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Goose of Hermogenes
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Impromptu Buddy Read for Sept 2019: Ithell Colquhoun's Goose of Hermogenes
Another great looking book you've called to my attention. I probably won't get to it in time for the buddy read, but maybe. And thanks for the head-up on the e-book edition.
Whitney wrote: "Another great looking book you've called to my attention. I probably won't get to it in time for the buddy read, but maybe. And thanks for the head-up on the e-book edition."I can't take any credit; I spotted this on Nate D's feed (twice)!
Hi Whitney, I don't know about Bill, but I'm not in a rush to start this as I'm reading another novel at the moment. So if you'd like to join us we can always take it slow. Colquhoun's book is known for its opacity, and multiple perspectives will likely enhance the discussion. I enjoyed your contributions to the recent Evenson read, so it would be nice to have you in on this one, too. No pressure, though!
I picked up the ebook edition of this so I shall join in when I can (some family obligations are making my time here a bit limited lately but those should ease up soon). Looking forward to reading this!
I'm about 40 pages in, but happy to set it aside for a bit. It's more episodic, easy enough to take a break. Maybe check in late next week?
Bill wrote: "I'm about 40 pages in, but happy to set it aside for a bit. It's more episodic, easy enough to take a break. Maybe check in late next week?"This works for me, Bill. Thanks!
Sounds good. I'll definitely be done with my current read and have started the Goose by then.
Glad to hear you'll be joining us, Marie-Therese.
I'm in! Found the book tonight at the bookshop down the street. Late next week would be great for me, too.
It'll be a pleasure to reread this old favourite with you guys, count me in.
Awesome! I was hoping you could be enticed.
Nathanimal wrote: "I'm in! Found the book tonight at the bookshop down the street. Late next week would be great for me, too."Which shop was this? Green Apple? Wow.
Yes. They had the newer one with the illustrations. After the snafu of procuring the last couple Literary Horror books from them, I was happily surprised.
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "Hi Whitney, I don't know about Bill, but I'm not in a rush to start this as I'm reading another novel at the moment. So if you'd like to join us we can always take it slow. Colquhoun's book is know..."Thanks! I'll try and get it in before everyone has longed abandoned the discussion.
Thanks for all the enthusiasm, everyone! Look forward to umm cooking our goose in a few days.
I spy stirrings of activity. Are we ready to warm up the goose?
Just dipping into this now but should be ready to start commenting by the weekend.
Since Bill's goose pun is in danger of drying out, I thought I'd just casually start off the discussion, without addressing direct plot points since I know others are still reading. I think what struck me most about the book was how deftly Colquhoun merged her dream texts into the overarching quest narrative. Any time I hear of a writer attempting to insert verbatim or near-verbatim dream descriptions into a story I'm immediately intrigued, though not typically as immediately won over by the results. The natural hermetic quality of dream narratives can easily render a text impenetrable. But while I still think I could tell where Colquhoun was utilizing dreams based on the, for lack of a better term, dream logic on display, I thought she did a splendid job of interlacing this content with the larger story.
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "Since Bill's goose pun is in danger of drying out ..."Basting is essential, of course.
I love how Colquhoun effortlessly pulled me into the narrative. The first sentence:
I think I must have been still in the erratic local bus when I first caught sight of my Uncle's island.
None of the creaky, lazy story-telling mechanics that I get grumpy about.
I haven't been trying to distinguish between the main narrative and what might have been actual dream sequences, but I do see S̶e̶a̶n̶'s point.
Bill wrote: "I love how Colquhoun effortlessly pulled me into the narrative."Yes! Once I really started reading this it was impossible to put down and I finished the whole thing in about an hour.
Just a really lovely book: strange and dream-like but not effortful or manipulated. The esoteric elements fit in seamlessly; I never once felt that Coquhoun was trying to preach at me nor that she was boasting of her own enlightenment. As I read certain scenes, I often flashed on Surrealist art I'm familiar with: the uncle sometimes made me think of Max Ernst in Dorothea Tanning's paintings and photographs and the depictions of the youth, Innocencio, led to visions of the faun-like young men so beloved of Leonor Fini.
I look forward to discussing this further as others finish the book.
I was inspired by Marie-Therese's example to read the whole book in a single sitting. This was a reread for me, but the first time I'd read the whole book cover to cover in such a concentrated way, and it intensified and enhanced the hallucinatory quality. It was like turning the pages of a book of exquisite alchemical illustrations and watching them come to life, one by one, with each chapter. (Side note: I'm hoping to get up to London this weekend to see the Colquhoun exhibition that's running there at the moment.)
Wow, yeah. A lot of the imagery here knocked me out. The stairs up the tree, the revolving door with all the sisters in it like an incest vending machine, the cathedral under the sea, that sleeping bird-woman with the membrane over her face!Certain passages seemed cribbed directly from dreams (as Sean noted) and really sucked me in. The first chapter was especially oneiric, with that common dream motif of seeing one's destination but not being able to get there. The more overtly magical parts were a bit harder going for me, though not unenjoyable.
I loved how when she meets the Anchorite the first thing he does is launch into a monologue about his two pet moths. Their wings are so ornately beautiful that they can only fly in very certain, eccentric ways. "The flight might be swift, but it must always have in it something of the glide or the flutter." This got me thinking about the readability of this book, about the way a book like this succeeds for a certain kind of reader. (We'd have to agree, this isn't for everybody, right?)
So, questions for the buddies, and sorry if this sounds like an essay question, but I really want to know. According to the book jacket, Muriel Spark called the book "impenetrable." What do you think? Was it impenetrable for you? Is the goal of a book like this, er, penetration? Or does it offer other pleasures. What are they? This book comes from the tradition of the occult, the esoteric, the arcane—all words that denote hidden. What's the pleasure in reading a book that rather than revealing things freely, wants to hide from you?
Merl wrote: "I was inspired by Marie-Therese's example to read the whole book in a single sitting. This was a reread for me, but the first time I'd read the whole book cover to cover in such a concentrated way,..."Interesting. I felt I had to read the book in fairly small bites. The imagery was so dense that if I kept reading past a certain point, I stopped being able to take it in. It would kind of roll off my attention without any of it getting soaked up.
Merl wrote: "I'm hoping to get up to London this weekend to see the Colquhoun exhibition that's running there at the moment."I am so envious. Where is this? I can't seem to find an online listing.
Like Nate, I find it easier to nibble at the goose. More later.
Nathanimal wrote: "Wow, yeah. A lot of the imagery here knocked me out. The stairs up the tree, the revolving door with all the sisters in it like an incest vending machine, the cathedral under the sea, that sleeping..."The 'incest vending machine' was one of the stranger images in this book, and that is saying a lot given what else transpires.
As for the book's impenetrability, I wouldn't say I found it that way but I also wasn't trying to penetrate it. In Richard Shillitoe's introduction to the new edition he discusses the different ways to read the book, and there he postulates that Colquhoun would have likely favored a 'let it all wash over you' type of reading versus a more rigorous, symbol-decoding approach.
Not to say there can't be pleasure in trying to sort through the symbols (any theories about the feather on p. 73?), and I think I would actually enjoy reading it again with more of an eye to that. But it feels like the kind of book one could study for many years, reading and rereading with varying types of experiences each time (as Merl seems to have discovered!).
Bill wrote: "I am so envious. Where is this? I can't seem to find an online listing...."It's at the Viktor Wynd: https://gorgoninfurs.com/2019/09/14/i...
Yes to the wash-over-you type of enjoyment. That was my experience, too. I wonder, though, why some books are more enjoyable to wash in than others. I've heard of people studying readers' difficult reactions to Kafka in terms of "meaning threat," a dissatisfaction that comes from not understanding what's going on. What is it that allows us in certain cases to turn off that alarm system and enjoy ourselves?
Merl wrote: "It's at the Viktor Wynd: https://gorgoninfurs.com/2019/09/14/i..."Ah of course. I've read the blog post, but overlooked the location part since I probably can't visit.
I'm embarrassed I've never heard of the Viktor Wynd; it looks totally up my alley. Let us know how the visit goes, and if you're able to avoid hipsters.
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "(any theories about the feather on p. 73?)"It's at least partly alchemical: the phase known as "putrefactio" is emblematised in alchemical texts by an image of a crow or raven. There's a nice selection of images here if you want to take a look: http://www.alchemywebsite.com/emb_cro...
A lot of the colour (and other) imagery in the novel is directly alchemical. Most obviously, the 12 chapter titles are the 12 "gates" of alchemy according to the 15th-century alchemist George Ripley (http://levity.com/alchemy/ripgates.html).
Thanks for sharing that, Merl. Those are beautiful, mystifying images. Kinda like this book.Yeah, that giant feather. Geesh. It sprang up from all this gothic destruction imagery and I thought DEATH. And then it creeped me out because the feather had its own gravity that pulled the narrator unavoidably towards it.
I wish I knew more about alchemy. I thought I might recognize a little of what I've picked up from reading Jung or whatever, but no dice. I was thinking that maybe putrefaction had something to do with the destruction and break-down that must occur before you can create anything new, but I'm probably only embarrassing myself with misguided theories.
Merl, I know alchemy is thought of, at least in some circles, as larger metaphor for personal transformation. Any insights on the role of putrefaction?
Nathanimal wrote: "Yes to the wash-over-you type of enjoyment. That was my experience, too. I wonder, though, why some books are more enjoyable to wash in than others. I've heard of people studying readers' difficult..."I suspect the reasons vary between readers, but for me a lot of it has to do with the form the narrative takes. I think Bill used the term 'episodic' earlier to describe this book. It's something you see in a lot of Surrealist fiction, where a character/narrator is on a journey or just walking around and encounters a series of strange scenes and/or experiences various phenomena. Typically the character/narrator is largely nonplussed by what is seen and/or experienced, which adds to the absurdity of it all. Anyway, this type of narrative generally has a hypnotic effect on me, to the point where I am incapable of doing nothing but simply continuing to turn the pages and gaping slack-jawed at what is going on. I'm usually not thinking about the 'why' usually because it's inexplicable, and therein lies much of its enjoyment for me.
Side note: I'm currently reading Jim Woodring's Frank collection and it consists solely of this type of narrative, except in graphic form without words. So it is even more extreme, and subsequently its hypnotic effect is that much stronger.
I do think in this book there is more structure available to the reader should one want to look for it, considering the idea of the steps of the alchemical process and the narrator moving through them. But I don't think it's necessary to read it closely on that level in order to enjoy it.
I also think, though, that some people's reading minds crave order and logic, to the point where they are incapable of enjoying works such as this, which speaks to your earlier point about it not being for everyone.
Merl wrote: "S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "(any theories about the feather on p. 73?)"It's at least partly alchemical: the phase known as "putrefactio" is emblematised in alchemical texts by an image of a crow or raven. T..."
Thanks! Very helpful. And yes, the images are stunning.
Nathanimal wrote: "I was thinking that maybe putrefaction had something to do with the destruction and break-down that must occur before you can create anything new [...]. I know alchemy is thought of, at least in some circles, as larger metaphor for personal transformation. Any insights on the role of putrefaction?"Exactly what you just said: the breakdown that precedes creation or rebirth. Very akin to the Death card in the tarot deck in that sense.
Bill wrote: "I'm embarrassed I've never heard of the Viktor Wynd; it looks totally up my alley. Let us know how the visit goes, and if you're able to avoid hipsters."I'll fend them off with a rolled-up copy of the Isle of Wight bus timetable. Usually does the trick.
I took a break from the goose last week, and decided to reread it from the beginning. Just finished Putrefaction last night.I think I see quite clearly the more conventional narrative sections, versus the dream-based sections, as S̶e̶a̶n̶ observed. I obviously enjoy the dream imagery, but I do have to slow down to take in the density of ideas. The main narrative just kind of floats along merrily though.
I really enjoyed Conjunctions/Corolla's Pinions, which seems to sit between the two types of material. (I had to look up "pinion", which is either a gear, or a feather on a bird's wing, both delightful meanings in context!) Corolla's almost incidental discovery of flight had me smiling.
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "I'm currently reading Jim Woodring's Frank collection and it consists solely of this type of narrative, except in graphic form without words. So it is even more extreme, and subsequently its hypnotic effect is that much stronger."I love Woodring's work. He's so good with those constantly evolving and unstable forms (something that I tinker with as well).
Another episodic, slippery, hypnotic book that we've enjoyed in this group: Laird Hunt's In the House in the Dark of the Woods.
Bill wrote: "I took a break from the goose last week, and decided to reread it from the beginning. Just finished Putrefaction last night.I think I see quite clearly the more conventional narrative sections, v..."
Bill, you didn't use a single edible goose pun in that message.
I hadn't thought of that meaning of the word pinion (the feather). That flight scene in the chapel was really wonderful.
Nathanimal wrote: "Bill, you didn't use a single edible goose pun in that message."My bad! I must have been choking on a feather.
I was hoping "opinion" had some connection with "pinion", but apparently they have different roots. (A flight of fancy, perhaps? I'm reaching.)
Thanks so much for having prompted me to re-read this. I enjoyed it even more than the first time.When I first read it (early 2014) I knew nothing of alchemy: now I know next to nothing, so it felt like yet another dreamlike element playing on me, making me aware that there was some schematic/theoretical framework which made sense of the book but was outside of my understanding. This isn't a bad thing, by the way: the vertiginous sensation of going somewhere unexplained was great. It was like being shown the symbols of an occult system without knowing what they mean - which I guess is exactly what it was.
I was struck even more than last time by the oneiric character of the writing: it genuinely has the feel of a sequence of interconnected dreams. I did remember this sensation from my last reading, but that may also have been about my personal receptiveness at the time: that reading took place during a wait for the results of medical tests and the worst bout of food poisoning I've ever had. (I had to put the book down during a flight from Stuttgart to London in order to be violently and repeatedly sick: if I knew more about occult systems I might suspect this was itself an important indicator of my interaction with the text).
Welcome to Literary Horror and the impromptu buddy read, Paul! Hope it's less physically demanding this time around.I appreciated Merl's alchemy primer as well; not an area I've spent any time exploring.
I'm about 2 or 3 chapters from the end. Sounds like everyone else who posted has scarfed down the bird? Any discreet participants we haven't heard from? (Whitney?)
Thanks Bill. I realised after posting that I'd just introduced myself in a perhaps unnecessarily grotesque way. Part of me still thinks that sort of visceral reaction to a book might be worth recording, although I'm pleased to say there's no indication of any equivalent physical response this time.I did, though, pop up to London yesterday to see the small Colquhoun exhibition Merl mentioned earlier. It was colossally irritating for a lot of reasons, but mainly because the gallery owners hadn't bothered to provide any information about the pictures. As some of them were part of the emerging occult system that informed Goose, it would have been helpful to have known how that all fitted together, particularly as the small number of pictures didn't provide an overview, unlike the totality of Goose, where the reader can see the whole picture even if they don't understand it.
Sorry to hear the exhibit could have been more rewarding, Paul.I'm done, but circled back to poke around the library in "Sublimation". Not surprisingly, "flitter-mouse" is a kind of bat. (Do you Brits still use that cute term?)
I googled a few of the items (could probably have saved myself the trouble by asking Merl!). Apparently the Sophic Hydrolith (great title, eh?) exists:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/hm1/...
As did Eirenaeus Philalethes, and his "An Open Entrance to the Closed Palace of the King". Doesn't that sound like the title of a Brian Evenson story?
'Flitter-mouse': I've not heard it in current usage, but it's sufficiently recognisable to be understandable. Joseph Wright's English Dialect Dictionary (1898-1905) reports it from a very large area of the country (Scotland all the way down the east coast and across most of the south and southwest), so it's pretty well-known historically.The existence of the source material points to the way Colquhoun was actually assembling a proper occult system. The chapter headings are from George Ripley's 'Twelve Gates', for example - https://www.alchemywebsite.com/ripgat... - which Eirenaeus Philalethes wrote a commentary on.
And yes, I agree, that Eirenaeus Philalethes title is gorgeous.
I don't have much to add to what other people have said. Like most here, I found this was a book best read in long stretches. I had the opposite of Nathanimal's experience in that when I first started I tired to read a little here and there and just couldn't focus, but when I finally read it straight for an hour or so I was completely hooked. I'm also in the "just let it wash over you" camp. Which is how I initially read most books that have unfamiliar sources or prose. A second reading is when I enjoy digging down into the deeper meanings. I would love to reread this book with someone who was knowledgeable about alchemy and it's influence on Colquhoun. Paul's link about the twelve gates and the chapter names is very cool (although I don't think I have the energy for the recommended 24 part study course in preparation for understanding the text).
I think 'dream world' books like this one work best when they are built on a coherent foundation, even if that foundation isn't noticed or understood by the reader. I definitely enjoyed spending a couple hours in this fascinating realm, even if it was as a clueless tourist just gawking at the fantastic sites. It was a similar experience to reading The Invention of Morel.
Re: Flitter-Mouse, I assumed it was a translation of the German Fledermaus, but looking into the etiology, it appears the term "fleder" was derived from the English "flutter", so I have no idea which came first. Regardless, it's a great term for a bat.
For those who don't have the new edition, this page on Richard Shillitoe's website about Ithell covers much of the same ground as his helpful foreword, with even more information on the themes and structure of the book.http://www.ithellcolquhoun.co.uk/goos...
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "For those who don't have the new edition, this page on Richard Shillitoe's website about Ithell covers much of the same ground as his helpful foreword..."Thanks for the link S̶e̶a̶n̶, an interesting read. Mine is one of the older editions, so I hadn't seen this text before.
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "For those who don't have the new edition, this page on Richard Shillitoe's website about Ithell covers much of the same ground as his helpful foreword, ..."Thanks S̶e̶a̶n̶! Yeah that's an intriguing article. Even if I'm hardly ever striving to (in Nate's words) "penetrate" the meaning of the text.
Merl, what did you think of the show at the Viktor Wynd? Not too many hipsters, I hope?
S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "For those who don't have the new edition, this page on Richard Shillitoe's website about Ithell covers much of the same ground as his helpful foreword, with even more information on the themes and ..."Thanks S̶e̶a̶n̶, I have an older copy and that post is really interesting. (I was going to take issue with his pigeon-holing of the book as "female gothic", a term that is dismissive, restricting, and isolating, IMHO, but a quick search showed that better scholarly minds than mine have already done a good job in tearing down the term.)
Literary Horror
Books mentioned in this topic
The Invention of Morel (other topics)The Invention of Morel (other topics)
In the House in the Dark of the Woods (other topics)
Goose of Hermogenes (other topics)
Colquhoun was a surrealist writer and painter, with an intriguing body of work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithell_...
A couple interesting articles:
https://booksyo.wordpress.com/2017/01...
http://www.artcornwall.org/features/I...
Goose is available in paper and as an e-book. I unfortunately did not realize that the later edition has reproductions of her paintings, and opted for the older paperback. Sigh.