Jordan, Hillary ; Mudbound - Informal Buddy Read; Start date 2 January 2015

[Stacie]

B'burg Linda wrote: "I'm almost finished with Part 1 and am liking it so much more than I thought I would. I have to remember that just because a book deals with a painful subject is no reason to avoid the book, espec..."

AHHAHA to your last part :)

[Sarah]

Stacie wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I just read Ronsel's first chapter and prejudices can be seen from many sides [spoilers removed]"

I was fascinated by the differences in racism from one continent to the other. I'm ..."

I think one of the most important books on US History, which introduces the foundations of racism in the US within the first few chapters, is . I have only read the first few chapters, but it is a must read for history, not the scrap they feed us in our high schools.

[Stacie]

Oh cool, thanks Sarah.

[Margaret]

I have finished the book (view spoiler)[I didn't expect this book to be as good as it turned out to be. I think the later part took on a somewhat dramatic soapishness angle, at least it seemed that way. Not bad for a debut. I part about the tenant who molested the one daughter appalled me. It reminded something that my mother had told me from her childhood where the men in her Ohio farm community made sure a molester in their community had an "accident" with a pitchfork in his barn in which he was killed. She said back then (1930's) they took care of situations like that on their own. I wasn't surprised by the prejudice or the KKK crimes against blacks. I was hoping for more depth and lessons learned, something of a grander scale but all in all, I enjoyed it. (hide spoiler)]

[B'burg Linda]

I finished the book a couple of days ago, but wanted to think about it before posting. Overall, I enjoyed the book; it captured my interest from the start, and some of Jordan's prose was quite beautiful. The characters will probably stay in my mind for quite some time as the multiple narratives were well done, and each voice seemed quite unique. I so wonder if it would have been difficult to keep them straight if one was listening to an audio version.

However, I was disappointed that much of the story was predictable. (view spoiler)[ It seemed inevitable that something terrible would happen to Ronsel and that Laura would sleep with Jamie. There were a few surprises (Ronsel thankfully doesn't die, Jamie has to choose what form of maiming the KKK would mete out to Ronsel, and Jamie is the one who murders Pappy), but these didn't offset the predictability of the story for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I am still in Part II, but gonna read more now. I can say one thing (view spoiler)[So glad Vera murdered her husband, now he deserved it. (hide spoiler)]

[Srividya]

I just started reading this. Am in Part I and am currently reading Ronsel's POV. Initial thoughts

(view spoiler)[Discrimination against the African Americans really gets to me. It bugs the hell out of me, which is why I am reading this book in a constant state of mad and anger..Hmm not a good way to read a book actually. Somehow I can't help relate a lot to it - in a much different setting but similar circumstances. Let me explain (Margaret - don't laugh at me for linking this once again to personal/Indian context! ;) )

In India, we have a similar issue, especially with the caste based system that is rampant here. Here the Scheduled Castes and Tribes or the lowest in the so called ranking system of the castes are the ones who are discriminated most. This is more rampant in the rural parts of India, although I won't say that it doesn't exist in the urban areas, its just that in the urban areas it is more sophisticated in its delivery (if I can call it that and that was sarcasm by the way) and more sedate. However, in the rural areas, where caste based discrimination is really alive, I have dealt with cases where people have been murdered or raped or even looted, simply because they belonged to the wrong caste. They are not allowed to draw water from the village well but have to travel miles to get water for themselves, because they are 'impure' or will make the village water impure! It BUGS me.. and to read something similar, even when you know it did exist added to the fact that you have already read about it in many books, it still makes you mad.

Okay rant over now back to the book - With regard to Henry - I know its just the beginning but I can't see any reason why he had to marry Laura (I hope I got the name right.).. there just didn't seem to be any kind of explanation to that relationship. Is it me or did anyone here feel that it was forced? Maybe for the book/story? I felt it too tame or I don't know weird.

Jamie - I think he was abused and in turn became an alcoholic, as if that solves the problem?Hah!

I think they murdered the father.. at least that's what I think right now. Too early to say which way this book will go for me but as of now I am liking and hating it, both at the same time, if that is possible. (hide spoiler)]

PS - I hope someone is here to chat with me as I keep ranting away! ;)

[Margaret]

Srividya wrote: "I just started reading this. Am in Part I and am currently reading Ronsel's POV. Initial thoughts

Discrimination against the African Americans really gets to me. It bugs the hell out of me, which ..."

Srividya....if you didn't bring your perspective, aka rants, I wouldn't have as much fun here on GR! I love hearing about India and what it is like over there and your thoughts....I love it! I can't get enough hearing about other countries and cultures, I am known to ask perfect strangers...so (view spoiler)[yes, prejudice has always irked me. I grew up in a community of Hispanics and African Americans. My graduating High School class were half white and half non-whites. I never saw or felt prejudice while going there. I think we all really got along very well and I know that I would have picked up on it because I am quite sensitive. If anything that I do see is prejudice against Mexicans and Punjabi people. We live within 50 miles of one of the largest Punjabi communities in the US and where I happen to shop quite often. So, I see and feel the attitudes. My neurologist is a Punjabi and a Sikh. I think I made him wonder why I asked about India thinking I was making a negative assessment about him. He loosened up as soon as I said I am interested and I have a neighbor that visits India often....blah, blah. One of my favorite genres to read about is about race and the experience of others peoples. See, now I am on a rant.

So, I agree I never understood why Henry and Laura got married. I don't know if it was intentional or the author failed to bring that story together well. I wondered if Laura felt pressured? But by whom? That whole part seemed a bit too iffy for me. And Pappy, don't let me get started! My father actually was very prejudiced and I would seethe when he would use all kinds of names and references. Perhaps that is why I hate prejudice. I thought of my Dad reading about Pappy, he wasn't as bad but still. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Also slavery exists in India, according to my brother, all though illegal, it really isn't enforced, including not being enforced by the U.S. - making us culpable. And my brother says that the U.S. and India are great allies. I don't know all the politics, but I want to learn more. There is a book on the sex slave trade I have been really wanting to read - A Walk Across the Sun. I need to learn more.

Now, a book I read last year that I feel did a good job about expressing racism in America today and the black experience and trying to explain white priviledge, but is still fiction, is Americanah.

I struggle with my own issues and trying to addresses it all within my family and myself, trying to understand my own white privileges, dealing with my own anger at constantly feeling like I am being held responsible somehow for what our dead fathers have done. My daughter is bi-racial, as is our President. I have felt and dealt with prejudice toward me from several black woman who clearly have issues with a black man being with a white woman. Several of my black friends have said that my daughter is black, not white, that is how it is. I, apparently, her mother, am completely discounted apparently - and it is my job to raise her to be a strong black woman. I get so fed up with it all - all the political correctness, all the layers, all the issues. It is like a dysfunctional family if you ask me. But I just continue to try to educate myself and examine and challenge my own beliefs, and others, and chip away at my own ignorance. That is all I can do.

[Margaret]

Sarah wrote: "Also slavery exists in India, according to my brother, all though illegal, it really isn't enforced, including not being enforced by the U.S. - making us culpable. And my brother says that the U.S...."

Sarah...I love hearing about your story! again, I love these BRs because we learn about each other and discuss such issues! You hit it right on the nail with your comment referring it to a dysfunctional family, so true! Personally I have had several black boyfriends and I tried to keep it a secret from my family. At the time, my uncle who was very prejudiced did find out and the rumors were spreading like wild fire...ugh! One of my boyfriends while in college was from Nigeria and I was so enthralled with his view of looking at the world and it was so fascinating, I loved it! Knowing him I was able to meet oodles of people from Africa and attended a few functions, I loved every minute of it. BTW, I love it when you give book referrals. :)

[Margaret]

Sarah wrote: "Also slavery exists in India, according to my brother, all though illegal, it really isn't enforced, including not being enforced by the U.S. - making us culpable. And my brother says that the U.S...."

you know Sarah, I forgot to say that I feel that you have brought up something that really bothers me. When a bi-racial child's white mother (or father) is discounted when they being a contributor to their child's race. I think you are the first person who has ever mentioned it, I am so glad that you did. There is a book out there I have can't remember the name of...where a black man (well, bi-racial!) writes a tribute book to his white mother. You probably know the book. :)

[Sarah]

Yes I listened to the audio last year, it is called The Color of Water: A Black Man's Tribute to His White Mother. It was read by the author. He also wrote a fiction book I want to read called The Good Lord Bird.

I have to say Americanah has the protagonist as a Nigerian woman and she differentiates between Africans in America, called American Africans, and African American. I think there exists a whole different level of hatred and resentment and anger on the part of the African American due to such recent and deep rooted racism, bigotry, and oppression. It really is a good book - maybe it was biased, but it really got me thinking and questioning. Anyway I could talk about so much, but I do want to promote my favorite book I read last year - - it is historical fiction based on the Grimké sisters. They came from a family of plantation and slave owners. These women left there family and became Quaker and became the first female spokespeople for the abolition movement... as well as equal rights and woman's suffrage - very ahead of the times - and Sarah Grimké is my hero. These women were inspiration to the much more famous Harriet Beecher Stowe. I was so glad that Sue Monk Kidd discovered the history of these woman and introduced them through her book.

What I liked about Mudbound is it shed light for me into a different time and place - the segregated deep South - which I didn't realize initially. I thought the book was during slavery, which has been where most of my books have focused. So this was a first for me - and it really is such recent history.

[Srividya]

Oh yes we have our share of bonded labourers in India and that's the pity. It is always the poor and those from the castes, I mentioned who are often made to become bonded labourers, simply because they borrowed a paltry sum of money or for other reasons as well. It is a tough life for them, where despite having clear laws, there is nothing being done. What makes it worse is that people turn their eyes away from all this. They believe that if they did not acknowledge it, it wouldn't exist right? SO why bother acknowledging.. and in turn its the poor who suffer!

Thanks for sharing your personal struggle Sarah. True that about a bi-racial's mother or father being discounted completely from being a contributor to the child's race. It really irks me. I can only imagine the pain you must have felt when you experienced it for the first time and the anger that exists even today!


Again here in India, we have similar but not to that scale issues - Given that we are a huge nation with obvious diversity throughout, no two States share the same culture or even language. Woe to the people who marry another from another State. I did and I know just how cruel and mean prejudices can be. It has been 12 years and I am still asked to prove myself as to whether I am a worthy partner to my husband! Gah it bugs me so much!

Also we have another issue here - which is more due to the patriarchal system we practice. Here if the child is good in looks, intelligence and manners etc - well it is because his/her father is all that and more BUT dare the child make a single mistake or have a single flaw - Oh what can be done, it is the mother's fault! IT makes me SO MAD!!

I already have and on my TBR, will add the other two. I also love it when you recommend books. :)

[Stacie]

I love how this book has let people share stories. I'm learned a lot about other cultures and countries and it makes me angry just reading about it so living it, I can't even imagine.

[Margaret]

Stacie....I know! and two of my most favorite BRs buddies always seem to have the stories and the recommendations, I love it :) I agree, I couldn't imagine and I often wonder what it would be like where it is normal in a society and speaking up would be dangerous.