Working class writing

[Alwynne]

Thanks Nigey, I think you found more to like in the Reid Banks that enabled you to read past the problematic issues than I did. I did find it interesting, as you suggest in your review, as an historical document but not as a novel, if that makes sense. I much prefer Shelagh Delaney's take on being single and pregnant, although 'A Taste of Honey' has problematic elements too.

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "I agree. It was not ubiquitous which I find interesting and suggests there was some awareness of these issues from early in the 20th century and even earlier."

Oh yes, racism/sexism/homophobia etc. all have histories of their own and can't be mapped onto a single linear trajectory i.e. people do not necessarily start off as 'prejudiced' in the past and gradually get less so in a straightforward progressive narrative.

'Race', for example, is a hugely complicated category and only starts to take on the sense it now has in the 16th century.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "And this is one of my fling across the room books, RC!"

Haha, we'll have to have a special category for those books - which will differ for all of us, of course!

[Nigeyb]

I've just finished..


The Surrender of Silence: The Memoirs of Ironfoot Jack, King of the Bohemians by Ironfoot Jack

The life of escape artist, fortune-teller, author and raconteur “Ironfoot Jack,” aka Jack Rudolph Neave (1881–1959), the self-styled “King of the Bohemians” in London's Soho.

Not the greatest book I've ever read but well worth it for students of London's Soho and bohemianism more generally

My review...

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

3/5

[Gregory]

So glad I discovered this thread, with so many Brit books unknown to me. Anyone also interested in books on or about US working class can find lots [beyond Steinbeck, Upton Sinclair, Dreiser, Dos Passos and other classics] in reference books like: A History of American Working-Class Literature ed. by Nicholas Cole. Jess Walter is a current fave, with his recent best seller: The Cold Millions.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Gregory

[Nigeyb]

Sid wrote:


"I've always had Room at the Top by John Braine in mind as the archetypal English novel of ambition, and have always felt I ought to read it"

Susan wrote:

"We read Room at the Top a while ago, Sid. I think we had a sudden flurry of Angry Young Men novels, which I sort of recall, although they have blurred a bit in my mind!"

We did indeed, back in 2017, I've replied here Sid and Susan, on our Working Class writing thread

Room at the Top...

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Adrift in Soho...

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The Angry Years: A Literary Chronicle...

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I've read and reviewed quite a few other of the Angry Young Men/Kitchen Sink books - it's a rich seam

[Brian E]

I wasn't here in 2017 but did read Room at the Top back in February of 2020 when this group had a Working Class writing theme. I read the co-winners, Up the Junction and A Kind of Loving.
As a result of the theme read and Nigeyb's comments, I ended up reading the entire Vic Brown trilogy A Kind of Loving:The Vic Brown Trilogy: A Kind of Loving, The Watchers on the Shore & The Right True Endand also went on to read Room at the Top too. I loved the Vic Brown trilogy and really identified with Vic even as a younger (by birth year) than Vic midwest American.

This is a timely discussion as just earlier this week I finally got to watch the movie of Room at the Top when I DVRd it from TCM. Many good kitchen sink movies and books of that era. As Nigeyb says it is a rich seam.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Brian


I agree with everything you’ve written in your post 👏🏻

[Martin]

If I had to name just one book to represent mid 20th century working class life in England it would be Saturday Night and Sunday Morning https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Sillitoe also wrote Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner.
If you don't want to read them the films are also excellent.

[Roman Clodia]

Someone who doesn't usually get classed as a working class writer but who gives some detailed and compassionate portraits of mining communities, working class masculinity and cross-class relationships is DH Lawrence.

He was the son of a miner father and a teacher mother so some of the work in this area draws on his own family. Having read a couple of his short stories recently, I was struck at how much dignity he gives his miner characters.

[Nigeyb]

Two solid suggestions, thank you both. I love Saturday Night and Sunday Morning & Long Distance Runner, and need to properly read DH Lawrence

[Roman Clodia]

Sons and Lovers draws on Lawrence's childhood and the tensions between his parents, and gives (from what I recall) a picture of growing up in a mining community.

There's also Zola: his L'Assommoir, Germinal and The Earth spring to mind - we did a buddy of L'Assommoir here so the threads will be there.

[Roman Clodia]

And a book we've mentioned before, GB84 about the miners' strike from the wonderful David Peace.

[Nigeyb]

I ❤️ DAVID PEACE

[Nigeyb]

Susan wrote: "I keep meaning to read as I have Tastes of Honey: The Making of Shelagh Delaney and a Cultural Revolution"


The latest episode of Backlisted is a very enjoyble discussion about A Taste of Honey: A Play and Shelagh Delaney

[Hester]

oh ...thanks Nigel. Shelagh Delaney . Broke the mould . A true pioneer .Saw the film in the nineteen seventies and it cemented my love of Salford . That and The Classic Slum / Robert Roberts and Magnolia Street / William Golding .

These days

[Martin]

If Salford is your thing have you read


and other works by Walter Greenwood

Ewan McColl was also from Salford, maybe best remembered in 'Dirty Old Town'

[Nigeyb]

I love the film - absolutely wonderful and still stands up


Thanks for those two other tips

Martin, Love On The Dole is very powerful and still packs a punch

[Hester]

Love on the Dole ...of course , how could I have forgotten that .

[Hester]

I haven't yet read Love on the Dole , thanks for reminding me Martin .

[Martin]

I can also recommend his autobiography

[Nigeyb]

Hester's top tips...


A Ragged Schooling: Growing up in the classic slum by Robert Roberts - second hand copies abound, and still in print

Magnolia Street by Louis Golding - rare and relatively expensive


Martin's top tip...

There Was a Time by Walter Greenwood - also out of print and relatively expensive


I'll be keeping an eye out for those two rarer books

Thanks both

[Alwynne]

Have we mentioned the British Experimental Writers aka the Experimentalists of the 1960s which featured working-class writers like B. S. Johnson and Ann Quin?

There are also writers like Alan Garner one of the so-called 'scholarship boys' i.e. working-class writers who came through the grammar school system post WW2 - many then entered arts-related fields particularly TV. Class identity heavily featured in Red Shift and The Owl Service. Also can see likely links between novels like Red Shift and the approach taken by the earlier experimental writers. Garner's often sidelined in the UK as a children's writer, although the Booker nomination repositioned him slightly, but in America Red Shift is published as an NYRB Classic - and not on their children's version of that list.

[Roman Clodia]

Great point! Red Shift and Owl Service are both fantastic - I read the latter as a child and have reread it as an adult and it's still wonderful. I only read Red Shift as an adult and found it extraordinary.

Ann Quin is still on my TBR list.

[Hester]

I have read and enjoyed Ann Quin /Three and have just come across Passages in a second hand bookshop .

[Nigeyb]

Quin thread here….


https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...