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The Institute
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Steve
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rated it 4 stars
Oct 10, 2019 10:42AM
It isn't the politics that bothered me at the end, it was just the long, tedious roundabout of everything else in it (King doesn't write bad endings, he writes long endings!)
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The best cometary on Stephen Kings book endings was the dialogue exchange between Bill Denbrough and Da King in the shop scene in IT chapter 2. Bill to SK; do you want me to autograph that book for you? SK to Bill; no the ending sucked... he does the best he can with writing and I enjoy what he writes. If you don’t like what he writes; then don’t read his books. The man didn’t become world renown by luck. He earned that with many years of hard work and dedication that is far above anything you think you can do.
Steve wrote: "It isn't the politics that bothered me at the end, it was just the long, tedious roundabout of everything else in it (King doesn't write bad endings, he writes long endings!)"I'm far from the end of this book, but I am marveling at the detailed descriptions that King gives us so that we really have a sense that we're at the places he describes. In On Writing, he discourages extended descriptions of places and things, but (view spoiler) All in all it's great writing, I think. But I'll have to wait till I get to the end to voice an opinion on it.
Started yesterday - loving it so far, but agree that tone and pathos feels different to my faves.
I am 3/4 through (I started a few days ago). I haven’t looked at any comments yet so I will be back.
This was a mixed bag for me. On one hand, King has written this story so many times and like you all mentioned, I don't know that I need to read yet another version. On the other hand, I think King's at his best when he's writing children and I really enjoyed that aspect of it. This is a better, novelized version of Stranger Things, but it's definitely been done before. Overall it's not bad, but it's a little sad to get used to the idea that King's best writing days are behind him.
I read more than 50% and this book is amazing! King take all the time to tell the story, every chapter a detailed chronicle of the events, the description of the feelings of these children and their fight to survive to this nightmare. I hope there will be an adequate end of this story.
I loved this book. I dont know about the rest of you but he just gets better the older he gets. I really look forward to his new books.
Nick wrote: "Steve wrote: "It isn't the politics that bothered me at the end, it was just the long, tedious roundabout of everything else in it (King doesn't write bad endings, he writes long endings!)"I'm fa..."
To be clear, it's the epilogues and denouements--when you have reached that climax of the story and discover that there are 30 or so pages left!-- that King writes sometimes (not all of the time, I grant you) that bug me.
Steve wrote: "Nick wrote: "Steve wrote: "It isn't the politics that bothered me at the end, it was just the long, tedious roundabout of everything else in it (King doesn't write bad endings, he writes long endin..."I'm about an hour from the very end of the book and as much as I like it, I have to say that most of the real terror and concern for me ended when (view spoiler) Up until that point, it was a real nail biter. After that, the concern just wasn't there anymore. And I do think that a lot of it had to do with the fact that there was a lot of extra business and detail that just slowed things down. Anyway, I'll be back with a review in a few days. It's still a hell of a book.
I finished a while back but am holding off on a thorough review until the end of the month, when most others will be done. I thought that some sections dragged a bit, but overall I really liked it...I DO wish that the section/character of TIM had been re-visited SOMEHOW much sooner than it/he was, you know? You almost forget that he EXISTS by the time readers meet up with him again!
Also, the very 1st sentences/page/scene with Tim on the airplane, giving up his seat and wandering the country on a whim-- was this like, "meant to be"? Was there a deeper reason? This could have been made to seem...more important, I guess, although that's not exactly the word I'm searching for...Am I alone in this?
---Jen from Quebec :0)
Jen from Quebec :0) wrote: "I finished a while back but am holding off on a thorough review until the end of the month, when most others will be done. I thought that some sections dragged a bit, but overall I really liked it...."Definitely felt the same way. The two narratives don't cross paths until more than 60% into the book, similar to the second Hodges book. King was going for a feeling of predestination, or at least some kind of cosmic connection, but Tim still ends up seeming like a prop tacked on at the end to assist in the showdown.
It's funny you guys mention the predestination angle. I feel almost the exact opposite. Things happen. They happen in really weird ways and people's paths cross that you would never expect. I think King just likes to show that. You often can't go back and decide exactly when the paths began to verge toward one another.
I agree with a lot of what Jen says, the sections dragging, wishing we could have seen more of Tim a little earlier (though I do think he was handled very well, his story coming first.) As for the importance of Tim giving up his seat, King addresses that directly. At the end of the book, Tim is reflecting on all that has happened and notes that his getting off the plane early is a perfect example of... What? I don't know because I have the audiobook and that makes it hard to go back and search for specific quotes. I'll try later, but it IS there... I think.
Jen from Quebec :0) wrote: "I finished a while back but am holding off on a thorough review until the end of the month, when most others will be done. I thought that some sections dragged a bit, but overall I really liked it...."It is ka.
Nick wrote: "I agree with a lot of what Jen says, the sections dragging, wishing we could have seen more of Tim a little earlier (though I do think he was handled very well, his story coming first.) As for the ..."Definitely KA. :)
He could have left Tim out at the beginning and introduced him farther on when the kid makes it to NC.I had forgotten all about Tim. When the train arrived in DuPray, NC I was thinking how that name sounded familiar and it took me several minutes to realize I had read it at the beginning of the book. I was thinking I had read it in another book recently, LOL.
I listened to the last part of the book again and pretty early on in that part, Tim has a flash about his decision to get off the plane and considers it a possible example of (view spoiler) In many ways, this book is closer in theme to the dead zone than to the dark tower.
Nancy wrote: "He could have left Tim out at the beginning and introduced him farther on when the kid makes it to NC.I had forgotten all about Tim. When the train arrived in DuPray, NC I was thinking how that n..."
When I read the first chapter, with this man named Tim, I thought to have taken the wrong book. And when Luke examine the train path, the name of the city gave me an hint of what part Tim had in this story.
I'm reading the last part and so far is a nice book, not so scary as some of King's work, but a great story! :)
Kandice wrote: "It's funny you guys mention the predestination angle. I feel almost the exact opposite. Things happen...."I'm with you, Kandice. I liked that we only got a brief introduction to Tim, because it made me curious about how he'd handle Luke's situation. His backstory was ambiguous enough that I couldn't really predict what he'd do and that added a bit of tension to the story.
BookNerd worte: "Man, their justification for the institute was even lamer than I expected! They made a building float. Impressive but hardly world altering."
Seconded! Channeling the energy from children across the world, I was expecting world-size effects and not a hyperlocalized mini earthquake. King's endings strike again!
Summer wrote: "BookNerd worte: "Man, their justification for the institute was even lamer than I expected! They made a building float. Impressive but hardly world altering."Seconded! Channeling the energy from children across the world, I was expecting world-size effects and not a hyperlocalized mini earthquake. King's endings strike again! ....”
I think that maybe since they were being poisoned by the gas being pumped into that passageway, that they died before being able to do much else. Since they were the group that all the energy was being channeled through, once they died so did the connection between them and the other kids in the world.
"You're in the south now!"Lol, I'm not from the south but that was badass. Great to see a town coming together to fight that kind of cabal.
Really enjoyed it, though at the end I was sad (there were silent tears!) to think that this book kind of proved that there will never be another IT or The Stand. I don't feel like he will (or can) ever reach those lofty heights again.That said, here's few things I took from it:
- There are TK and TP kids in Institutes all over the world - teaser is that we don't know if those Institutes were also destroyed
- Meeting Tim and then not seeing him again for AGES felt like another (albeit resolved) teaser. "Here's this great character... now he's gone! But... keep reading to see if he comes back..." - I liked it.
- The opening scenes of Tim deciding to give up his plane seat - recalled SK writing about The Langoliers - how planes that crash seem to have a sharply higher incidence of cancellations and no-shows; fate, kharma, destiny, 6th sense? Who knows, but it happens.
- FInally, quite a few reviews and comments saying "keep politics out of it". Really? The story is about kids being kidnapped by the govt to be used as pawns to engineer events around the world. Sounds a lot like politics to me...
Steven wrote: "I would normally give this book a 5 star rating; loved the story...BUT
he had to trash Trump in his book. There’s no reason for it. Leave politics out of the books Mr. King....I’m not saying I’m f..."
Plenty of reason for it - the bit about the kids having to kill the preacher reminded me so much of what Trump's pals did to Jamal Kashoggi, for starters.
Book Nerd wrote: "Luke's been kidnapped, suspects his parents are dead, but he's amazed that kids have access to cigarettes and booze."As a Cub Scout Leader (for the last 17 years) i can tell you that what kids adapt to and how quickly is frankly amazing.
I agree with Karen 100%; no denying the unacceptable Trump antics. Stephen King captures the essence of political protests similar to our childhood. Learn the history of protest which was born in the 60’s & 70’s....
Karen wrote: "FInally, quite a few reviews and comments saying "keep politics out of it". Really? The story is about kids being kidnapped by the govt to be used as pawns to engineer events around the world. Sounds a lot like politics to me..."Agreed. I think a lot of folks who'd like to leave politics out of things are missing that bit of privilege*: They may not have have to think about politics because it doesn't affect them on a daily basis, but there are plenty of people who have cause to be worried every day. And Uncle Steve has been anything but a shrinking violet when it comes to his political opinions, so this is definitely in keeping with his philosophy.
*As seemingly needs to be said with any conversation about privilege: We all have areas where we have more or less; it isn't inherently bad; you individually aren't mandated to do anything about it; most people are just asking that we all be aware of it.
Karen wrote: "The story is about kids being kidnapped by the govt to be used as pawns to engineer events around the world. Sounds a lot like politics to me..."I am pretty sure it was said that the government wasn’t involved. It was all through high powered people with money that was involved in the creation and continuation of the institutes.
He even says so in an interview:
“ “I thought at first, ‘Well, O.K., I’ll make this The Shop. The Shop is locking these kids up,’” he says. “But then I thought, ‘No, I don’t really want it to be a government deal.’” Instead, he decided the antagonists should be privately funded zealots.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/bo...
Karen wrote: "- There are TK and TP kids in Institutes all over the world - teaser is that we don't know if those Institutes were also destroyed."No, but we do learn that (view spoiler)
I loved this one. I agree with some of the points people are discussing, but overall, they didn't bother me much. It was such an enjoyable read for me!On another note, why can't people understand the concept of spoiler tags? It gets rather frustrating.🙄 Sigh...
Yep, really happy I managed to read it all before this extensive spoiler broadcasting :)
Karen wrote: "Book Nerd wrote: "Luke's been kidnapped, suspects his parents are dead, but he's amazed that kids have access to cigarettes and booze."As a Cub Scout Leader (for the last 17 years) i can tell you that what kids adapt to and how quickly is frankly amazing."
I know kids can adapt fast. That seemed realistic. Just how he kept focusing on the cigarettes and booze amused me. I think King was making a joke about how sheltered kids are from those things these days.
Nancy wrote: "I am pretty sure it was said that the government wasn’t involved. It was all through high powered people with money that was involved in the creation and continuation of the institutes."
Yeah, it wasn't anything official in government.
And there was barely anything about Trump in the book. Stephen King has showed his political leanings before. It's not a big deal.
Lauren wrote: "This book wasn’t what I expected. It just wasn’t as gripping as it should have been in my opinion. Did anyone else feel that way besides me? Don’t get me wrong, I liked it. But it seemed to be miss..."That's what I thought. It was interesting, but not very gripping until I got almost to the ending. Not what I normally experience with Mr. King's books.
Angel wrote: "I really enjoyed The Institute! That being said, some of it was a bit off to me. For one, upon initial realization that they've been kidnapped, these kids are WAY too calm. Second, Luke is ridiculo..."My thoughts exactly and I thought the dialog of the kids was beyond their age. They spoke and behaved more like young adults in my opinion, which made be forget that they were young kids. Luke, for example was extremely intelligent, but even bright children are still children.
I did like the book because the topic is fresh and invites the possibility of "research" like this actually happening, in some form or fashion, to those that go missing. King did say that BDNF tests for newborns actually exist (in the Authors Note). Makes you wonder.
Patty wrote: "King did say that BDNF tests for newborns actually exist (in the Authors Note). Makes you wonder..."I had never heard of BDNF before this book and after I finished reading it, I heard it being talked about in regards to Alzheimer’s etc. higher BDNF results in lower Alzheimer’s risk. It’s also supposed to aid in neuroplasticity. So it’s a real thing.
Spoiler: it makes no senseWTF?
Luke can access the internet but he doesn’t email/contact anyone to let them know he’s alive and he’s been kidnapped?
Someone please explain how this makes any sense at all. I wonder if at this point in his career, SK may have no editor — is that possible? If he does, it seems like the editor it too cowed by the author and his book sales to point out basic flaws in the story.
Remember he was worried that they were monitoring his internet usage. He was afraid that there would be reprisals.
Maybe he only had this “access” to sites but not the way to send messages .
I enjoyed this book very much, though I do agree it's a bit "different" than typical Stephen King fare. The bad guys lost big time, which is what I was looking forward to long before the end of the book.
Summer wrote: "David wrote: "Spoiler: it makes no sense...Assuming he could [spoilers removed]."
I think Luke would have expected and would have been right to expect reprisals if he contacted the outside world. Not sure when he found out that he had been blamed for his parents murder but he was quickly aware of what he was dealing with.
Mark wrote: "I found a fatal flaw that renders the entire premise of the book ridiculous.OK, let me get this straight.
The Institute exists to protect the world from threats to its existence. It does this..."
I see your point, but I don't think that is a fatal flaw.
Performing the psychic work seems cleaner and more efficient. Public tends to notice a hit squad taking out a foreign leader. The whole point of using psychics is the deaths appear accidental. Secret, stealthy work is done without ever leaving the building. I imagine normal assassins are out there doing their thing, but the Institute is used for special cases where normal footwork isn't possible. Regardless, the flaw you point out isn't enough to disrupt a reasonable willing suspension of disbelief, IMO.
Mark wrote: "Nick wrote: "Both good points. I'm thinking [spoilers removed]"Easier, perhaps, but think of the numbers: The Institute has taken out 500 threats using the kids, but they have used up THOUSANDS ..."
Right, he came up with a good story and wrote it.
John wrote: "Mark wrote: "I found a fatal flaw that renders the entire premise of the book ridiculous.OK, let me get this straight.
The Institute exists to protect the world from threats to its existence...."
(view spoiler)
Mark wrote: "John wrote: "Mark wrote: "I found a fatal flaw that renders the entire premise of the book ridiculous.OK, let me get this straight.
The Institute exists to protect the world from threats to i..."
I think the equation that they were using was (view spoiler)
