Horror Aficionados discussion
This topic is about
Killer Lake
Group Reads: Guest Author Invite
>
October 2019 Group Read #2 with Guest Authors, W.D. Gagliani and David Benton
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Kenneth
(new)
-
rated it 3 stars
Sep 24, 2019 01:29PM
Mod
reply
|
flag
Thanks for having us, Ken.I hope everyone who joins us here has as much fun reading Killer Lake as Bill and I did writing it. I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts about the book.
Thanks for the fine introduction, Ken! Very atmospheric...Thanks also for having us here, where we can have a good time with KL and how we approached it. As Dave says above, we did enjoy writing the book and hope everyone who reads it will ride along on the wave we were balancing on. So it's nice to "see" you all!
Just picked up my copy of Killer Lake and I’m extremely excited to jump right into it! Thank you to you both for doing this!
Jack wrote: "Just picked up my copy of Killer Lake and I’m extremely excited to jump right into it! Thank you to you both for doing this!"Thank you, Jack! Thanks for buying our book and thank you for participating in the discussion.
Mod
Sure, ask a difficult one right off the bat. I was kind of hoping for, "What's your favorite color?" or "Where do you get your ideas?"Influences. I guess if you're asking about literary influences I've always been a fan of the O.G.s, Lovecraft, Machen, Blackwood, Le Fanu, M.R. James. And also a big fan of Clive Barker and Ramsey Campbell. I'm not sure exactly how directly they have influenced my writing because my style is nothing like the aforementioned writers, but they were inspirational.
My biggest influences were probably the group of friends I had in the early 80s. We spent many hours playing AD&D watching horror films on VHS, listening to heavy metal, and reading horror and fantasy novels as well as comic books. I'm sure they had a huge influence on my developing tastes in everything. That was a very influential period in my life in general.
Also the hours I spent watching "Shock Theater" in the 70s when I was just a sapling. All of the Universal, Hammer, and Toho films were regularly featured.
And also the Warren Publishing magazines, Eerie, Creepy, and Famous Monsters of Filmland.
I didn't start writing until about 1996. When my youngest daughter had learned how to read I began taking her to the library weekly. When we got books for her I would stop in the horror section and pick up an anthology or collection for myself. Having recently given up being a musician (I have since returned and continue to play in a local band in the Milwaukee area), I needed a creative outlet, so I began to write.
Nine years later I sold my first short story. That sale gave me the confidence to reach out to other authors. I contacted the Chicago chapter of the HWA and they suggested I get in contact with W.D. Gagliani as he was an active member and very involved in the horror writing scene. After a couple of years of workshopping together, I think Bill and I wrote our first collaborative short story in 2007.
Since then it's been a bare-knuckle boxing match with the creative gods. Occasionally we land a punch. Mostly I get my ass kicked.
Jack wrote: "Just picked up my copy of Killer Lake and I’m extremely excited to jump right into it! Thank you to you both for doing this!"Thanks for reading, Jack! Hope you dig the book!
Kenneth wrote: "Bill and David, can you tell us who your influences were and a little about how both you became authors?"Thanks for the question, Ken. I'm fairly old, so the long version is...long!
The short version is that although I started out as a reader of SF, mysteries, and thrillers (mostly British, btw), I found myself in the mid-70s as a guy who loved books like Hell House by Matheson and The Rats by Herbert. Now, I had technically been writing tales since I was in grade school -- my first werewolf story was handwritten in class in the 4th grade and read to the other students by our teacher, a nun! So, yeah, I'd already lost my soul, lol. But anyway, I read a lot of SF, edging toward the more social and psychological version that I'd later find was the New Wave (Harlan Ellison became an idol), but also mysteries -- all types but mainly hard-boiled, as in Chandler -- and thrillers, mostly British as in Alistair MacLean, Ian Fleming, Desmond Bagley, Duncan Kyle, Jack Higgins, et al. And those strange guys, Herbert and Matheson (whose Hell House really pushed the boundaries back then -- marked me indelibly as a writer who would try to do the same). And then in 1976 I picked up a paperback by an unknown named Stephen King and scared myself shitless reading it alone after school (I was a latch-key kid) as the winter skies of Wisconsin darkened by about 4:30 pm. The book was 'Salem's Lot and I was lost because I knew that was what I wanted to do.
I redoubled my efforts, took Creative Writing in HS as an elective, and wrote some short stories that sold to no one in the 70s, but went on (after much rewriting) to sell in the 90s, for actual money (not a lot, but enough to feed the fire). In the meantime college got in the way and I stopped writing for a while as my major was Geology...until I realized I wasn't kidding anyone and added English as a "second" major.
So then I started writing again, and by this time it was the 80s and I read classic magazines like The Horror Show and Twilight Zone and "met" the Splatterpunks (you know who they are) and found my new direction. While I still loved King and Straub, and others in that vein (such as Charles Grant, whose horror is much "quieter"), I was thrilled by the idea that horror need not be supernatural, that the serial killer could be your neighbor, or your husband, or your father... And I started to write more in that direction. But I was always expanding, and calling forth the SF New Wave, as well as learning about Lovecraft and so forth, and I just kept making my blender larger and larger. I added new names to my list of favorites: Lansdale, McCammon, Laymon, Skipp & Spector, Schow, Lee, and others such as F. Paul Wilson (who wrote epic thrillers and still does), and more, such as the "proto-Steampunk" guys Tim Powers and James Blaylock... I'd grown up reading Jules Verne, so this new early Steampunk subgenre really scored with me. I found I loved Charles De Lint equally with Bob Bloch. These different influences swirled together in my head. I had also read mags like Famous Monsters when I was a kid, when I could afford to buy it, and for sure the Universal Monsters had scared me silly on Creature Features out of Chicago's WGN on Saturday nights... so if you add all that up, you get a sense of what influenced me at any given time. I especially liked books that blended genres and unconsciously gravitated to that form, so for instance I enjoyed Alternate History with Horror, and literary pastiche, and of course I still enjoyed the "tougher" (I think of it as "hard-noir") crime-related horror of the Splatterpunks.
It's rather fitting that Dave and I have been published in Splatterpunk Zine and a couple of their anthologies, and that Killer Lake was published by Deadite Press (Eraserhead), which is where you can still find some of those same Splatterpunks and their descendants today. For a while the term was considered in poor taste, but it seems to be returning to favor especially as it blends with the "bizarro" subgenre to spawn a whole new canon and a whole new cadre of writers.
So I guess this was the long version, after all. There are many other names I could drop -- for instance many of my former colleagues at Leisure Books, whose novels also meant a lot to me and whose status as colleagues at the same publisher also helped pump life into my writing. I loved being a Leisure author, where my first three Nick Lupo novels were published...
Since my own Nick Lupo series is about a werewolf, I should add that of the Universal Monsters, I was most frightened by (and also moved by) The Wolf Man, a tragic anti-hero who would make a strong impression on my young writer's sponge-like brain. Taking the day to day existence of a werewolf and treating it seriously I would create the character whose experiences would go on to blend with some youthful autobiography in my first novel, Wolf's Trap (still technically in print after 16 years, now with Crossroad Press!). Every road takes you somewhere, and this varied road took me here... and when Dave and I met and hit it off as friends first, it was a good day because when the time came for me to look for a cowriter to pen a music-related horror tale, as a musician he was the guy I asked. The process was so successful (and fun and rewarding) that we just kept doing it (while still also writing solo), and eventually we ended up with a dozen or more collaborative short stories published in numerous anthologies and (so far) two collab novels. And we have more on the drafting board. And so here we are...
Hello David and Bill, I just started Killer Lake and blitzed through a lot of it in one sitting! I’m incredibly impressed with how much you’ve both nailed the 80s horror aesthetic but add your own unique twists to it. One of my questions is in regard to the way your story is told. It has an incredibly quick and punchy pace that feels very cinematic! I was wondering how important pacing was for you both when writing Killer Lake? Furthermore, do you find writing in this style comes a bit easier to you due to your influences and/or past creative writing projects or if this was something you were constantly struggling/grappling with when writing this book?
I really enjoyed learning about your pathways into creative writing and influences, thanks for your thoughtful answers!
Jack wrote: "Hello David and Bill, I just started Killer Lake and blitzed through a lot of it in one sitting! I’m incredibly impressed with how much you’ve both nailed the 80s horror aesthetic but add your own ..."Good question, Jack. Thank you.
I would say that my style actually is pretty quick and punchy, while Bill tends to be more descriptive and meatier. This helps balance out our collaborative work. And we tend to go back and forth in terms of style depending on the project. Some of our short work has been slow paced, quiet, and atmospheric.
For this piece we consciously decided that we wanted it fast paced. It seemed to fit the work. We also wanted to keep it short without compromising any of our plot elements.
Writing the book went pretty smoothly. The biggest obstacles to completing it were time consuming personal issues. We actually had a lot of fun working on it.
Jack wrote: "Hello David and Bill, I just started Killer Lake and blitzed through a lot of it in one sitting! I’m incredibly impressed with how much you’ve both nailed the 80s horror aesthetic but add your own ..."I'm glad you liked it, Jack.
We were conscious of keeping it at a sort of "movie pace" if you will. It's meant to be experienced as a Saturday night popcorn and beer kind of feature, and adding too much exposition and description would have weighed it down.
We sketched in the backgrounds we needed, but kept them minimal so they wouldn't get in the way. It's a much shorter novel than either of our solo efforts would tend to be, and benefits from the pace that results.
We had the book on the drafting table a long while, and as Dave says we were busy with personal Life issues, but it actually didn't take us that long in writing time. My sense is that often our collaborations come naturally, with Dave giving us a strong forward motion and me dragging us down with extra words, LOL. As you could see from my growth path, the writers I tended to love (and later imitate) tended to be wordier. I think I've learned quite a lot about using the "right" details to fill out a plot without bogging it down. You need to use a fair amount of paint, if you will, but it doesn't have to be layered on thickly. Some projects you might want the depth, but this wasn't the kind that called for it.
The fact that you blitzed through it means we were able to keep it hopping without tripping over ourselves too much. Our styles blend nicely anyway, so we rarely have to do a lot of repair work.
Much of this happens organically usually. We might decide a target length, but as I remember in this case we just tasked ourselves with keeping it moving. And we did have fun writing it, especially the climactic portions!
Bill, could you tell us what you're working on now?
Hello David and Bill, I just recently finished the book and really enjoyed it thank you for your work. It really did feel like a great Saturday night popcorn movie! I wanted to ask if you think you will ever revisit Killdeer Lake or it’s inhabitants? I really enjoyed the final couple of chapters which explored another part of the surrounding area and the people/creatures within it (won’t give away spoilers here).
Also I wanted to ask, what 80s horror troupes did you want to embrace, or play homage to, when writing this book? Are there any troupes that you dislike and wanted to avoid including in your narrative?
Thanks again for being so thorough with you answers. I’m eager to hear about and follow your future projects and catch up on some of your old ones
Jack wrote: "Hello David and Bill, I just recently finished the book and really enjoyed it thank you for your work. It really did feel like a great Saturday night popcorn movie! I wanted to ask if you think y..."
Thank you, Jack. I'm really glad that you enjoyed the book!
I would definitely consider revisiting Killer Lake if sales warranted a return. We have plenty of other ideas that are worth exploring. I think I would enjoy trying to combine a whole new set of elements to create a second book with a similar feel but a completely different set of circumstances.
I had originally pitched the idea of an undead revenant story to Bill, thinking of the films Friday the 13th and Halloween. Bill liked the idea but wanted to do something with a Satanic cult. After a short discussion we quickly came to the conclusion that those ideas could work well together. We ended up using Danny to bridge those two different concepts and from there we decided that we might as well go all in and see how many different tropes we could add and still maintain a seamless plot. We wanted all these elements to feel like they belonged together.
I don't think we intentionally avoided anything. As long as we could make them fit everything was in consideration. That's what would make a second book so much fun to work on, trying to blend together a whole new set of tropes!
Thanks for asking great questions, Jack. Hopefully we can all return to Killer Lake at some future date.
David wrote: "Bill, could you tell us what you're working on now?"Ha ha, very funny, Dave!
Um...there's that novel WE are working on at the moment, you know the one with the secret plot. A third of the way, baby! High-five!
I am also plotting another Western, but it's not on the drafting table yet. No, I don't even have a drafting table.
David wrote: "Jack wrote: "Hello David and Bill, I just recently finished the book and really enjoyed it thank you for your work. It really did feel like a great Saturday night popcorn movie! I wanted to ask i..."
Hi Jack, Dave's answer pretty much covers everything concisely! I would add that we didn't consciously exclude anything, but had we added (for instance) a scarred, masked stranger who kills kids in their cabins, or something (which we totally could have done!), the extra background would have made the book longer and maybe have been a drag on the pace. But...there's always the next Killer Lake book!
I agree with Dave that another visit to Killer Lake could be warranted, and then we could bring in that scarred stranger. And the strange fog that rises every morning from Killdeer Lake. And the aquatic creature that lives just beneath its surface...And the alien who crashed to earth in a glowing meteorite...And -- well, you get the idea.
I'd had a Satanic cult ritual very similar written decades ago, when I was a youngster trying to create the next Carl Kolchak. In the shadows, my (mostly regurgitated) Kolchak-style character (who did not wear a seersucker suit) hid with his camera, soon realizing there would be an actual sacrifice. That chunk never went anywhere, but I reinvented it here from memory (without the hidden character) as the start of Killer Lake because that was one trope I always wanted to use. Good example why writers should never really toss anything...you never know where it'll fit in another project.
Thanks for your interest. Good questions!
Mod
Kenneth wrote: "Just cracked this open at lunch. I do love a good ritual!"Right? Who doesn't?
Kenneth wrote: "Just cracked this open at lunch. I do love a good ritual!"Only not "good," right? That could muck things up...
Mod
Thanks for checking in, Ken. I didn't feel we walked that line at all. In a way, we did carbon copy some of the familiar elements...what makes the result a homage is that we created original characters who surprised us in what they chose to do (or not do) after we gave them life. It always comes back to the characters and their ability to take over their own lives. I think we created some memorable characters within the parameters of the elements we wanted to use. I think most readers, for instance, will have a difficult time predicting just who the heroes will be. Those characters wrote their own fates. In essence, they told us they weren't gonna walk no line! And they instead they fell into a burning ring of fire.
Kenneth wrote: "On the way to Killdeer Lake, I love the nostalgic feeling that keeps hitting me in waves while reading this. This has that wonderful mishmash feeling of all the 80s slasher flicks that I grew up on..."I never felt that it was difficult to keep it fresh yet familiar. As Bill said, the characters took it part of the way, but also putting all of the elements we wanted to work into the novel together - and keeping it sensible enough to not be full-blown ridiculous (though it threatens sometimes) - we knew it would become distinctive without us having to push it. I'm glad to hear that it gave you a sense of nostalgia, because that was our intent. Now hopefully as you dig further it will take you to places you don't expect.
Mod
Though Killer Lake is our first collaborative novel intended for adults, Bill and I have written collaboratively since 2007. In that time, we've experimented with a number of different techniques. In the case of Killer Lake, we discussed it thoroughly in advance, talked about the main plot points and decided upon a few key scenes. From there it took on a life of its own. The characters mostly wrote themselves and many of the scenes were spontaneous, but we made sure to hit all of the things we had originally discussed adding a few new wrinkles on the way.
On this piece, I took point and pushed out a rough draft that hit most of the major plot points, leaving a number of previously determined scenes blank for Bill to write as he wished. From there Bill and I each took a pass though it to make sure our styles meshed so it wasn't too obvious who had written each scene, and to fill out the original draft.
On the piece we are currently working on we've changed rolls and Bill is writing most of the arc while I'm writing a few of the key scenes. Then we'll each go though it to make sure it all fits together well.
So, I guess we did have an outline, but it was loose.
Dave's description of our process for this project is right on. Our outlines tend to be verbal discussions, with notes taken and added to the ongoing manuscript (we use Google Docs). We don't outline the plot to death -- we make sure we have points to hit, we make sure we have action spread out, and we make sure we have a direction in mind.
We may create an ongoing synopsis of a couple tight pages for the purpose of selling the book to an editor, but as I remember we did not do this in the case of Killer Lake. We did create a synopsis for the current project, but as in all our synopses and "outlines" it is entirely fluid and subject to alteration. Sometimes one of us will write something in conflict with something already written, which is a sort of typical peril when dealing with two busy people whose memories might be failing (mostly mine, LOL). But the other is likely to notice, and of course our combined pass-throughs will number a couple dozen by the time we're done so we don't worry about catching these. In a way, these glitches make the collaborative process fun and engaging.
I should mention that we have also worked with both of us in the file at the same time, but in different places, and we have occasionally written while in the same room, and we have edited together as well as separately (shorter works lend themselves to a combined page edit). So we have indeed used a variety of techniques, which I think keeps the process fresh. Thanks!
Happy Halloween!Looks like Bill and I's month is up. I wanted to thank Ken for having us, and Jack for participating. Hope you both (and anyone else who may have read the book) enjoyed Killer Lake.
Bill and I will be signing copies of Killer Lake (as well as some of our other titles) at Bucket O Blood Books and Records in Chicago, IL on Sunday, November 10th and at the Oak Creek Public Library in Oak Creek, WI on Saturday, November 23rd.
Keep your eyes open for more Gagliani/Benton collaborations coming in the future!
Thanks again, and cheers!
BOO!Sorry, didn't mean to scare you...but our time here has come to an end (or will in a few hours).
Just wanted to echo Dave and thank Ken for having us over for this pajama party, Jack for having some good questions, and everyone who read or will read Killer Lake -- thanks for reviewing it. If you haven't, give us a moment and jot down your thoughts, as it really does help. We hope to see you again soon, if not at Killer Lake then somewhere else... (But avoid the woods...really, nothing good happens in the deep, dark woods...)
Happy Helloween!
