Les Miserables - Week 09

[Gem , Moderator]

This week we move into the next volume, Marius. Nine years have elapsed since the events in the second part.

Why do you think Hugo opens this section with the tales of a street urchin? In introducing Gavroche we see the same harsh life of poverty and suffering that we saw with Fantine. Why do you think he emphasizes the same abject poverty that he described in previous sections? How does Hugo's portrayal of the street urchin come across to you?

M. Gillenormand is described as a spry, authoritarian who does not permit contradiction. What kind of life do you think M. Gillenormand wants for his grandson? Do you think M. Gillenormand is naive in thinking the beliefs he has instilled in Marius would never change?

What are your thought about M. Pontmercy with regards to his son? Did he do the right thing in giving up his son to M. Gillenormand? Were M. Pontmercy's trips to Paris just to catch a glimpse of his son ill-advised?

When Marius learns from the churchwarden the momentous revelation of his father's selfless love and the explanation of his apparent neglect. Do you think the conversion of Marius' political views is inevitable under the circumstances?

[Rafael]

I was wrong, we will meet the Thenardiers again, at least Hugo let me thinking it as they were spoken about.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Sometimes it seems inevitable that young people rebel against the politics or religion of the old, especially when they are raised to think there is only one view, and they discover there are others. They feel lied to. In Marius' case, he actually was lied to by his grandfather.

Yes, we are not done with the Thenardiers yet. It is ironic that Marius' father thought Thenardier saved his life, when he was just trying to rob him.

[Linda]

By this time it is obvious to me that one of Hugo’s intentions is to provide in depth background of particular segments of society and thereby also providing meaningful context for the characters and events of the story. These background descriptions are not always immediately followed by the plot events related to them. In the case of the gamins sadly we learn that there is a society of children thrown away by their parents, similar to London. In describing their lives and enjoyments we have a better appreciation for Gavroche, what he might have been if not for his dark and empty heart, making him an even more pitiable figure.

Children abandoned and hated by their parents. Marius is another of these, at least while he believes in the truth of the stories his grandfather told him about his father. Marius has grown up in a bubble of his grandfather’s making surrounded by monarchists and supporters of the ancien regime and those who still live in the 18th century. Although his grandfather and his aunt are not warm and loving, they are the only family he has known. Little wonder he has grown up reflecting their political views.

What is surprising to me is that Marius had not questioned these beliefs when he went on to being tutored and then to university. Was he only surrounded by like minded young people? It seems contrary to our modern ideas of university being a meeting place of many views, of revolutionary views.

For me, Marius’s change of heart about his father which leads to him to abandon his monarchist views does seem plausible as both a rebellion against his grandfather in favor of his father and also based on his research in the law library which provides him a more evidenced based understanding of the Revolution and subsequent Napoleonic period. That Marius takes this beyond an objective understanding to an adoration of Napoleon, disregarding the faults of the former Emperor, also is understandable as he is a young man and the young are passionate in their beliefs.

Gillenormand is completely confident in himself and his beliefs. He is not going to change and to him what Marius has done is abominable, both in his embrace of his father and his change in political views- down with the Bourbons and Louis 18th! The only gesture of concern he makes is his direction to his daughter to send Marius a monthly allowance. But otherwise Marius is a traitor in his eyes.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Great idea comparing the childhood of Gavroche (who we will see a lot of later) and Marius. Neither one experiences love, and neither did Cosette when she was with the Thenardiers.

As far as Marius learning new ideas at the university, I don't think he had a university life the way we picture it today. I think he went to classes and then went home. He didn't seem to have any friends. The subjects were abstract - law, philosophy, etc. In the following chapters, when he makes friends, even those who are nominally students don't spend much time at the university and only talk about important matters when they are away from it. I also think that if Marius heard any "liberal" ideas, he would have dismissed them as the kind of thing his grandfather warned him about.

[Piyangie]

I thought that Hugo brought our attention to street urchins for two interwoven reasons. One is to bring the attention of the readers to this particular segment of society. The second is to provide a background for the events that would follow in the future.

Marius's row with his grandfather was inevitable. A youth who was forced down with ideals by elders go through this kind of strain when they learn to think for themselves and realize that they were unfounded. Marius's case is more delicate. He was lied to as Gem mentioned, and his father's bravery and honor belittled. Also he was forcefully separated by his father with threats of disinheritance. When Marius learned all this after his father's death, it was too late for any reconciliation. And so all his grief and frustrations and anger made him act as he did.

And yes, we haven't seen the last of the Thenardiers. I have a bad presentiment about it. It is really a pity that captain Pontmercy believed that rogue to have saved his life.

[JJ]

It was really sad that Marius missed out on having a relationship with his father, all because of political reasons. It's sad that many families in today's culture still fight over and are sometimes separated over politics. I guess you could say few things have changed and many things from the past are still relevant today. I liked how Hugo wrote that Marius was the stranger in the room at his father death. It was also moving to read about the old man in the church who told Marius about his father.

I think that Hugo writes about the street urchin because that was one of the social concerns and cultural aspect of that time. The amount of poverty was a detriment to the country. It also depicted how a society needs "light" as in an education in order the thrive. Those street urchins were just running around all day without being given an opportunity to better themselves. Then they become adults that get thrown into jail because the "system" set them up for failure.

You can find street urchins in many different countries/cultures/time periods. No society is invincible. No social structure is perfect. Deteriorating, restructuring, reshaping of a society is inevitable. We often forget this.

[Piyangie]

JJ wrote: "I think that Hugo writes about the street urchin because that was one of the social concerns and cultural aspect of that time. The amount of poverty was a detriment to the country. It also depicted how a society needs "light" as in an education in order the thrive. Those street urchins were just running around all day without being given an opportunity to better themselves. Then they become adults that get thrown into jail because the "system" set them up for failure.

You can find street urchins in many different countries/cultures/time periods. No society is invincible. No social structure is perfect. Deteriorating, restructuring, reshaping of a society is inevitable. We often forget this...."

I recall that Dickens in his novel Bleak House also addresses the lives of street urchins through the character Jo, as Hugo does here through Gavroche. Hugo too like Dickens were very sympathetic towards this unfortunate section of the society. Hugo believed "light" gained through education could reform their condition of life whereas Dickens was critical of government's failure to introduce social reforms so as to change their conditions of life.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Hugo seemed to stress the freedom and creativity of the urchin, not dwelling as much as Dickens on the misery, hunger and illness they suffer. Something that just struck me is that we in this book we see the poverty of a woman in Fantine, the poverty (self-imposed) of a man in Marius, and the poverty of a child in Gavroche.

[Gem , Moderator]

Robin wrote: "Something that just struck me is that we in this book we see the poverty of a woman in Fantine, the poverty (self-imposed) of a man in Marius, and the poverty of a child in Gavroche."

There is so much poverty in this book and it feels, to me, as if Hugo is condemning society for it. I think, at least for most books I read/have read, I don't see life through the eyes of the most destitute. It's a sobering perspective.