The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2020 Booker Prize Speculation
A couple of leftfield ideas:We Germans - Alexander Starritt - a very clever narration of the WWII Eastern Front from a [possibly unreliable] German perspective
Broadwater - Jac Shreeves-Lee - a collection of stories of people who live on the Broadwater Farm estate in London - but would need to convince the judges it was a novel and not short stories - which may be had as the front cover says it is short stories...
Does anyone else think Exciting Times might possibly be a wildcard? Could be worth keeping in mind, as it's being compared quite a lot to the previous longlister Normal People.
Has anyone read The Pull of the Stars by Emma Donoghue - set in the Great Flu of 1918?
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I have seen it on a couple of people's prediction lists.
And possibly Too Much Lip by Melissa Lucaschenko - topical right now with BLM - although the publication date might have to be brought forward...
MisterHobgoblin wrote: "Has anyone read The Pull of the Stars by Emma Donoghue - set in the Great Flu of 1918?"I am reading it now. Nearly finished and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Such believable characters - they jump off the page. Donoghue is excellent at creating complexity in a limited setting. The sense of claustrophobia and the emotional tidal wave makes this a real page turner. Doubt it will make it on the longlist but possibly a contender for The Guardian's NOT the Booker Prize.
I really liked Exciting Times - not sure it fits this judging panel though.
Can I just say, I believe Mantel belongs on the longlist but would be mightily disappointed if she won. I have been thinking about thus quite a bit. (I am on summer holiday!) She has already won the Booker for the first two books in the trilogy and if she wins it again it almost feels she is being rewarded for more of the same. Although, 'the same' is of excellent quality. It's just that it has been done before. I am hoping for a really original novel to win this year.
I agree with you, Jo. I'm a huge fan of the trilogy - each book is exceptional, in my view - but I don't think she should win again. I do think she should be on the longlist.I'm wondering what others think about a thriller / spy title in light of Lee Child on the panel? I saw someone suggested The Accomplice which I think is an excellent contender for that slot. But are there others? I haven't read any new fiction from these genres this year. What else is strong and might appear on the list?
I'm also trying to think of which literary books have a strong thriller / mystery slant this year.
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Ideally they would circumvent this by creating some kind of special lifetime award. The trouble is that Mantel's advocates may see this book as the best part of the trilogy, which means that leaving it out at either longlist or shortlist stage would be controversial. But in theory each judging panel is entitled to form its own set of criteria, so it will be interesting to see how they handle it.
Being Canadian I'm also considering what we might see from here on the list. Any of the Giller Prize list could be contenders (I don't know their UK release dates). In particular, we could see Steven Price's Lampedusa, (the winner) Ian William's Reproduction, or (my fave) Michael Crummey's The Innocents. I would have thought that from the longlist, André Alexis's Days by Moonlight could be a contender - but I don't see a UK publisher?A couple of outside / genre suggestions from Canada. Sci-f writer William Gibson's Agency. And former Governor-General award winner Thomas King has published a well received mystery, The Obsidian Murders - not sure if it was published in the UK?
Finally, The Glass Hotel, which I think has a good shot and stradles the genre/literary divide. I thought it was a really solid read.
Laura wrote: "Does anyone else think Exciting Times might possibly be a wildcard? Could be worth keeping in mind, as it's being compared quite a lot to the previous longlister Normal People."Laura, I do think this has a chance of getting longlisted. While its sometimes clever marketing to compare a new novel with a best seller (nobody would resist or deny a Harry Potter comparison), and its possibly diminishing to an author to do so, I do think the Sally Rooney alignment is justified on literary grounds in this case.
In the acknowledgements Naoise Dolan says she would "particularly like to thank Sally Rooney". The characters are in their twenties so its even more closely comparable to Conversations With Friends
Agreed Jonathan. Sally Rooney first published Naoise Dolan - in Stinging Fly. The biggest difference for me is the dialogue - I need to think about this more but Sally Rooney’s can be very banal (which also makes it very realistic and is seen by some as a result strength and some as a very marked weakness) but the dialogue in Exciting Times really zings (but I think will grate in some readers). There are Ottessa Moshfegh influences as well.
went through the last 10 pages of this thread, and added a bunch to TBR. Um, thanks? The Readers Room posted our predictions. This was a hard year for me to predict, and I feel like there's going to be some left field noms.
https://wordpress.com/post/thereaders...
Jen wrote: "I'm wondering what others think about a thriller / spy title in light of Lee Child on the panel? I saw someone suggested The Accomplice which I think is an excellent contender for that slot. But are there others? I haven't read any new fiction from these genres this year. What else is strong and might appear on the list?"I wasn't a fan of The Accomplice and don't want it on the list. If it's there, at least that means I'll be one book 'ahead' - whereas if it's not and another mediocre thriller takes its spot...well...I will subject myself to another mediocre thriller.
The Accomplice really wasn't that bad - just not the kind of book I'm looking forward to seeing on the list.
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2020 has some strong contenders and big names but I'm hoping we will see a few deserving left-field titles that no one has predicted. [Emphasis on deserving.]
Also, I have no interest in either Coates' The Water Dancer or Lerner's The Topeka School so I'm hoping we won't see them - although if they make an appearance I will finally take the plunge and give them a shot (and probably enjoy them reasonably so).
Dylan wrote: "Jen wrote: "I'm wondering what others think about a thriller / spy title in light of Lee Child on the panel? I saw someone suggested The Accomplice which I think is an excellent contender for that ..."Same for me Dylan, re hopes for quality surprises on the list.
I haven't read The Accomplice. But I do expect we'll see something genre-leaning, at the very least.
Jen wrote: "Being Canadian I'm also considering what we might see from here on the list. Any of the Giller Prize list could be contenders (I don't know their UK release dates). In particular, we could see Stev..."I agree about The Glass Hotel. I like to think the international intrigue elements will appeal to a certain judge and improve its chances. It was a real page-turner for me.
Jen wrote: I saw someone suggested The Accomplice which I think is an excellent contender for that slot..."That was my Jen really quite a long time ago when Lee Child mentioned it as his best fiction pick of 2019.
I read it as a result and exactly like Dylan would only like to see it on the list if it prevents me having to read another mediocre thriller.
It reminder me of "Snap" in that I could not see it as a good example of its genre - and I do read some books of both genres on holidays - but experts in the genre (Val McDermid, Lee Child) completely disagree.
Nicholas wrote: "I agree about The Glass Hotel. I like to think the international intrigue elements will appeal to a certain judge and improve its chances. It was a real page-turner for me..."I would love to see this on - read alongside Station Eleven you realise a whole other depth to the novel with the deliberate intertextuality between the two (like a David Mitchell).
And given its topic - economic collapse in a world where an alternative world with a deadly virus was narrowly avoided - I feel like a strong argument could be made for its topicality.
I am hoping it appeals to Lee Child also - Station Eleven was on one level a thriller, and a very commercially successful one.
Dylan wrote: "Also, I have no interest in either Coates' The Water Dancer or Lerner's The Topeka School so I'm hoping we won't see them - although if they make an appearance I will finally take the plunge and gi..."Both books I have sourced in the last year (Topeka School from the library after a long wait list, Water Dancer both as an ARC and then in hard copy) but then not felt motivated to read after flicking through plus reading other reviews (positive and negative). I think like you it would need a longlisting to force me and in some ways I would like to be forced on both.
I agree on The Glass Hotel being partly a thriller. In a way, so is Sisters by Daisy Johnson. Hopefully, Lee Child will like see it that way too and will like them for it.
One thing I have missed this year is any press speculation on the longlist.However browsing through Twitter I just saw the following article on the Portugese online newspaper Observador
https://observador.pt/2020/07/27/long...
And what is particularly brilliant about it is that the whole article basically draws 100% on Doug's Listopia (which I know many of us have contributed to) at the start of this whole thread.
The article is paywalled but is free via the papers on Twitter feed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iris...I thought this was an interesting article. Just wish there was a better spread of opinions across the media.
Thanks. Great article particularly for the well informed speculation on what Lee Child May choose.
P.S. Forgot to mention Offill's Weather as a potential U.S. contender, but I would place it a rung below Olive Again, The Dutch House or The Topeka School.Jo, thanks for that article. It's interesting that Actress leads their list while still not on the M&G compiled list here (so far)...
Mod
I will be the one posting the threads for each of the longlisted books as well as the longlist discussion thread. This will be announced at 5:00 p.m. my time, and that means I might be on my commute. I am trying to avoid this, and I think I will, but just in case I wanted folks here to know the reason right now should there be a small delay.
There are enough good books for two lists this year and still some would be excluded.
For the record here are the current top 13 on Doug's listopia (first post). At least 20 people have voted on it plus others helped with checking eligibility including several of the mods and members here.The Mirror and The Light
Summer
Apeirogon
Weather
Strange Hotel
Utopia Avenue
The Water Dancer
The Liar’s Dictionary
Olive, Again
That Reminds Me
Actress
Hamnet
My Dark Vanessa
In my experience this list functions well as a record of how "predictable" the longlist is
In the 2017 list Hugh mentions above, the longlist featured
8 of the top 10
11 of the top 20
(only the two "unknown" debuts - Elmet and History of Wolves were not in the top 20 and even History of Wolves was 26th).
By contrast the 2018 left field longlist featured
3 of the top 20
7 of the top 40 I think, and a whole host of books not even in the listed 160
Last year as back to 2017 predictability. The longlist featured
8 of the top 20
12 of the top 30
(only The Wall at 56 was not in the top 30)
I will attempt to check this for the 2020 list
Oops, I didn't mean it as any criticism by referring to the absence of Actress on the "M&G combined list" - I had in mind the one that pulled out those with 2 or more listings in message 692 (sorry don't know how to link to it). I myself was eager to read it when it came out, even ordered a copy, but then put priorities on other novels because the reactions were mixed, not only among those whose reviews I read on GR (mostly M&G members), but also in the press.
Vena my post was not in any way in negative response to yours - in fact quite the opposite your post reminded me to check the listopia for an alternative view to our Mookse one (albeit with some overlap).
I see one of the judges replied earlier today to a tweet by Hugh saying “there will be surprises”. He also replied to a tweet about domination by large publishers saying “we read plenty of books by small indies” (did but not actually say if any would make it).
I just ordered Apeirogon, but I have to find The Liar’s Dictionary overseas or wait until Jan 2021.I was thinking what Sam mentioned, there seems to be far more than enough good titles this year to have a stellar Long and Short list.
Jen wrote: "Being Canadian I'm also considering what we might see from here on the list. Any of the Giller Prize list could be contenders (I don't know their UK release dates). In particular, we could see Stev..."Lampedusa sounds wonderful, so does The Innocents. It would be nice to see our beloved Cananda on the list!
I spot a familiar name :o)
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I see one of the judges replied earlier today to a tweet by Hugh saying “there will be surprises”. He also replied to a tweet about domination by large publishers saying “we read plenty of books ..."
👀 at that Sameer tweet. What's our most feared snub? There aren't many "locks" and the main one (TM&TL) is divisive... so I feel like it's Apeirogon?
Robert! You’ve made the Kirkus review, good for you! Now we can name drop you in our literary conversations with the common people. :)
The only bookish advantage to living in the states, and it is the only advantage, is the UK is 5 hours ahead, so we American in the midwest will see the Longlist at 7 this evening and have 5 hours to get our books stacks up next to our reading chair. I’ll need another library cart, the one I have is loaded with unread WIT. The travails of readers...nobody knows how we suffer...
Nicholas wrote: "Gumble's Yard wrote: "👀 at that Sameer tweet. What's our most feared snub."The sense of the tweet was I think positive surprises (Hugh referenced Milkman and The Long Take) - but yes I guess based on collective votes Apeirogon would be the most feared snub (although I can see it happening on two grounds (both of which I have seen mentioned in longlist speculation)
(a) that it's controversial - see the NYT which (as mentioned in the Irish Times article Jo posted at 777) actually ran two reviews. For me the controversy is the strength - its been given very bad reviews by people on either side of the conflict who think it biased against them
(b) that it's not really actually fiction
Vesna, I haven't made a prediction list but I would definitely like to see Actress on the longlist.
I enjoyed Actress, especially after the interview at the Hay Festival I saw (online). I have The Mirror & the Light and Hamnet in print, which I bought after the Hay Festival as well, so I would love to see them on the list. I also have the audio of Apeirogon ready to go from the library. I'm getting really excited to see the list!
MisterHobgoblin wrote: "And possibly Too Much Lip by Melissa Lucaschenko - topical right now with BLM - although the publication date might have to be brought forward..."Melissa Lucaschenko's Too Much Lip and Tara June Winch's The Yield I hope make longlists and further but perhaps an issue with publication dates in the UK?
Schindler's Ark wasn't actually fiction and it won the Booker Prize
Agreed - hopefully judges do also.
Karen Michele wrote: "I enjoyed Actress, especially after the interview at the Hay Festival I saw (online). I have The Mirror & the Light and Hamnet in print, which I bought after the Hay Festival as well, so I would lo..."Just over an hour now. The Hay Festival talks were so good this year. O Farrell's talk was enlightening. I am also enjoying the Live At Home events on FB. Ken Follett did such an incredible talk on his writing and his new novel The Evening and the Morning - but that's next year's longlist discussion.
I don't think Apeirogon will be snubbed because of nonfiction reasons, but there are perhaps too many books from Ireland this year, if such a thing is possible.I'm pouring Guinness and hoping I stay awake.
Just checked and Follett's prequel to his epic (and one of my favourite books ever) The Pillars of the Earth is published in September! I ordered it such a long time ago that I thought it was only published in October. Any reason why this would not make the longlist?
What do you think is the likelihood that Hamnet misses the longlist?Guess will know soon, under an hour :)
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
The Vanishing Half (other topics)The Accomplice (other topics)
Exciting Times (other topics)
Reproduction (other topics)
Days by Moonlight (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
André Alexis (other topics)Emily St. John Mandel (other topics)
Naoise Dolan (other topics)
Deepa Anappara (other topics)
Maaza Mengiste (other topics)
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Nicholas wrote: "Here's my speculation list for the heck of it. It's quite similar to that of some other folks on here. I've read 4.5 of these, which is probably a sign that it won't be all that accurate. :)
The M..."
Thanks. I will update the list once I have finished work for the day, and maybe again just before the announcement if necessary. I am not checking for edited comments because this thread is too long to make that easy.