The Catcher in the Rye

Chapter 8 is The Lestrygonians
The Laestrygonians (or Laestrygones, Laistrygones, Laistrygonians, Lestrygonians; Greek: Λαιστρυγόνες) are a tribe of giant cannibals from ancient Greek mythology.

Ulysses, Cannibals and Freemasons

I have written about the connection between Freemasonary and The Catcher in the Rye here:

Now what ties these two books together is that the chapter that connects Bloom as being a mason is also the where the allusion to the poem Coming Through The Rye
by Robert Burns.

In Chapter 8 of Ulysses he says;
"Your funeral's tomorrow
While you're coming through the rye
Diddlediddle, dumdum

I was really thinking about this passage from chapter 8 of Ulysses:
"Brewry barge with export stout. England.
We air sours it, I heard.
Be interesting someday get a pass through Hancock to see the brewery.
REGULAR WORLD IN ITSELF (emphasis is mine).
Vats of porter, wonderful. Rats get in too.
Drink themselves bloated big as a collie floating.
Dead drunk on the porter.
Drink till they puke again like Christians.
Imagine the drinking that!
Rats: Vats
Well of course if we knew all the things.

I was thinking that perhaps the word puke and vomit in the Catcher may allude back to this.
Rats get drunk.

I was thinking about Marx's statement that religion is the opium of the people. I can see that if we do not teach people to think they can become drunk on "belief". Whether that belief be religion, science, education, money, or patriotism; it can make us sick and even be the cause of our funeral.

* this is just a scratch pad for other interesting links to look at later...:

Cosmic Arcata | 199 comments Mod
From chapter 8:
Are you saved?
All are washed in the blood of the lamb.
Good wants BLOOD VICTIM. (My emphasis).
Birth, hymen, martyr, war, found- (n)action (?), or foundation (cornerstone see ---), sacrifice, kidney burntoffering, (altar, an incense in the nostrils), durid's altars, Elijah is coming.
D.John Alexander Dowre, restorer of the church of Zion, is coming.

Paying game. some Birmingham firm the luminous crucifix. Our Saviour. Wake up in the dead of night and see him on the wall, hanging. Pepper's ghost idea. Iron nails ran in....

Phosphorous -it must be done with. If you leave a bit of codfish for instance. (Fish is the symbol of Christianity) The phosphorescence, that bluey greeny. Very good for the brain."

Good For A Burnt Offering:
"As an incendiary weapon, white phosphorus burns fiercely and can ignite cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles.

In addition to its offensive capabilities, white phosphorus is also a highly efficient smoke-producing agent, burning quickly and producing an instant blanket of smoke. As a result, smoke-producing white phosphorus munitions are very common, particularly as smoke grenades for infantry, loaded in grenade launchers on tanks and other armored vehicles, or as part of the ammunition allotment for artillery or mortars. These create smoke screens to mask movement, position, infrared signatures, or the origin of fire from the enemy."
"The British Army introduced the first factory-built WP grenades in late 1916. During World War II, white phosphorus mortar bombs, shells, rockets, and grenades were used extensively by American, Commonwealth, and, to a lesser extent, Japanese forces, in both smoke-generating and antipersonnel roles. The British military also used white phosphorus bombs against Kurdish villagers and Al-Habbaniyah in Al-Anbar province during the Great Iraqi Revolution of 1920.

Air burst of a white phosphorus bomb over the USS Alabama during a test exercise conducted by General Billy Mitchell, September 1921
In the interwar years, the U.S. Army trained using white phosphorus, by artillery shell and air bombardment."
Albright and Wilson
Albright and Wilson was founded in 1856 as a United Kingdom manufacturer of potassium chlorate and white phosphorus for the match industry. For much of its first 100 years of existence, phosphorus-derived chemicals formed the majority of its products.

It was set up as a Partnership between two Quakers, Arthur Albright, and John Edward Wilson.[1][2] It became a private limited company, Albright & Wilson Ltd, in 1892; and it remained a double family-owned firm, for nearly 100 years, until 5 March 1948, when it became a public company.[3]

message 3: by Cosmic (last edited Oct 30, 2014 01:24PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 199 comments Mod
I am listening to my professor audible Joyce's UlyssesJoyce's Ulysses. He mentions the scene where Bloom goes into the restaurant:

"His heart astir he pushed in the door of the Burton restaurant. Stink gripped his trembling breath: pungent meatjuice, slush of greens. See the animals feed.
Men, men, men.

Perched on high stools by the bar, hats shoved back, at the tables calling for more bread no charge, swilling, wolfing gobfuls of sloppy food, their eyes bulging, wiping wetted moustaches. A pallid suetfaced young man polished his tumbler knife fork and spoon with his napkin. New set of microbes. A man with an infant's saucestained napkin tucked round him shovelled gurgling soup down his gullet. A man spitting back on his plate: halfmasticated gristle: gums: no teeth to chewchewchew it. Chump chop from the grill. Bolting to get it over. Sad booser's eyes. Bitten off more than he can chew. Am I like that? See ourselves as others see us. Hungry man is an angry man. Working tooth and jaw."

I believe this made me look at the men as animals. Maybe it is not that they are animals but maybe he views them that way. Which is not that far from our education of seeing ourselves evolved...and "the survival of the fittest."

I have something else

In All Quiet on the Western Front he says (chapter four) "We march up, moody or good-tempered soldiers--we reach the zone where the front begins and become on the instant human animals.

(Chapter Six)
But so long as we have to stay here in the field, the front-line days, when they are past, sink down in us like a stone; they are too grievous for us to be able to reflect on them at once. If we did that, we should have been destroyed long ago. I soon found out this much:--terror can be endured so long as a man simply ducks;--but it kills, if a man thinks about it. Just as we turn into animals when we go up to the line, because that is the only thing which brings us through safely, so we turn into wags and loafers when we are resting. We can do nothing else, it is a sheer necessity. We want to live at any price; so we cannot burden ourselves with feelings which, though they might be ornamental enough in peacetime, would be out of place here."

In Ulysses as Bloom is leaving the restaurant into says:

"Every fellow for his own, tooth and nail. Gulp. Grub. Gulp. Gobstuff.
He came out into clearer air and turned back towards Grafton street. Eat or be eaten. Kill! Kill!"

I know that Joyce did not read All Quiet on the Western Front but war is universal and these were in the minds of men at the time.

message 4: by Cosmic (last edited Oct 21, 2017 05:02PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Cosmic Arcata | 199 comments Mod
In the Oxford introduction to Ulysses:

It is probably time to attempt the formulation of a rule about Ulysses, a rule which emerges as the logical conclusion of Joyce’s having drawn Larbaud’s attention simultaneously to two different (both independently verifiable) aspects of the book. The rule: A salient, if not the quintessential, characteristic of Ulysses is that it is allotropic. 25 That is , it is capable of existing, and indeed does exist, in at least two distinct, and distinctively different, forms at one and the same time: in this case, ‘distilled essence of novel’ and ‘extravagant, symbolically supersaturated anti-novel’.

This is also how i see The Catcher in the Rye.

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